What is your goal?

Spawndn72

All this talk about cables and wether they sound different or not has got me questioning a few things. I was/am under the assupmtion that the ultimate goal of most audiophiles was to have the music coming from their sound sytem to sound exactly like the music they would hear if the musicians where right there with them playing live. The closer your system sounds to live music the "better" your sound system was.

So is this the case? When you say that one cable sounds better than another cable. Are you saying that it sounds more like the live music, or are you just saying that it sounds better?

I asked this in a different thread but no one responded so I will ask it again here. Is it possible that the really expensive cables are actually coloring your sound in the same way an EQ would? And if that is what is happening, is this really what you would want?

Early B.

I was/am under the assupmtion that the ultimate goal of most audiophiles was to have the music coming from their sound sytem to sound exactly like the music they would hear if the musicians where right there with them playing live. The closer your system sounds to live music the "better" your sound system was.

That's partly true, but most live music sounds horrible.

jdhdiggs

I'll take a different tack.. I want a system that sounds the best it can to me and lets me enjoy the music without any hangups.

I agree with early on the second part. Most live music sounds attrocious.

steveinaz

Originally posted by Spawndn72
So is this the case? When you say that one cable sounds better than another cable. Are you saying that it sounds more like the live music, or are you just saying that it sounds better?

That's the funny thing about the cable debate, everybody has there own perception of how music should sound. It's not that 1 cable is better than another, in a qualitative sense, but more about how a given cable sounds in your particular system, and its' subtle signature, IMO.

In my specific preferences, I like cables that many feel sound a little "thin" or lean in the bass region---I like solid, but not overdone bass---so that signature fits the perception/preference of how I want my system to sound. Cables give you a way of fine tuning your overall sound, albeit subtle in my opinion. Though some feel they make no difference--to each his own.

Early B.

Similar to what jd said, I want my system to sound as good as it can possibly sound to my ears. Now if you ask me to define that, well... I dunno. I'd use meaningless phrases like sufficient detail, soundstage, imaging, air, tonality, etc. All I can tell you is I know what I like when I hear it, and that's the best I can do. What cables I use to get that sound are important, but so are the speakers, amps, tubes, power cords, capacitors, resistors, etc.

VR3

My 'goal' is to enjoy my system...

Now that I enjoy my system...my goal is to remove 'weak links'

bikezappa

spawndn72

Good question!!!

Way back when, when people went to live classical music the goal was to reproduce the sound of the music players in the hall you were in. I live in Boston so going to the BSO was a great experience. When you got a recording of the BSO you could compare the recording to your real live experience in the BSO. The BSO Hall's accoustic are one of the best in the world. This comparison would be affected by the recording engineer and the quality of your system. Simple. How you can compare you system to a live rock show is anyones guess because not much attention is paid to the accoustics.

For you interest.

Mono was the like standing and listening on the entrance steps of the BSO.

Stereo was like standing and listening in the lobby of the BSO with the doors open.

DTS may be like sitting in the BSO.

I suggest you go the symphony and listen to music from that conductor in that hall that is also released on CD and make your own comparison.

There will be a BIG differance in sound I predict.

Have a blast

Peter

RuSsMaN

Sweet! Another non-cable, cable thread!

Spawndn72

All this talk about thing-a-ma-jigs and wether they sound different or not has got me questioning a few things. I was/am under the assupmtion that the ultimate goal of most audiophiles was to have the music coming from their sound sytem to sound exactly like the music they would hear if the musicians where right there with them playing live. The closer your system sounds to live music the "better" your sound system was.

So is this the case? When you say that one thing-a-ma-jig sounds better than another thing-a-ma-jig. Are you saying that it sounds more like the live music, or are you just saying that it sounds better?

I asked this in a different thread but no one responded so I will ask it again here. Is it possible that the really expensive thing-a-ma-jigs are actually coloring your sound in the same way an EQ would? And if that is what is happening, is this really what you would want?

There you go Russ. Edited for you. You can now read it and not be totally disgusted.

bikezappa

If you never go to live concerts then it may not matter to you how accurate your system sounds. If you have no live reference, how do you know how a violin sounds, the singing voice or an acoustic guitar when you play these tunes on your system?

Spawn you are very correct to ask - does my new burned in cable make the sound more like the live the event I attended. Or does my #399 speaker wire make me feel that if I close my eyes I could imgine I was there.

If you don't attend live music how do you know what your system is supposed to sound like?

In my experience the recording engineer has much more control over the sound you hear in your system than any set of speaker wires or cables.

Great recordings of the BSO by a good recording engineer almost allow you to close you eyes and imagine you are there. You can here the sound reflecting off the side and back walls.

I used to look for the recording engineer and conductor when buying records, not much any more however.

I guess the aswer to your question depends on the type of live music you listen to.

Maybe you should consider attending a concert of your favorite music. The problem is that most all concerts are played with electronic amplification which as we know colors the music. Try to attend any live music without the electronics and you will be amazed, I guarantee it. Music is the best without the cables.

Peter

Spawndn72

Peter, I completely agree with you, live acoustic music is the best there is.

I am completely new to hi-fi gear. So I have been doing alot of reading to try to understand the in's and out's of this hobby. In my readings I have found that most of the experts(the guys that write the magazines) are trying to find the perfect system. One that will let them close their eyes and feel like they are at that great music hall.

Then, I read in other places people talking about how much better this thing-a-ma-jig is as compared to this other thing-a-ma-jig etc. So I made the assupmtion that they were saying that one more faithfully reproduced the original signal better than the other. It seems that I am wrong in my assupmtion however. For most people what they want is for their system to reproduce the signal in a way that is most pleasing to them. And there is nothing wrong with that.

But, what this means is that I will have to take the reviewer's taste into consideration when reading a review.

That last statement may be stating the obvious for some of you more seasoned audophiles, But for me, this is an epiphany.

Ha Ha.... I said epiphany...and this is not even audigon.(For those that did not get that, you should read the boards more)


Thanks to everyone that responded to my question. You have enlightened me.



But just one last question(at least in this thread)

If it is ok to color the sound coming out of your speakers by choosing differnet componets and interconnects and wires, etc. Why is it not ok to use an EQ?

Early B.

That's partly true, but most live music sounds horrible.

To elaborate, a cymbal should sound like a real cymbal, a kick drum like a real kick drum, etc., just like they were in your living room. Similarly, for vocals it should sound like the artist is serenading you. And you should be able to isolate every instrument. Thus, the music should sound like it's live, but not like live music. Got it? Good. Now can someone explain to me WTF I just said?

Shizelbs

My goal? To get as much listening time in as I possibly can.

phuz

Originally posted by Shizelbs
My goal? To get as much listening time in as I possibly can.

Great response. No matter how much gear I go through, what cables I'm using, or looking at, or what anyone says.

I am into this hobby cuz I LOVE music. This hobby has allowed me to enjoy all sorts of great music over and over again, and even gotten me into other types of music that I thought I'd never get into.

Listening time, thats the goal. The music, thats what it's all about.

F1nut

Originally posted by Spawndn72


Ha Ha.... I said epiphany...and this is not even audigon.(For those that did not get that, you should read the boards more)

LOL......we've got a live one here.

Why is it not ok to use an EQ?

Distortion and added noise.......bad, bad, bad!!!

dorokusai

My goal is to crank some rock music and my appendix explode.

bikezappa

Most all the people reviewing stuff have a hidden agenda, because they get paid by advertisers. It's just that simple. There is pressure to present the advertisers product in a positive light. Consumer Reports is an exception - NO Ads. There is also great pressure from every company to grow. 20 years ago you wouldn't even think of selling some of the stuff out there in the audio market place today. Bottled water, $5 coffee.. you get the idea.

Follow the money trail if you want to know the truth.

This applies to many things in life.

I would suggest that you start with a simple 2 channel system for music listening. Compare this sound to live music if possible. You are looking for music that makes the little hairs in the back of the neck stand up. In my experience, the composer, conductor and engineer have the most control of these little hairs. The type of speaker wires used has no effect on me.

I see no reason not to use a EQ. Try it out.

I would also suggest that you move your seat and speakers to many different positions in your listening room. Why? It's free and you will learn how placement effects the sound just like if you are in the 12th row center in the symphony or up against the wall in the back.

Finally buy used equipment like speakers, tuners and amps to save much money. Many Polkers sell good used equipment here. Not sure about CD players because of the moving parts, but you can try.

Finally, finally get a really good used tuner from the 70's and 80's and an outside antenna if posssible and listen to NPR stations. Many of them still broadcast a wide variety of live uncompressed music. It's all free again. Check out

http://www.fmtunerinfo.com/

Have a blast.



Peter

mantis

My goal is to achive the best audio sound quality possible. With in my means of course.

I'm always looking. I like to think I can settle down on one given system but then you go hear another one and find some things you like about that one.

I enjoy sitting there listening to the given music and hearing everything recorded.

Wire is very hard. I have demo'd so much of it. I have kinda locked into one comapny now and believe in there direction. They make my system sound better then anything I owned in the past.

The goal is Synergy.

Dan

bikezappa

Synergy between you and music.

or

Synergy between the equipment.

or

Synergy between you and the equipment.

Or

All off the above.

Beer helps me with synergy everywhere.

F1nut

Here's a epiphany for you Peter.

When you have synergy between the equipment, you get synergy with the music and you.

bikezappa

There is no synergy between me and the music if the music sucks or is recorded **** up regardless of the equipment.

F1nut

Huh? What happened to your belief that, "Beer helps me with synergy everywhere."

bikezappa

WELL If I had enough beer I guess I could have some snyergy with bad country music. I do care about my peekup truck, dog and all the heart breaking relationships that I have **** up again and again.

But that is a lot of beer.

George Grand

I want to tap my foot to the music. I want to have the hair on my arms stand up sometimes. I want the blood to stay in my ears, and I want to be re-born as a beautiful, very sexy, tall woman. With flowing red hair and nice shoes to match.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

mantis

F1 got it right, I control what gets played on my system so bad recordings leave the collection.

My goal is so close to being achieved. We shall see in the next few weeks.

Dan

F1nut

Originally posted by George Grand
I want to be re-born as a beautiful, very sexy, tall woman. With flowing red hair and nice shoes to match.

That's it, no more red heads for me.

cfrizz

Oh God! Ok George, where did you go & what did they do to you that you came back so............It defies description!:D

Originally posted by George Grand
I want to tap my foot to the music. I want to have the hair on my arms stand up sometimes. I want the blood to stay in my ears, and I want to be re-born as a beautiful, very sexy, tall woman. With flowing red hair and nice shoes to match.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

beardog03

then we could call you georgous..!!:D

Spawndn72

I want to be re-born as a beautiful, very sexy, tall woman. With flowing red hair and nice shoes to match.

Oh dear God, make it stop. Someone get the vision out of my head. Please.......

George Grand

What's the matter? I thought everybody wanted to be tall.

George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

madmax

Live sound varies. When you say live if you mean concerts with all of the output coming from a PA system then yes, it sucks. If you want to recreate that then you want a very loud PA system. If you are talking small live venue performances where you are actually hearing the guitars coming from Marshalls, non-miked drums and brass and maybe a B3 through a leslie etc then I consider that my reference of what live sounding is.

Considering the cables, well, our systems are already colored. They just are not that good overall when compared to live. When you can hear something and truthfully be able to say you cannot tell it is coming from an audio system, no clues at all that the sound is being performed live in front of you, then you are just about there.

It's all fun though. Loud, bass thumping, soundstages, depth, and the like.

madmax