My LSi9's are here... first impressions.

OrangeToupee

No need to apologize, Joe, I like reading your posts and opinions; it's unfortunate that people have to take things so personal that they resort to calling names. Having said that, I really appreciated CrazyHead's post regarding amps, and have taken notes so that when the time comes to purchase some seperates, I'll be able to use that for reference. I didn't appreciate him calling you a troll though, I think that's ridiculous.

dean/klipschead

ole joe just tryin to keep us all on our toes

we all be trolls deep down

CrazyHead

Originally posted by OrangeToupee
I didn't appreciate him calling you a troll though, I think that's ridiculous.

I called nobody a troll. I used a verb, "trolling".

troll
v. trolled, troll·ing, trolls

To fish for by trailing a baited line from behind a slowly moving boat.

Joe's post sounded like he was trolling: throwing out something to bait people into a discussion.


-crazyhead-

madmax

I don't take well to trolling but don't consider it to be name calling either. Joe just suggested that we need tubes to filter out the harshness created by our bad setups. I personally like the EL-34 filter the best but that is just because that is the only one I have any experience with. How much for those boxing gloves?
madmax

nascarmann

Well, looks like they are not needed now!

Troy LaMont

I'd say that you may want to try other amp options as others have suggested.

When I auditioned the LSi15s, I thought that the clarity was outstanding. This was based on comparisions with other high end speakers and components including B&W 802s bi-amped with Classe amps, Thiels 2.3s ran by a Krell amp, Martin Logan Prodigy's ran by Chiro amps and Aerial Acoustics 10t's ran by Rotel and Krell amps.

Also as Dean stated;

tube amps do best with speakers that present an easy load. It's possible the LSi9 is choking off the Jolida.

4 Ohm @ 88dB isn't an easy speaker at all to drive and whether you use tube or solid state, your amp has to be up to the task of driving less sensitive speakers with low impedence.

Other than that, I would allow more time for a good break in as well.

Have fun!

Troy
(My initial in-store review of the LSi15s)

rskarvan

Troy,

Did you really think the LSi15's were superior to the Thiel 2.3/Krell combo? I am especially interested in the overall clarity/transparency of the speaker. I like to hear every last detail of the CD. You say the LSi9's were superior? Serious?
Wow.

Troy LaMont

rskarvan,

I didn't say they were superior, I said

I thought that the clarity was outstanding...

Meaning that they were no slouch when compared to higher end speakers and components, especially given the price point.

My dream system is the Aerial Acoustics 10t's (or 8b's), CC3b center and the SR3 surrounds driven by a Lexicon MC12 and probably a Theta or Krell amp. But that's in the vinicity of $40,000 and as much so a dream!

Troy

joe logston

i guess high end is still here, wend i said soming they didnt like sh** hit the fan, and they all came out, to bad they didnt stay they should come back i have no hard feelings i like it i thank it was fun hell life is boring enought , we can lean from them to.

thanks

joe logston

i listen to the aerial acoustics at the ces 3 yrs ago i didnt like them, i dont know if they improved them sence, but the klipsch rf-9 i listen to last saterday, where more dynamic and had cleaner highs, the bottem end was good though, klipsch had a edge on them. the klipsch where set up real good for 2 channel, the aerial was not.

CrazyHead

Originally posted by Troy LaMont
4 Ohm @ 88dB isn't an easy speaker at all to drive and whether you use tube or solid state, your amp has to be up to the task of driving less sensitive speakers with low impedence.

Sure, this is true. However, the JoLida has both 8-ohm and 4-ohm outputs. Volume pot is turned about 1/4 of the way around for normal listening and it's got plenty of guts to push the LSi9's farther than I can stand listening.

I did replace the Svetlana 6550 output tubes with Svetlana EL34 output tubes today. However, I need to change a few resistors in order to get the EL34's to bias properly. Thankfully, the swap will allow me to bias for both the 6550's and EL34's so I can roll them when I feel like it. However, even at this early stage with the bias way too cool, they make the LSi9's sound a LOT different and a LOT better, IMO.

More to come as this saga unfolds...


-crazyhead-

madmax

CrazyHead,
Just interested in what differences you will achieve by changing from 6550's to EL-34's? I'm new to this tube stuff and have EL-34's in my Jolida. Just wondering.
Thanks,
madmax

CrazyHead

Originally posted by madmax001
CrazyHead,
Just interested in what differences you will achieve by changing from 6550's to EL-34's? I'm new to this tube stuff and have EL-34's in my Jolida. Just wondering.
Thanks,
madmax

The 502 is the only amp that accepts 6550's... I am not sure if the 302 can accept 6550's with the resistor swap. You might want to call JoLida and ask.

Anyway, to answer your question... I did put the EL34's in however they will not bias properly without the resistor swap. They will only bias to about 15-20mv whereas 40mv is needed. At any rate, even running them this cool, I did notice that the midrange was much, much thicker than the 6550's... the 6550's sound great, don't get me wrong -- they are a much more neutral tube and have tighter bass with more impact. The EL34's have less bass punch and a slight (very, very slight) roll-off on the highs. This does not bother the Vifa's in the LSi9's one bit.

The LSi9's sound more lush with the EL34's than the 6550's. It's a better sound as it stands now and I am anxious to get the new resisters into the amp (they arrive tomorrow) and bias the EL34's properly. The EL34's also need about 100 hours of break-in to really open up, just as the 6550's did.

What are you using for 12AX7's and 12AT7's in your Jo?


-crazyhead-

madmax

CrazyHead,
I'm still trying to find the best tube setup as I have only had the amp for about 2 months. Right now I have 5751 jan GE's in place of the 12ax7's and I believe Phillips 12at7's. The el-34's are Svetlana but they came with a few sets of new Chineese tubes and a pair of the tesla blue glass tubes. I just got a second 302a off of e-bay and have been too busy trying to get them in a good bi-amp mode to figure out which tubes sound best. I found out that if you hook grounds together on a single amp you have no problem but when you start messing with two of them you can run into problems with grounds. (with the SDA cable). I found the ground problem while checking the bias. With the two grounds tied together the bias of one of the channels jumps up to 120mv! (I'm glad I caught that quickly) I'm afraid I'm still in the learning phase.
madmax

CrazyHead

Originally posted by madmax001
I'm still trying to find the best tube setup as I have only had the amp for about 2 months. Right now I have 5751 jan GE's in place of the 12ax7's and I believe Phillips 12at7's. The el-34's are Svetlana but they came with a few sets of new Chineese tubes and a pair of the tesla blue glass tubes.

Nifty! I would recommend trying out a pair of the current production Ei 12AX7/ECC83's... they are a direct copy of the original Telefunken smoothplates. Ei bought the Telefunken equipment, you see. Only true NOS snobs will pay $200 for genuine Telefunkens. The Ei's have 99% of the Telefunken sound quality at 1/10th the price. You can get a matched pair for $15 each ($30 per pair) from www.thetubestore.com or from Triode Electronics for $18 for a matched pair at www.triodeel.com. They really are fantastic preamp tubes!

(I claim zero responsibility for anything that happens as a result of you trying these mods out!)

I got my new resistors this morning from Digi-Key. I ordered a set of 13.5k-ohm 5-watt wire wounds. 5-watt is overkill but I wanted to be safe. Anyway, I stuck them in around noon. The mod was really quite simple: replace R14 and R15 with the 13.5k's on both channels (which means there are R14/R15 for both left and right channels). That's all it takes. EL34's bias at 40mv now, 6550's can be biased up properly at 50mv. Everybody is happy!

Just *remember*: when you pull your EL34's out, turn the bias all the way down to zero BEFORE you put the 6550's in. The 6550's will have much lower resistance... if you forget, you may risk blowing your 6550's since 40mv for EL34 would be probably 200mv for the 6550's. Ooops!

If you do the mod, be sure to try the Ei KT90 type-3 power tubes. They are drop-in replacements for the 6550/KT88 and they add more bass punch and extended highs. Some people say the KT90 is the best power tube in the 6550 family.

You might want to call JoLida and make sure that the 302B is capable of this mod. It is my understanding that the only difference between the two amps are the resistors... 22k-ohm factory for the 502, 10k-ohm factory for the 302. By using a 13.5k-ohm, you can bias for both power tube types.

Have fun! And don't say I didn't warn you: because I have.


-crazyhead-

ttrentt

CrazyHead wrote:

Nifty! I would recommend trying out a pair of the current production Ei 12AX7/ECC83's... they are a direct copy of the original Telefunken smoothplates. Ei bought the Telefunken equipment, you see. Only true NOS snobs will pay $200 for genuine Telefunkens. The Ei's have 99% of the Telefunken sound quality at 1/10th the price. You can get a matched pair for $15 each ($30 per pair) from www.thetubestore.com or from Triode Electronics for $18 for a matched pair at www.triodeel.com. They really are fantastic preamp tubes!

(I claim zero responsibility for anything that happens as a result of you trying these mods out!)

I got my new resistors this morning from Digi-Key. I ordered a set of 13.5k-ohm 5-watt wire wounds. 5-watt is overkill but I wanted to be safe. Anyway, I stuck them in around noon. The mod was really quite simple: replace R14 and R15 with the 13.5k's on both channels (which means there are R14/R15 for both left and right channels). That's all it takes. EL34's bias at 40mv now, 6550's can be biased up properly at 50mv. Everybody is happy!

Just *remember*: when you pull your EL34's out, turn the bias all the way down to zero BEFORE you put the 6550's in. The 6550's will have much lower resistance... if you forget, you may risk blowing your 6550's since 40mv for EL34 would be probably 200mv for the 6550's. Ooops!

If you do the mod, be sure to try the Ei KT90 type-3 power tubes. They are drop-in replacements for the 6550/KT88 and they add more bass punch and extended highs. Some people say the KT90 is the best power tube in the 6550 family.

You might want to call JoLida and make sure that the 302B is capable of this mod. It is my understanding that the only difference between the two amps are the resistors... 22k-ohm factory for the 502, 10k-ohm factory for the 302. By using a 13.5k-ohm, you can bias for both power tube types.

Have fun! And don't say I didn't warn you: because I have.

Digging up from the dead, is this mod still working out? I don't understand why you said to "call Jolida" and ask if the mod works if you did the modification.

ttrentt

ttrentt wrote:

Digging up from the dead, is this mod still working out? I don't understand why you said to "call Jolida" and ask if the mod works if you did the modification.

Instead of editing, just replying, I think I got this backwards. You have a 502 that you modded to use the tubes of the 302 (EL34s)

I have a 302 and just looking into mods, and interested in the switch to the 6550s.

Right?

beardog03

you should try the best of both worlds...Solid State amp/tube pre amp..

Ya get all the punch of SS and all the beauty of tubes..!!