Any quality headunits anymore??

PolkThug

Originally posted by MacLeod
I would much rather have one of the new Rockford Fosgate Power amps than one from yesteryear.

"Blasphemy!" -Punch 60ix

exalted512

Originally posted by spwuinmk67
What cody was trying to get at, is that even though the list price is $1280, it can be found at places like this for under $1000, which is within your budget. And if you wanted to really go nuts, you would get the DEQ-P9 to go with it, which is here .

youre losing a year of warranty with that place though because theyre not authorized.

On the other hand, I had one of my Diamond M6 midranges blow and I returned it. They said it was going to take 5-6 weeks to get it back to me because they didn't have the old models in stock. I emailed them back and asked if I could return the whole set for the new series. They said that was fine. Theyre a good company that offers a 1 year warranty through them. They're not quite as fast as an authorized dealer but they're still very good about doing whats right.
-Cody

MacLeod

Originally posted by PolkThug
"Blasphemy!" -Punch 60ix

LOL!

I still remember those badass Orion powerhouse amps that you had to have if youre were into SPL.

They would win you the competition, but then youd have to send it off to be serviced!

Toxis

1/2w x 2 that somehow would do 1000w at a 1/2 ohm load. Strange how they got banned from competition. I remember watching a "battle" between a 4w car and a 8w car. Nuts but funny how the 4w car won.

MacLeod

Yup. Phoenix Gold still does, or did the same thing up until just recently. Their Tantrum line of amps had rating of like 15x2, 25x2 but yet they were about a foot and a half long with 3 fuses! :rolleyes:

Crossfire and MTX are almost as bad. Every review Ive read on a Crossfire amp has it exceeding its 14 volt rating at 12 volts! And the new MTX amps are making nearly double their rated power according to the new Performance Auto and Sound mag. JL Audio is also guilty. Their E series 4 channel is rated at 45x4 and yet makes 80x4!!

1996blackmax

Originally posted by thehaens@cox.ne
I have a alpine 7998 and IMO it is the last and the best of the Alpine (except F1 Status units) units. I haven't had any problems with it. Unfortunately they don't have any passive design head units on the market right now....you can find this unit on the used market for about 3-400 about half of what the retail was...

I agree with your statement regarding this unit, the only thing is that the preouts on this thing are not the stated 4volts. I had this unit (twice) and the few times I switched between it and my Alpine CDA-7949 and PXA-H600 combo I would have to adjust my gains (these units were 4v as well). They would need to be turned down with the 7949/PXA-H600, and then up again with the 7998 (how could this be if both were 4volts). This happened with 2 different 7998's (I also owned 2 different 7949/PXA combos). Also the 7998 did not compare in SQ to the 7949/PXA-H600 setup. I tried for 2 years to tweak it, but it did no good. If it were not for the 7949 not reading CD-R's well, I would have kept this setup.

It is too bad that now days with Alpine you do not get a better head unit with the more money you put down for their HU's. You gain more features but nothing more in the way of SQ. At least with he 7998 they put in some better parts. I have owned Alpine HU's since the early 90's. This only changed recently when I finally sold my 7998 and bought my Eclipse CD8454. The Eclipse puts out more detailed sound than the 7998, period (this was very evindent from the moment I first powered it up). It sounds similar to my older combo. The Alpine is nicer looking, and is a little easier to use, but this is not what matters to me most. I wanted the best SQ I could get for my buck. I do not understand why Alpine continues to use their Regulated 1bit DAC's with their higher units. Why not go with the 24 bit DAC's like Eclipse, or at least the 20 bit Burr Brown DAC' that they used previously. It is sad to see that they have chosen a path that takes them away from making top notch HU's. For my next vehicle I will be going the Eclipse route once again, unless Alpine suddenly reverses it current trend, which I find highly unlikely from looking at theri current offerings..

bknauss

The amount of bits on the DAC are only a small part of the puzzle. Just because it has a larger number doesn't mean it will sound better. You have to have a good circuit around it to make it work well.

MacLeod

Originally posted by bknauss
The amount of bits on the DAC are only a small part of the puzzle. Just because it has a larger number doesn't mean it will sound better. You have to have a good circuit around it to make it work well.

What exactly is a bit?

PolkThug

Originally posted by MacLeod
What exactly is a bit?

Its what you put in the hooker's mouth so she can't scream.

thehaens@cox.net

Originally posted by 1996blackmax
I agree with your statement regarding this unit, the only thing is that the preouts on this thing are not the stated 4volts. I had this unit (twice) and the few times I switched between it and my Alpine CDA-7949 and PXA-H600 combo I would have to adjust my gains (these units were 4v as well). They would need to be turned down with the 7949/PXA-H600, and then up again with the 7998 (how could this be if both were 4volts). This happened with 2 different 7998's (I also owned 2 different 7949/PXA combos). Also the 7998 did not compare in SQ to the 7949/PXA-H600 setup. I tried for 2 years to tweak it, but it did no good. If it were not for the 7949 not reading CD-R's well, I would have kept this setup.

Interesting comment on the pre-outs, I haven't gone away from Alpine HU's. I just like the form factor of the Alpines, and don't have to open up a user manual to use them. I also have an older alpine eq on this to really dial in the sound as well as the bass management. I really don't like the eq that is on board the 7998. I'll have to take your advice and try the eclipse HU in my next set up. But I can assure you I will always use a passive design and stay away from any amp built in..

1996blackmax

My Eclipse HU is not passive, it has a built in amp. I too have stayed away from that, until now. Even with the built in amp that I do not use, the sound that this HU provides is better than the 7998.

I also stuck with Alpine for ease of use (after using there stuff for about 14 years you get use to it ), but SQ was the main thing for me. It is pretty sad to see the road that they have taken with their HU's, hopefully they will get back on track with their non F#1 stuff (which is outrageously over priced).

thehaens@cox.net

Originally posted by 1996blackmax
hopefully they will get back on track with their non F#1 stuff (which is outrageously over priced).

Agree, even ebay price is about 1500.......way out of my ball park, would like to hear it though, really see how much of a difference it is...

Toxis

I sold one back in the day (when I used to work for an Alpine retailer) and went from the Alpine 7965 deadhead to the F#1 and dear god. Sure made his BA Pro 6.53 components come to life.

exalted512

Originally posted by MacLeod
What exactly is a bit?

dac is digital analog converter, my pioneer has a 24 bit burr brown converter, generally, the more bits the better. as you know, music is analog, not digital. a bit is how much information you have per unit of time. this is not the most technical version in the world, but itll help you understand.

so say you have a song, and you take 5 bits of information per second. say you take the same song and take 24 bits of information per second. what would be the better sounding recording? the one with more.
-Cody

1996blackmax

Originally posted by Toxis
I sold one back in the day (when I used to work for an Alpine retailer) and went from the Alpine 7965 deadhead to the F#1 and dear god. Sure made his BA Pro 6.53 components come to life.

That is pretty much what I thought every time I put the 7949 & PXA-H600 back in (this setup was connected with a fiberoptic cable so that the signal was carried over to the processor in the digital domain and then converted to analog). The processor had four 20bit Burr Brown Sign Magnitude DAC's for the front and rear channels, and two of Alpine's Regulated 1bit DAC's for the subwoofer outputs. The difference in sound was pretty impressive. The sound was fuller and more detailed.

This unit seems to have very nice components inside. I would be very interested in listening to one. They are going in the high $700's on Ebay & $1,079.95 at Sounddomain after the discount.

http://www.clarion.com/usa/products/source_units/DRZ9255.html`

bknauss

Originally posted by exalted512
dac is digital analog converter, my pioneer has a 24 bit burr brown converter, generally, the more bits the better. as you know, music is analog, not digital. a bit is how much information you have per unit of time. this is not the most technical version in the world, but itll help you understand.

so say you have a song, and you take 5 bits of information per second. say you take the same song and take 24 bits of information per second. what would be the better sounding recording? the one with more.
-Cody

I thought CDs were 1 bit. I have been known to be wrong though...

exalted512

Originally posted by bknauss
I thought CDs were 1 bit. I have been known to be wrong though...

that seems highly doubtful, but im not positive
-Cody

aaharvel

"Rockford used to be one of the best companies in the industry and now their reputation is pathetic."

Same thing my friend's dad told me- he owns G&H car stereo in Wilkesboro, NC- he said that they used to be the best for amps but are now a joke. I'm not sure why- I had a Rockford 150 watt mono sub amp about 7years ago and LOVED it- but when my Legend got totaled it pretty much took the amp with it. =(

And as far as Alpine goes- i'm sorry but that IMO is the best brand in caraudio. Period. I have one of their headpieces and love it. It may look generic and something you could buy at Walmart- but the sound quality is incredible. Better than any Aiwa or Sony or Pioneer deck i've had. And worlds better than the Acura/Bose factory headunit.

I'm glad ALphine hasn't "gone to trash" like Rockford has- at least that's what i've been told anyway in regards to Rockford.

MacLeod

Rockford Fosgate's reputation may be lower than it was about 10 years ago but they are definitely not trash.

Their amps in particular are among the best on the market. They make tons of power, cleanly exceeding all their ratings and are built quite well.

Toxis

Originally posted by bknauss
I thought CDs were 1 bit. I have been known to be wrong though...

CD's are 16bit. HDCD's get up to 20 or 24 bit depending on the disk.

That's an impressive looking Clarion. I haven't thought about them for years. They went to the crapper about 4 years ago and forgot all about them. They had that voice control thing that never worked and was a total pain in the ****. But that's one hell of a clean looking radio with everything I'd want and more for a good price. Will definitely put that into consideration.

aaharvel

MacLeod that's what I thought too- and now everyone's saying different. My question is- why is their product taking a downturn in quality in the firstplace?

Toxis

It's easier to lower your quality and price to sell more units. That way you end up making more money at the end of the day, but you end up shitting all over your reputation.

1996blackmax

Originally posted by aaharvel

And as far as Alpine goes- i'm sorry but that IMO is the best brand in caraudio. Period. I have one of their headpieces and love it. It may look generic and something you could buy at Walmart- but the sound quality is incredible. Better than any Aiwa or Sony or Pioneer deck i've had. And worlds better than the Acura/Bose factory headunit.

I'm glad ALphine hasn't "gone to trash" like Rockford has- at least that's what i've been told anyway in regards to Rockford.

I will have to disagree with you on this one. At least for the head unit part of the company. While I do not believe their head units are trash by any means, they are not the top ones anymore. I have watched Alpine become more of a mainstream company leaving behind one of the main things that got it to where it is now, great sounding head units/processors. My old setup from 1998/1999 will blow away anything they have now, except for their horribly over priced F#1 stuff, this is pretty sad. The Eclipse HU I have now owns my previous Alpine, which was a CDA-7998. If you check this was the last Alpine unit that used "premium components", they just did not add the premium Digital to Analog Converters (DAC's). They are now offering one unit with 4v preouts, the other ones are only 2volts (this is for the single din HU's). Sure they are giving you many features, but where is the great SQ that they used to be known for? Pioneer uses better DAC's (24bit Burr Browns) than Alpine in their upper end decks, so does Eclipse (24bit Delta Sigma DAC's), as well as other companies. Alpine is still sticking to the same DAC that you get from their entry level HU to their higher end stuff (Regulated 1bit DAC's). I like getting more features, but not at the cost of SQ. Alpine has chosen the path of doing more with their HU's. This is great, but what about also providing better internal components for the added price. I really liked Alpine and wish that they would come back around. Who the heck needs the Glidetouch stuff, from what I've read it is more trouble than anything else. Just check around the web, or Crutchfields site regarding this. I myself have messed around with it many times and prefer the actual buttons instead.


Do yourself a favor and try auditioning other HU's. I use to feel the same way about Alpine as you. A while ago I tried one of Pioneer's upper end ones and thought the sound coming out of it was better than my 7998 or 7894. I just thought that it was too flashy and not as easy to use. Also give Eclipse a listen, not the prettiest HU's around, but well worth the money for the features and great SQ.

1996blackmax

Originally posted by Toxis
It's easier to lower your quality and price to sell more units. That way you end up making more money at the end of the day, but you end up shitting all over your reputation.

That is exactly what has been happening with Alpine's head units.

aaharvel

hmm.. that's interesting. my HU is from 2001 or something like that- so yeah i'll look into Eclipse (?) whenever I upgrade again- not anytime soon. Thanks.

PolkThug

Originally posted by Toxis
That's an impressive looking Clarion. I haven't thought about them for years.

Heh, I remember when we swapped out our 8-track for a Clarion knobber. It kiced ****, it had a tape search function that was rare at the time (I was in grade school then). Maybe I'll have to give them another look.

bknauss

Originally posted by 1996blackmax
That is exactly what has been happening with Alpine's head units.

Let's get something straight... Alpine hasn't exactly been lowering their quality. They might be taking away features from the upper lines that very few people ever use (like digital out), but their quality, at least in my experience and from Polk's experience, is that they're definitely a great head unit. If anything, they've improved some things like skipping ridiculously on lightly scratched CDs.

swerve

my 9831 is fine... sometimes it gets on my nerves but i don't know what i would replace it with...

1996blackmax

Originally posted by bknauss
Let's get something straight... Alpine hasn't exactly been lowering their quality. They might be taking away features from the upper lines that very few people ever use (like digital out), but their quality, at least in my experience and from Polk's experience, is that they're definitely a great head unit. If anything, they've improved some things like skipping ridiculously on lightly scratched CDs.

Well, they sure have not been going up in quality.


I have never had issues with lightly scratched CD's with my Alpine's. My 7949 did not like CD-R's, but it did not have issues with skipping. I actually had two of these HU's. We currently have a 7894 in our other car.

If you read around many people think that the MX (Media Expander) function is not worth having. I just left it off as it did not make the music sound any nicer. They should just pay what ever royalties they need to pay BBE and keep using them on their higher end units, as this processing circuit actually does make the music sound nicer.


I think Alpine has actually been adding more features than taking away, but I wish they would add better internal components as well. Where are their premium power supply input and output capacitors they last used on the 7998? I do not think of the preouts as "features". Why go from 4v to 2v's ? My Eclipse that cost less than the 7998 and a little more than their top one right now has 8v at 55ohms, and these are true 8v's.

To me the 7998 would have been a great head unit had they opted to put better DAC's in it. They do make a big difference in SQ. I would have over looked their lower than advertised 4v preouts for this.

The thing is that now days you can get better sound for about the same or a little more money than what Alpine is offering. I do hope they get back to where they use to be in the world of aftermarket HU's. I think they make nice looking head units, with nice features, and they are easy to use (I believe easier to use than my Eclipse and the Pioneer I tried out). They have just not kept up with everyone else in the market. Many companies are moving upward and forward with better internal components that do make a difference in SQ, where Alpine seems to be stagnant. If they do decide to make upper end HU's that are in the same ball park as Eclipse in SQ and in the similar price range, I would go back to them in a hearbeat. Till then I am sticking to the HU that sounds close to what my old Alpine setup sounded like .

MacLeod

Originally posted by aaharvel
MacLeod that's what I thought too- and now everyone's saying different. My question is- why is their product taking a downturn in quality in the firstplace?

Their product isnt taking a downturn, its just perceived as such. I guarantee ya, if RF never went into Best Buy they would still have a lot of prestige. But whenever a company gets into mass marketing its looked at as sub par gear.

Take MTX for example. A Circuit City brand right? MTX amps are among the best built, most powerful and all around excellent amps on the market! Yet theyre considered simply a department store amp.

Now that Circuit City is carrying Kicker, does that mean that Kicker is no longer any good?

Im all for mass marketing. If manufacturers like Polk, Alpine, RF and Kicker mass market they sell a lot more and 9 times out of 10 they turn that success into more and better products than they already have (i.e. the new Polk Sig line).

Also, Ive had a 9807 for 2 years now and its operated flawlessly. I think their head units are the best out there and their V12 series of amps are just about my favorite on the market.