LSI9 as a Center Channel?

wingnut4772

I currently have an LSIC center but I am not as impressed with it as I am my LSI15s. I am still within the trial period and can return it,. I was wondering if the LSI9 might be a better choice? Does anyone have it as a center? How is the soundstaging with the fronts since it is vertical? Can it be placed horizontally?Thanks in advance.

Mjr7531

It's better to have an upright speaker, but it's much easier to place the center channel if it's horizontal, tons of people around here use a LSi9 for a center, just search the forum.

wingnut4772

I actually have been researching and I have found a couple of mixed reviews....It would not hurt the speaker to lay it sideways? How would that affect the sound? And.......does anyone want to sell one?:D

unc2701

I've tried out using two bookshelves as a center- put them on either side of the TV in the upright position, rather than over/under. Did this both wiring them parallel (they were 8 ohm) and running them through seperate channels of a power amp. My impression was that it sounded great if you were in the sweet spot and kinda crappy otherwise, but these weren't LSi's

Laying the speaker on its side won't hurt it (apart from scuffing the finish), so if you get the chance to try it out let us know what you think.

Frank Z

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=23161&highlight=lsi9+as+a+center

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11433&highlight=lsi9+as+a+center

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=11172&highlight=lsi9+as+a+center

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=6526&highlight=lsi9+as+a+center

jrlouie

wingnut,
I too have not yet been impressed with the LsiC. I've felt this way for a couple of years now. I've previously read forum topics on it such as the posts Frank provided. As stated in one of the articles, it may be that I don't get good performance because I don't watch movies very loud since my room is small. To be able to hear the dialogue, if my left and right Lsi15's are set at "0" (regarding volume configuration), I have to set my center to +8.
I've previously purchased an Outlaw mono-block to see if amplification was the problem. It helped, but I still have it set at +8.
I've now ordered an interconnect from Signal Cable and I'm waiting for it to arrive. I'm hoping that maybe it'll help too. Open things up maybe. Maybe make it sound cleaner.
Read the articles that Frank listed, very good reading. Regarding the crossover switchout, personally I don't want to tinker with the crossover.
I'll let you know what improvement I get with the new interconnect.

lomic

Kinda strange for me I guess. My LSiC is actually calibrated at -7 where my 9's are at -4. I can hear dialogue perfectly even when I'm just watching TV with the volume at -40dB - though I do only sit about 8 feet away. With the awesome channel seperation on the Denon 2900 the LSiC's off-axis performance is amazing, voices sound properly centered even when sitting at a 45 degree angle.

My only problem is getting resonance through the TV at certain frequencies, making things sound muffled - but I suspect a set of Vibrapods will fix this.

scottnbnj

i only do 2 channel, but, i gotta think that the way many centers are set up (inside cabinets, close to the floor, entertainment unit or monitor) that it's easy to get low frequency reinforcement or resonances that make for peaky frequency response. that would be an explanation for having to set it up hot for overall spl and still end up with muffled output.

if that's it, frequency sweeps or pink noise with real time analysis would pick it up and help you troubleshoot with treatments, isolation or placement fixes. for resonances in nearby items, you can usually feel them with your fingernail if they're making noise. don't overlook moving listening position further into the room if the wall is very close behind it, sometimes moving less than a foot can help. this would be the answer if the muffled sound can only be heard at the listening position and certain positions (like close to walls) around the room.

)

jrlouie

lomic,
that makes me quite curious if my center is malfunctioning in some way. it doesn't sound distorted really, just very quite. that's why i have to bump up its calibration. btw, i most often watch at volumes about -40 up to -30 max on my system.

wingnut,
would you say your position of being not impressed is for the same reasons as mine? i guess i'm not exactly clear regarding your reasons. if it's something totally different, i'll start a new thread.

how much is the lower-bass driver on the LsiC supposed to move? i realize it is utilized much less. i assume it'll move some but could just a small amount of movement be from the movement of the other driver (is the cab divided)? what i'm getting at is that i'm trying to quantify what i should expect from the lower-bass driver (visually may be one way, probably not a good way). i do have Lsi7's, maybe i'll replace the LsiC with a 7 just to see if there's a significant change. i doubt it though. if i recall, i've previous done the same test with a Csi30 and saw no improvement.
maybe i have resonance problems, like scott said.

mantis

I find nothing wrong with the LsiC. I have owned it for about 2 years now and it plays perfectly. I use Kimber 8tc 8tc bi wires on the mains and a single run to the center channel with Kimber Jumpers.B&K avr307 powers all the Lsi speakers.

Dan

wingnut4772

I just find that the LSIC is not up to par with the 15s as far as quality, clarity and accuracy. I do have to bump it up considerably for movies in order to hear diologue over my mains. ( check out my amp. It is plenty )

I demoed a 9 vs a C yesterday at Sound Advice and the 9 was the clear winner (at least in the showroom) but they only sell the pair. If I must, I guess I will get the pair but I really want to find just one.

lomic

Maybe you're expecting your center to be outputting more than it should - have you ever properly calibrated your system with an SPL meter?

I originally had my LSiC turned up higher than my mains because I thought it sounded cool having the greater presence from the center. Then I calibrated and realized the center was about 6dB hot and grudgingly turned it down. Now the distortion at high volumes is gone and it greatly improved the soundstage.

The key feature of the LSiC that I've heard it loses even using the 9's crossover is off-axis listening, I have friends over watching movies all the time filling up the whole couch - so I definitely wouldn't attempt using an actual 9 unless I was the only viewer and always in the sweet spot.

In terms of sonic quality though, it would be very hard for the C to beat out a 9, simply because of cabinet size. They designed the C to be able to fit most people's system space-wise. As easily seen by the 7 vs. 9 in the LSi line a larger cabinet is immsenly desireable when determining presence. What I'd really like to hear is a 9 with a C's crossover.

wingnut4772

Yep. Spl meter and the whole 9 yards. My Sherwood actually comes with a microphone and a feature that will adjust the speakers for room acoustics and etc. but I prefer to do it myself with the SPL.

jrlouie

Well, I'm still in the process of testing. So nothing is conclusive. I'm still waiting on my Signal Cable interconnect to come in for my center. But here's something significant that I've found so far.
I watched a low level hard-to-hear dialogue scene.
Config A: low quality, long in length interconnect with my M200.
Config B: high quality and short interconnect on my Vs650.

M200 rated @ 300 watts @ 4 ohms.
Vs650 rated @ 325 watts @ 4 ohms.
All speaker wires are the same.

When I switch to config B, the center channel volume was much much louder. I had to decrease the level calibration on my pre-pro from +2 to -3 to equal the output level of my tower. That's a 5 dB difference! This could be just due to the differences in amplification. Or it could be a combination of amp and cable.

Regardless, I'm feeling more comfortable that it's not the LsiC, but a cable/amp issue that makes me have to bump up the center channel level quite higher than my towers.

I'll be able to test some more once I get a quality interconnect to hook up to my M200. The problem is that my quality interconnect hooked up to my Vs650 won't hook up to my M200 (the Vs650 has 1/4" jacks on the amp).

wingnut4772

I am wondering if maybe biwiring the center might help?

wingnut4772

Okay ..I bit the bullet and now I have the other half for sale on Audiogon if anyone is interested...http://ads.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cl.pl?spkrmoni&1116779091

hoosier21

I have always bumped up the level on the center channel, and I have always hated how the center channel speaker sounds compared the matching L-R speaker, all brands that I have tried.

I hate the fact that center channel speakers cost way too much.


Russ - center channel speaker hater

wingnut4772

Here is another interesting thing. I did an auto calibration tonight with my Sherwood and the Sherwood even set the center channel 2db louder than the fronts.

wingnut4772

Alrighty...I have had the 9 as a center for a little bit now and here is my little review.

I like it. It is much clearer and more distinct and I do not have to run it any hotter than the 15s to achieve this. It also sounds light years better with music .

The only negative side is that it does not have the same dispersion of the LSIC but I am not sure that is a negative if that is what was making the LSIC sound cruddy.
it is only a very subtle difference soundfield wise and not noticeable if you did not notice it...er.....you know what I mean.:D

I am very happy with it and glad I read the idea here. Before I had the LSIC I had a Sonus Faber Solo Home (Sold on Ebay) so needless to say the LSIC was a real disappointment. The 9 is not and now I have a perfectly blended front stage

Now if you can just get someone to split a pair with you, you will be in business.

jrlouie

Hi all,
Just wanted to post an update. I had my LsiC resting atop my TV angled down towards the listener. Yesterday I was watching a movie and decided to simply have the LsiC lay flat on top of my TV (just to try). The dialogue clarity improved! My guess is that reflections are my main problem. I have a glass-top coffee table between the primary seating position and the LsiC. I'm guessing I was getting a large amount of reflection off of it, which muddy'd up the dialogue. Something everyone else may want to consider. Here's a pic of my setup so you can see what I was talking about with the table.

lomic

If you want to see if it's actually the table, angle your LSiC back down and toss some pillows or a heavy blanket on the coffee table.

jrlouie

Good idea. I'll try that this evening.

jrlouie

You're right! The table is not the culprit. Covered the table with a blanket doubled over and 3 pillows on top. It made no difference.
If I angle my LsiC down towards the listener, it has a hollow sound. Lay it flat atop the TV, hollowness goes away and voices sound more natural.

Airplay355

Nice apartment

aaharvel

LSI -C's for centers...
LSI- 9's for centers....
buying 2 LSI-9 just so you use 1 for a center...

you guys must be rich.



my "RTI" system (in here I feel 'Walmarty') lol

Fronts- RTI-4
Center- CSI-3
Sides- F/X 300i dipole
Rears- F/X 300i bipole
Velo Cht-10

Pre/Pro- H/K 235
2ch. Amp- Adcom 5300
5ch. Amp- Adcom 7300

2ch
+
5ch

= 7channels of MID-FI BLISS! lmao.

peace!

RowdyUSP40

Hey Guys,
New around here and Polk LSi owner.... Should one speaker (left) on the LSiC be very quite (for lack of a better word) compared to the other?
I realize it (left speaker) is the lower-bass driver but, it doesn't seem to do a lot... 5 channel music or movies. I just want to make sure I don't have a problem.
I've already had to have a driver in one of my LSi9's replaced (only about 2 months of use).
Thanks for any info!

scottnbnj

that's good news jrl, i know you've been having trouble with this for a long time.

i noticed that you moved your mains too. it looks better than the old layout from here (nj). i'd have my butt parked in front of the table quite a bit for 2 channel. how's it working for you?

it's hard to tell from your pic, but i think the tweet is supposed to be closer to the listening position than the ports. that would put the tweet on the bottom for your placement.

how do you have the lsic mounted to the tv? are you using blu-tack, isolation feet or anything? maybe a piece of marble w/ blu-tack might help a bit. i'd keep the mounting points of the tv to the marble and the marble to the speak as close to the corners of both boxes as possible.

how close is your sofa to the wall behind it? if it's close, maybe experiment with more distance between the wall and the sofa.

it might help if you place the front edge of the lsic so that it hangs over the front edge of the tv to limit diffraction. this might have something to do with the distortion when you aim the speak down at the listening position.

there's a quick and dirty explanation of diffraction and gif animation here:

http://www.silcom.com/~aludwig/glossary.htm

)

scottnbnj

Originally posted by RowdyUSP40
Should one speaker (left) on the LSiC be very quite (for lack of a better word) compared to the other?

no problem, that's just how it is. there are quite a few old threads around here that touch on it if you're good with search engines.

maybe go to the search page:

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/search.php?s=

if you plug in something like "lsic array OR cascad*", it should give you a lot of stuff to pick through.

)

RowdyUSP40

Thanks Scott! I feel better already...:)