Speaker cable burn in is a MYTH and/or a LIE!

shack

BULLS**T!

I don't care how many articles there are by so called experts saying burn in doesn't exist.....

I don't care how many test measurments are taken that show no difference.....

I don't care how many EEs say the science doesn't back it up.....

I don't care how many on this forum may disagree.....

I don't care....I heard it.....so for me burn in is reality.....IT EXISTS!

Based on trying a pair of Ethereal Speaker Cables in the Cable Swap here on the forum, I decided to buy a pair. The ones on my rig were unopened and BRAND NEW when I got them. I now have close to 120 hours on them over the last 4 weeks. Today FedEx delivers my BRAND NEW set that are EXACTLY like the ones I've been listening to. In fact I had been listening to some music when the FedEx guy rings the doorbell. Took one pair off....put the new pair on....sat down and pressed play. Immediately the depth and soundstage were GONE! Treble and mids were thin and bass was weak.....comparitively speaking. Imaging was fine but everything could be pinpointed from the speakers....unlike only 15 minutes before.

For me this disproves "burn in is short term audio memory and you are just getting acustomed to the sound over time theory". I have identical pairs except for the usage.

I understand a little about the makeup and structure of metals. I know that the molecules in metal can change and move at different speeds based on what energy is being applied....but my knowledge is limited to metal working (mainly auto sheetmetal). So I can't explain why I am hearing a difference from a scientific point of view.

I don't care why....all I know is that there IS an audible difference that I can hear.

polkatese

-AMEN! :cool:

PolkThug

You got a Rat Shack meter? This is a perfect opportunity to measure the "weak bass". Then as the new cable burns in you could determine exactly how long the Etherals take to break in, when the bass levels become equal. I'm curious as to how long it takes, a day, a week? Cool stuff.

Regards,
PT

shack

Originally posted by PolkThug
You got a Rat Shack meter?

No. I'm afraid not. Just my ears. It probably is a somewhat unique situation where a user has two exact cables with one being brand new and the other "recently" new. I expected some difference....but nothing close to what I hear.

Frank Z

This oughta be good.....

Heads out to the garage for more cheap wine and favorite, well worn, lawn chair.....

shack

Originally posted by Frank Z
This oughta be good.....

Heads out to the garage for more cheap wine and favorite, well worn, lawn chair.....

Go to bed Frank....No drama here tonight;) . As far as I'm concerned, this is not a dicussion/argument...just an observation on my part. I can't make anyone hear it, I can't make anyone belive it...just reporting what I hear.

Frank Z

I'll stay up for this one!:) You know exactly where this is gonna end up.

shack

OK Frank....you keep an eye on it. It's almost 1:00 AM here in EST and I've still got a few things to do before I go to bed....So I'm OUT!

F1nut

Second the AMEN!

I just got new MIT S3's IC's for the shop today. I have been using some older MIT T2's. Hooked up the new cables and the most notable differences were muddy bass, thin top end and a lack of decay. On the plus side, the separation and placement improved. This echos my past experiences with MIT cables and after about 100 hours I fully expect they will have burned in about 90% with the rest after a few more hundred hours.

Whadyasay

Wouldn't it make sense to build a little apparatus with both rca jacks and speaker terminals for the sake of burning in cables? Like something that will just continuously transmit wide frequency sweeps...maybe even at high enough voltages to speed up the process. And then sell the cables that way?

F1nut

There are devices called cable cookers, however I don't think it's very practicle for cables companies to cook their cables before shipping for a number of reasons.

gmorris

Originally posted by F1nut
There are devices called cable cookers, however I don't think it's very practicle for cables companies to cook their cables before shipping for a number of reasons.

perhaps because they know there is no such thing as cable burn-in?

I'm sorry, I just had to say that. I've never experienced cable burn-in for myself, so I have no opinion on the matter either way. I have, however, experienced a situation when tryrrthg & I swapped out speaker cables on his 2 channel rig, and the differences were huge & immediately noticable. So I do believe cables can sound different.

Early B.

I've switched out lots of cables and never noticed any sort of cable burn-in. I ain't saying it doesn't exist, though. However, I'd like to see this cable swapping experiment repeated in more than one situation before any conclusions are drawn.

PolkThug

Originally posted by Whadyasay
Wouldn't it make sense to build a little apparatus with both rca jacks and speaker terminals for the sake of burning in cables? Like something that will just continuously transmit wide frequency sweeps...maybe even at high enough voltages to speed up the process. And then sell the cables that way?

Step right up! I'll make you a sweet deal, say $700 even.

"Similarly, during routine use, even playing music loudly, the cables of the average system have randomly arranged crystals of metal in the path of the electrons causing collisions at a certain rate. The increased or decreased rate of collisions is inferred from the measurement of lost percentage in the ideal propagation velocity, expressed as percentages of the speed of light. During cooking, which is analogous to "flooding," the signal comes with such force (voltage) and volume (amperage) that the molecules are pushed into alignments that create a path of least resistance, from RCA plug IN to RCA plug OUT, causing collisions at a much reduced rate. "

steveinaz

Shack, I agree---though I can't explain it either. My IC's definitely sounded better and opened up after about 2 hrs; the speaker cables took about 7 days to stop sounding "dry" (for lack of a a better word).

billbillw

Its all in your minds. I'm a material science engineer with more than a dozen courses studying the advanced properties of metalic crystal stuctures and electron flow. The voltages and current in a speaker wire are not enough to modify the structure in any way, shape, or form. Bottom line, if you are convinced there will be a difference, your mind will make it so.

steveinaz

How do you explain people who are skeptical noticing these differences though? I was a serious cable skeptic, and have no problem returning an item that doesn't perform. For instance, I have tried to go back to stranded speaker wires on a number of occasions; it was my mentally desired outcome, yet, everytime I tried them I couldn't stand the sound when compared to my "PITA" high-cost wires that I wanted to get rid of.

This kinda dispels the "pshyco-acoustic" theory, doesn't it?

shack

I don't care how many EEs say the science doesn't back it up.....

I'll expand this statement to include Material Science Engineers.

SDA SRS 1.2

I was skeptical of hearing any differences letting the cable burn in until I got Frank's Ultra Double Run. After getting over the intial surprise of the immediate improvement over the Monster Cable I had been using, I was even more pleased that, like Frank said, there was a slightly noticeable improvement after about 50 hours of burn in.

Robbie

shack

Some other thoughts.....

http://www.soundstage.com/yfiles/yfiles200005.htm

bikezappa

Shack

I beleive you think you hear a differnce.

Would try the ABX test?

Have some switch the speaker wires between lamp cord and whatever wires you love. Do this test ten times without looking at the person changing the wires. Write down what speaker wires you think are connected each time. Have the person switching the wires write down what wires are connected each time.

Compare the results.

Tell us the results.


I couldn't tell any differences. 50%

Have a blast and get the data.

shack

Part II...

http://www.soundstage.com/yfiles/yfiles200102.htm

PolkThug

Originally posted by billbillw
Its all in your minds. I'm a material science engineer with more than a dozen courses studying the advanced properties of metalic crystal stuctures and electron flow. The voltages and current in a speaker wire are not enough to modify the structure in any way, shape, or form. Bottom line, if you are convinced there will be a difference, your mind will make it so.

That would make sense since "differences" in interconnects can't be measured.

billbillw

Originally posted by steveinaz
How do you explain people who are skeptical noticing these differences though? I was a serious cable skeptic, and have no problem returning an item that doesn't perform. For instance, I have tried to go back to stranded speaker wires on a number of occasions; it was my mentally desired outcome, yet, everytime I tried them I couldn't stand the sound when compared to my "PITA" high-cost wires that I wanted to get rid of.

This kinda dispels the "pshyco-acoustic" theory, doesn't it?

Steve,
I'm not trying to say that you won't hear differences between two sets of cables. I'm just disputing the burn-in of cables.

shack

Originally posted by bikezappa
Shack

I beleive you think you hear a differnce.

Would try the ABX test?

Have some switch the speaker wires between lamp cord and whatever wires you love. Do this test ten times without looking at the person changing the wires. Write down what speaker wires you think are connected each time. Have the person switching the wires write down what wires are connected each time.

Compare the results.

Tell us the results.


I couldn't tell any differences. 50%

Have a blast and get the data.

I just did this with a set of AudioQuest Diamondbacks and SC Analog 2s. After I had time to aquaint myself with the SCs and the Diamondbacks at the same time, I had my daughter help me with a blind test. She would swap the cables, play a passage that I used during the demos then ask me which one it was. 8 changes/opportunities....8 correct answers. Sometimes she would change the cable...sometimes not. I COULD pick out the difference every time. Maybe I'm special:D

But then again it could be coincidence or..... I could be psychic....I did originate the term psvchic dibs you know.......

PolkThug

Originally posted by shack
I just did this with a set of AudioQuest Diamondbacks and SC Analog 2s. After I had time to aquaint myself with the SCs and the Diamondbacks at the same time, I had my daughter help me with a blind test. She would swap the cables, play a passage that I used during the demos then ask me which one it was. 8 changes/opportunities....8 correct answers. Sometimes she would change the cable...sometimes not. I COULD pick out the difference every time. Maybe I'm special:D

That's pretty cool. Are the SC's RG59/6 type and the AQ's stranded?

steveinaz

Originally posted by billbillw
Steve,
I'm not trying to say that you won't hear differences between two sets of cables. I'm just disputing the burn-in of cables.

The statement applies to either, I was even more skeptical about burn-in. Bill, believe me----I WANT TO BELIEVE YOU---it would make my life so much less complicated, but I calls them as I hears them...LOL

billbillw

Originally posted by shack
Some other thoughts.....

http://www.soundstage.com/yfiles/yfiles200005.htm

Nothing but a bunch of quotes and opinions from the top snake oil sellers in the business.

shack

Originally posted by PolkThug
That's pretty cool. Are the SC's RG59/6 type and the AQ's stranded?

The AQs are 3 solid wires and the SC is stranded.

faster100

I just listen, thankfully i havent a golden ear' I do practice burn -in with tubes and cables, it's called use.. I never spent much time trying to hear a difference.. If i like the cables/tubes they stay.. if they sound better over time.. more power to them and me.. I'm on the fence with this subject... However i like the better componets and cables and tubes for my own reasons. If they sound better after burn in, GREAT!! I don't not believe in it... Just un sure,

shack

Originally posted by billbillw
Nothing but a bunch of quotes and opinions from the top snake oil sellers in the business.

The reviewer didn't think so.

Let me be blunt: Anyone who claims there isn’t a clearly audible difference between virgin and properly conditioned cables, at least from out of the bunch I tested, is clearly hard of hearing.