Any quality headunits anymore??

Toxis

I know the industry as a whole is headed downhill faster than a young girl on a rapper backstage, but what's the deal? Amps, speakers and subs... still many brands of very high end units out there for the true audiophile (aka, the people who don't give a damn how pretty it looks or how much chrome it has). So why is it that the headunit industry has gone to ****? Seriously. Nakamichi is junk now, Alpine is in Best Buy and Eclipse is just damn ugly. I don't want to hear anything about Kenwood or Pioneer. We all know they're really not high end. Premier is the same thing as Pioneer when back in the day, they were actually better. I just don't understand how speaker and amplifier companies can obviously still make it when there isn't a good source unit out there anymore. Anyone else find this strange? Hell, the deck is almost as important as the speakers IMO (not counting placement/tuning).

I love my Nak CD-45Z, but it has the damn factory defect of not playing CD's. I bought it off the Nak rep so there's no warranty. WTF??? So I'm stuck listening to my iPod through the Aux in and we all know how booty the iPod sounds. I hate the current market.

Polk has been slowly getting into the electronics world. PLEASE COME UP WITH A QUALITY DECK THAT DOESN'T SCREAM RETARDED!

Thom

Originally posted by Toxis
...Alpine is in Best Buy...

What's that got to do with quality?

PolkThug

Originally posted by Thom
What's that got to do with quality?

Maybe nothing, but I think of "MASS production", cutting corners, overrating vs. underrating.

Originally posted by Toxis
Polk has been slowly getting into the electronics world. PLEASE COME UP WITH A QUALITY DECK THAT DOESN'T SCREAM RETARDED!

Hmm, Polk HU could kick it up a notch maybe with Burr Brown DAC's?

exalted512

I personally think youre crazy
-Cody

bknauss

Originally posted by PolkThug
Maybe nothing, but I think of "MASS production", cutting corners, overrating vs. underrating.

It has nothing to do with mass production, cutting corners, or anything like that. Alpine has made quality stuff for years, and just because they have a huge buyer in BB doesn't mean they're making crap product. I'd worry about smaller companies being persuaded by BB to change the quality, but not Alpine.

As for the original post, Pioneer still makes some good stuff, especially the P9 combo.

Don't hold your breath on a head unit.... my gut feeling is there isn't much money to be made as a company just breaking into that area of the market.

Thom

Originally posted by PolkThug
Maybe nothing, but I think of "MASS production", cutting corners, overrating vs. underrating.

Because they aren't used to moving TONS of units already with CC, Crutchfield, etc? I don't think the BB switch will put much more of a strain on them...

PolkThug

Originally posted by Thom
Because they aren't used to moving TONS of units already with CC, Crutchfield, etc? I don't think the BB switch will put much more of a strain on them...

I wasn't singling out BB; CC and Crutchfield were also in my thoughts associated with my generic response.

For example, if SVS went this route, I would question if their products could keep up the quality, and could their suppliers could keep up the quality. If TC Sounds had to provide them with 1000 drivers at a time, instead of 50, would a few more bad apples squeak through? Would some corners be cut to meet the demand?

Jstas

WOW! Asshattery at it's best!

Hey, what's the awful smell? Oh, sorry, it's Toxis talking out of his ****.





The industry is not "headed downhill faster than a young girl on a rapper backstage" and it is obvious that you are completely out of touch with the "industry" to begin with to be making the comments that you have. I'd try to form a decent argument but it's just going to be a waste of time to argue with an individual of such insight.


As for Polk Audio, stay out of the head unit business. There are companies out there that have been doing it much, much longer and are honestly better. It's not a place you can make money unless you have a line that is several models deep. Bad idea. Stick with speakers and amplifiers. Maybe a crossover or two but head units are not in a realm you want to play in.



Lastly, Alpine has been making large volumes of equipment for years. They are absolutly huge in Europe and Japan where they have pretty much dominated the market since they rolled on to the scene. They still make very nice stuff and if you actually looked at the line up, you'd see that looks are secondary because they use the same faceplate for every model. They just add buttons where needed. Beyond that, if you knew how many parts Alpine, Pioneer, Kenwood, Eclipse and so on actually share, you'd soil yourself. I've looked at replacement parts recently to fix an old Kenwood head unit that I have and I was quite surprised to see how many part numbers in the Kenwood catalog had cross-references to Pioneer, Alpine, Eclipse and even Panasonic part numbers. The concept of quality based on brand name is a misnomer.


I don't know what the basis is of these comments that have come from left field but they are way off base.

thehaens@cox.net

I have a alpine 7998 and IMO it is the last and the best of the Alpine (except F1 Status units) units. I haven't had any problems with it. Unfortunately they don't have any passive design head units on the market right now....you can find this unit on the used market for about 3-400 about half of what the retail was...

exalted512

now that i have more time, ill reply a little better.
first off, my first post still stands-from what i read here, you have no idea what youre talking about.

since when is nakamichi junk? thats a new one on me.

alpine sells at best buy, so what?? Polk sells at Circuit City, from your standards, that means Polk sucks too.

Pioneer and Kenwood not really high end? Are you kidding me? I'd put some of Pioneers decks against any others in the world. I have the deh-p940 which when i bought it was one of the better decks in car audio. it still is actually.

Polk does not need to make head units. their amplifiers arent even doing that good, i highly doubt it would be financially beneficial to have a line of head unit. besides, the whole jack of all trades, master of none applies here.

and finally, newbies actually DO read this forum. Please dont confuse them with all this **** youre spreading

-Cody

Toxis

Yes Nakamichi is far from the deck they used to be. Hell, the rep who has dealt with them for 5 years (that I know of, could be more) even says their quality has dropped dramatically.

The reason I say Alpine made a bad mistake is because everyone thinks of BB as low end. By going into BB is kind of running your name in the mud. Sure CC and Crutchfield sell them but combined, they don't touch the numbers that BB does a year so they're almost trying to double their sales a year. If you honestly don't think that's going to affect their quality, you're naive. Period. If Polk went to BB, I'd be extremely disappointed and would have the same thoughts then. Case and point... Rockford Fosgate. They even tried sending different product to them at first but then it all became the same mass marketed junk. Rockford used to be one of the best companies in the industry and now their reputation is pathetic. It'll take them a decade or more to even come close to what they were 7-10 years ago.

The reason I said what I said about the industry as a whole is because the majority is by far more interested in how stuff looks/how loud it is compared to when they used to give a damn about how it sounded. It's all about Audiobahn, Memphis, Visonik and other pawn shop quality equipment these days. I know there's still a lot of quality brands out there (from Polk to Zapco to Tru to Focal etc etc) but seriously, it's headed down hill. I have yet to miss a USACi finals here in Kansas City and have watched the trends and where everything's going. I'm not speaking out of my ****, I'm speaking from someone who has been in the hobby for over 12 years and working in it for the past 6+. Just because a lot of people here only care about the high end brands does NOT mean that's what the masses like/want. Step outside your bubble and you might be shocked.

Done.

bknauss

Cody - Nak has a history of late of falling apart and needing repair. I wouldn't believe one or two people complaining, but I've heard it too many times to even consider buying a Nak HU. Pretty sad since they make everything I want in a head unit... something that plays, changes volume, can get a radio signal, and doesn't look flashy as hell.

PolkThug

Originally posted by Toxis
The reason I said what I said about the industry as a whole is because the majority is by far more interested in how stuff looks/how loud it is compared to when they used to give a damn about how it sounded.

We definitely live in a different time now.

Have you seen the new MTX amps that change colors when the bass hits?

The teenagers think they're cool, I think they're horrid.

Toxis

not to mention how but ugly the design of the amp is anyway. I am kinda digging the MTX 7500 series subs though. Ever since they got away from the Blue Thunder line of amps, I wouldn't even look at them as an option.

Toxis

ok for everyone who thinks I'm such an idiot... find me a quality radio with damn fine preouts and a very simple display (aka I don't want an LCD screen). Price under $1000.

swerve

Solution:

If nothing is good enough for you... buy a new car that you can't replace the HU.... get a line output converter and be done with it.



surely there is something out there good enough you are just being stubborn.

Or how about you look for an older model you liked?

Just because it's 1-2 years old don't mean it's junk... it can most likely stack up to the Junk you are talking about now.

coldrealms

I'm not seeing where having and lcd or other nice looking display equate to a poor quality deck. By that logic the old IBM display writer "computer" (mainly a typwriter with a drive) is better quality then modern computers, or pong consoles better then say a PS2 or XBOX, or .. well you get the point.
I hate to use this saying but "don't judge a book by it's cover"

If you want old AND ugly equiptment thats your choice but for the rest of humanity there are plenty of good decks with great sound and a nice display.


"Any bets that his wife/GF/ boyfriend is old and fat and he just prefers old and ugly all around?"

swerve

Originally posted by Toxis
ok for everyone who thinks I'm such an idiot... find me a quality radio with damn fine preouts and a very simple display (aka I don't want an LCD screen). Price under $1000.

I bet it's too the point where whatever we rec. there will be something wrong with it. Personal Pref. goes a long way in this industry and for people like us that really sucks. Because not everyone can be educated on what's hot and what's not in online forums. Hell if I made amps that changed color... and the youngins liked them and bought them... I'd keep doing it because god knows those LED's are way cheaper than good components

-adam

Toxis

you're showing your ignorance than. Displays like that emit noise into the system. Not to mention, that's the reason why people have their cars broken into. Over 3 years ago, I did the whole monitor and dvd combo thing and my entire car was stolen for that. I'm into simple and clean. I never said ugly and old. This is what I'm talking about. People love/want these displays that do absolutely nothing for the SOUND of your system. It has a retarded screen that displays cars driving or a snow skiier or retarded designs moving all around. BIG DEAL! What's wrong with having a stock looking radio that sounds amazing?

swerve

Originally posted by Toxis
you're showing your ignorance than. Displays like that emit noise into the system. Not to mention, that's the reason why people have their cars broken into. Over 3 years ago, I did the whole monitor and dvd combo thing and my entire car was stolen for that. I'm into simple and clean. I never said ugly and old. This is what I'm talking about. People love/want these displays that do absolutely nothing for the SOUND of your system. It has a retarded screen that displays cars driving or a snow skiier or retarded designs moving all around. BIG DEAL! What's wrong with having a stock looking radio that sounds amazing?

No... If I WERE THE ONE MAKING THESE PRODUCTS... I would be making them for what's going to catch the target markets eye. And unfortunately it's not the people who love quality products anymore... it's the moron kids who want purple **** lights flashing about... therefore... i know i will make more money off these artfuck children than the people who really care.
I have an alpine 9831 and I love it, nothing too flashy or complicated... sure you have alot of colors to choose from but whatever.

am I ignorant for saying I'd be marketing and manufacturing similiar products? I don't think so.... it's about the $$$ anymore.... which isn't right... but it is the truth.

-adam moore

Toxis

I was actually replying to coldrealms... not you swerve.

swerve

damn so much for heated arguments that lead into passionate sex.

-adam



..... sorry had to say it. :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:

Toxis

I'll bring the astroglide

thehaens@cox.net

This thread has got great entertainment value.........

exalted512

http://pioneerelectronics.com/pna/product/detail/0,,2076_4041_34724,00.html
retails for $1280, but my deck retailed for $900 and I got it authorized for $550
google it;)
-Cody

Toxis

$550? I found it refurbished for $399 but nowhere for $550

MacLeod

I disagree that the industry is going downhill but I can see where Toxis is coming from.

Back in the day, most quality parts had absolutley no flash at all. Now its all about chrome and neon. Thats due to teeneagers having more disposable income then we did back in the 80's. The audio industry realizes this and the fact that teenie-boppers want big, cool systems so they market to them. The results are that the audio industry is selling more and making more money.

This is a good thing because when an industry grows, their products get better!

Take the MTX amps mentioned above. Yeah theyve got neon but they also make nearly twice their rated power CLEANLY with tons of features and great build quality. All this for around $300.

With the increased success and competition, the technology has gotten better and more effecient. I would much rather have one of the new Rockford Fosgate Power amps than one from yesteryear.

In fact, I would put any of todays gear up against anything from the past.

I can understand why purists hate when a brand gets too mainstream like JL or RF but overall, its great for the industry as a whole, and the consumer.

Toxis

sorry but I'll take an old Rockford 200ix over a bd1000 any day of the week. Look at Kicker. They totally threw away all quality the first year they went to a retarded **** square sub (which sounds like **** IMO). It's stuff like that in which I'm refering.

MacLeod

Dont get me wrong. Im not knocking the old school gear. I got into this stuff back in the 80's so thats the stuff I grew up with.

My point isnt that the newer stuff is necessarily better but that it has more value. You can get better gear with more features for less money now than you could.

exalted512

Originally posted by Toxis
$550? I found it refurbished for $399 but nowhere for $550

no no no, not the one i listed, MY deck. I was just giving an example that it retailed for $890 but I purchased it for $550 authorized. Hint being that its $280 over your $1k budget, but I'm sure you can get it for less
-Cody

spwuinmk67

What cody was trying to get at, is that even though the list price is $1280, it can be found at places like this for under $1000, which is within your budget. And if you wanted to really go nuts, you would get the DEQ-P9 to go with it, which is here .