iPod ?'s

gmorris

Does anyone know anything about iPods?

I'm looking at eBay to get one, and the only question I have is will all 4 generations work with a Windows PC?

I have a Windows PC at home & at work. Is there a generation that will not work with Windows?

So far, the best deal seems to be a 10 or 15 Gig, 3'rd Gen. unit. I'm almost positive these will work with Windows.

Anyone have any info?

billbillw

I think since they came out with Itunes for Windows, all generations will work with a PC. I've been using a 2nd gen 20gig for almost 2 years. Originally I used MusicMatch, but since Itunes for Windows came out, I switched. It is much slicker and easier to use.

Edit: You will probably want to stick to 3rd gen or newer unless you have a firewire port on your PCs, otherwise you will have to buy a firewire PCI card. The newer generations use USB 2.0.
If you don't have USB 2.0 or firewire on your PCs, you will be faced with very slow upload/sync times. An upgrade will be worth your time

billbillw

I should also mention that Ipods don't like to be used with more than one computer. Stick with one computer for keeping your song collection and syncing with the Ipod.

gmorris

I have USB ports on my computer (I'll just use the PC here at work), but I don't know how to tell if it is 2.0.

Also, are you saying Gen. 1 & 2 will not work with the USB port? Only Gen. 3 & 4 work with USB? (Is the current generation "4"?)

And, why do you recommend only using 1 computer? I know NOTHING about iPods.

billbillw

Gen 1 and 2 Ipod have only a firewire (IEEE1394) connection. Newer gens have both firewire and USB 2.0 connection. USB 2.0 is backward compatible with older USB 1.1, but at a much slower transfer rate. I don't know exactly how to determine if your computers have 2.0 or not, but you can start by looking in your control panel, system, device manager. Look there and see if it says anything about USB 2.0 or High-Speed USB. (They are the same thing). If the computers are less than 3 years old, they almost certainly have USB2.0, but if they are older, there is a chance they don't. More than 4 years old won't have 2.0.

In my experience, my Ipod "knows" what computer it is hooked to and acts kinda fussy when I've tried connecting it to my other computer in the house. The newer gens/ (and newer software) may be different, but I can't say for sure. I haven't tried it since I converted to Itunes.

gmorris

Thanks for the help, billbillw.

As usual, you are my personal PC tech support specialist. Thanks....

I would assume the USB connection on my PC here at work is 2.0. Guess I'll find out.....

Anyway, I'm having a bear of a time getting an iPod off ebay. The darn auctions ALL end in huge bidding wars.

People are paying upwards of $200 for a 10 Gig unit (Gen. 3). I could get a 40 Gib pod for $300 right now at Best Buy. I think I may just get a brand new one. The dollar per gig is cheaper to get a brand new, 40 gig unit. I just didn't want to spend $300, but it is turning out to be the best "deal".

Spawndn72

I personally would not buy a used one. You just don't know wether the battery has been abused or not. And a new battery is time consuming and expensive.

gmorris

Originally posted by Spawndn72
I personally would not buy a used one. You just don't know wether the battery has been abused or not. And a new battery is time consuming and expensive.

Good point. I asked a guy here at work if he knew anything about iPods, and all he'd ever heard was the early ones had problems with the batteries. I had only been looking at Gen. 3, new in box items on eBay, so I probaby would have been alright, but point well taken.

billbillw

Originally posted by gmorris
Good point. I asked a guy here at work if he knew anything about iPods, and all he'd ever heard was the early ones had problems with the batteries. I had only been looking at Gen. 3, new in box items on eBay, so I probaby would have been alright, but point well taken.

Actually none of them really have "problems" with batteries, they just didn't last as long as people expected. They are lithium ion batteries and only good for about 500 charges. People who used theirs frequently, found that the batteries were not lasting very long after a year or so. There was recently a class action settlement regarding 1st, 2nd, and 3rd generation Ipod batteries. Apple now puts a disclaimer on battery life and offers technical explanations on lithium ion battery lives.

I would also recommend getting a new or refurbished one rather than used from Ebay. Popular items like Ipods always get caught up in bidding wars on Ebay. Apple sells refurbished Ipods directly from their website. I don't know if they can beat the 40gb for $300 though. They have full warranty. Search the Apple site for refurbished ipod.

unc2701

Apple lost a class action suit over the 2nd & 3rd gen's battery life time (they die, apple rapes you for a replacement), so you might not want to buy used 3rd gen. In fact, an Ipod is one of the few things i would NEVER get off ebay. There are too many of them out there an too many stupid people. I hate to say it, but just suck it up and buy it new.

+1 on them being bitchy working w/ more than one computer.

Don't assume USB 2.0- my work comp doesn't have it... to check, right click on "my computer->properties->hardware->device manager->USB controllers If it's 2.0 it'll say under there.

Or just google your mobo.

gmorris

Again, I was only looking at new items on eBay.

I was not aware of checking apple for a refurbed unit. Another good idea from billbillw, thanks again. I'll head over there right..... now.....

gmorris

WHOOOOOOOOOPS......:eek:

Mistake!!!!! It is a 20 gig iPod for $300......... sorry for any confusion....

unc2701

Oh... you can totally scam an educational discount on the apple webpage, too! gimme a minute to remember how to do that...

billbillw

Originally posted by gmorris
WHOOOOOOOOOPS......:eek:

Mistake!!!!! It is a 20 gig iPod for $300......... sorry for any confusion....

They have that for $250 refurbished. Have you considered the Ipod Mini? It is selling for around $150. Its about half the size but only holds 4gb. That is still enough for about 1000 songs. It depends on whether you want your entire music collection on yours.

unc2701

huh, they totally made it easier... just click on educational discount (lower left of the apple store webpage), pick a school in your area and the 20 gig is now $269.

Not even illegal if your kids are in school or someone in your family is a teacher/ staff.

gmorris

Originally posted by billbillw
They have that for $250 refurbished. Have you considered the Ipod Mini? It is selling for around $150. Its about half the size but only holds 4gb. That is still enough for about 1000 songs. It depends on whether you want your entire music collection on yours.

minis are a total ripoff....

a 20 gig unit selling at $300 = $15 per gig
a 4 gig unit selling at $150 = $37.50 per gig

looks like a no brainer to me.....

gmorris

Originally posted by unc2701
huh, they totally made it easier... just click on educational discount (lower left of the apple store webpage), pick a school in your area and the 20 gig is now $269.

Not even illegal if your kids are in school or someone in your family is a teacher/ staff.

kids??? I don't have any kids??? no one in my family is a teacher or staff member anywhere. I don't want to fuss with anything "illegal" to save $30 when I'm already spending $300, not worth it.


I would be willing to get a refurbed unit for $250, if I could find it on the damn website. Can someone send me a link to the refurbed, 20 gig pod? thanks.... i'm retarded...

unc2701

Originally posted by gmorris
kids??? I don't have any kids??? no one in my family is a teacher or staff member anywhere. I don't want to fuss with anything "illegal" to save $30 when I'm already spending $300, not worth it.

Lemme rephrase. You click the link, you say that you are somehow affiliated with education (student/ teacher/ staff/ janitor/ contractor/ tutor), you save $30. It can be at any university, community college, k-12, continuing ed, anything. They don't check up on this or really care and the definition is so broad, it's hard not to qualify for the discount. No brainer... might save you some on a refurb unit, too.

Anyhow, they don't always have all models in refurb, but if you don't see what you're looking for, they update daily.

billbillw

Yes, the mini is more per Gig, but that isn't the only thing you should look at. The physical size is smaller and its almost half the weight. Depends what you are looking for.

To find the refurbs, go to apple.com, click on the Store tab, enter the words "ipod refurbished" without the quotes. It will bring up all of the currently availiable items.
I'm still trying to figure out if non-click wheel means 3rd generation or what.

Edit: Figured it out. Non-click wheel is 3rd generation, Click wheel is current (4th generation).

michael_w

I believe that 1st generation ipods are mac only. I'd also reccomend n from a local store because my frieng went through 3 of them in two years due to them fritzing on him. The warranty saved his **** a few times...

Toxis

I have a 15g 3rd gen and love it. But when I got my free 4th gen, I gave it to my buddy (traded for my Denon dvd player actually), I kinda wish I would've let him have my 3rd and I could've kept the new one. Oh well...

I used to also use MusicMatch but god I hate that prog. iTunes is so much easier and better/faster. It not only is three times faster, but it will record up to 320kb where MM only let me go up to 160kb.

markmarc

I would get the biggest capacity you can afford, and ONLY download at the highest quality. Otherwise your just using new technology to listen to 1970-80's sound quality.

gmorris

Thanks to everyone for all the advice & help. I have decided, based on everyone's recommendations, to just bite the bullet and buy a brand new unit. I think I'm going to go to Best Buy and just get the 20 Gig iPod.

One last question, I checked the Device Manager, and the USB section does NOT say "high speed" or "2.0". I'm assuming this means the data transfer will just be slower, but will still work, right?

gmorris

here is what the Dev. Man. looks like:

billbillw

So you don't want to save $50 on the refurbished? The warranty is the same. Your choice though. I've never had a problem with refurbs.

About your computer.
It looks like you don't have USB 2.0 on that computer right now.
Give me the following info:
Computer Manufacturer, Model#, Operating System

Some of the older OS needed to install drivers to activate it. Also some early motherboards with USB2.0 didn't have them activated by default. If you give me the info above, I will check my resources and find out if you may have hidden USB 2.0 capability.

If you are restricted to USB1.1, it will still work, but you would be advised to get either a firewire card or USB 2.0 card because the data rate would be extremely slow otherwise.
To give you an idea, USB 1.1 is limited to 12Mbs whereas USB2.0 can go up to 450Mbs and Firewire is up to 400Mbs. That is more than 30x faster.

When you are talking about transferring multiple Gigabytes, the difference will be night and day. Even with firewire, mine can take 5-10 minutes to do a large transfer. To do a full 10-15 Gigabyte transfer would take more than 20 minutes. With USB1.1, that would take more than 10 hours.

Also keep in mind, that you will need free disk space on your computer to store these music files. You will keep an indentical collection on the computer and the Ipod syncs with that. For your 20GB Ipod, you will eventually need more than 20GB free space on your hard drive. Remember that most hard drives don't like being more than 75% full. It is really recommended to have a separate drive or partition for the music files to keep your program files from getting too fragmented.

gmorris

Billbill,

My PC is a Dell, running WinXP, but I don't know how to tell what model it is. Any ideas on how to tell?

I've already ripped all my entire CD collection into my PC. It takes ~6.20 Gb. I don't think it would be possible for me to upgrade to Firewire or USB 2.0, because this is my work PC. How long would you estimate it would take to upload 6.20 Gb to the pod with my USB connection?

billbillw

Look under the front flip up panel. There should be a service code, 6 digits or so. I can use that to figure out what syste you have. If you don't want to post that here, just PM me the code.

With regular USB, it would take several hours to upload all them to the Ipod.

gregure

Another thing to keep in mind with iPods, if no one's mentioned it yet, is that once they are formatted for PC or Mac, they cannot be reformatted for another type of computer. So make sure if you go used, that it was not used on a Mac, or you won't be able to use it.

gmorris

Well, i went out at lunch and bought a 20 Gb iPod. Brand new.

billbill, i don't have a flip up front panel, so..... any other place to look?

Also, i'm going to check the PC at home tonight to see if it has USB 2.0. If it does, i'll just use the PC at home.


Also, billbill, what did you mean when you said you iPod acted fussy when you tried connecting it to multiple computers?

unc2701

You can reformat them- it used to be a **** with the 1st gen ones (which is why a lot of people thought that they could only be used w/ macs), but it's not so bad now.

unc2701

Oh, and that chipset only does usb 1.1