nail in the coffin for SACD and DVD-Audio by Dual Disc

danger boy

Dual disc article

the writing was on the wall for hi rez audio.. well. it sounds like it's a done deal now. Bye, bye SACD and DVD-a. Hello dual disc.

polkatese

Let me get this straight: to enjoy ALL the formats (Hi-Rez), now I have to add one more player to do dual disc? this is insanity. Let me count:

1 DVD only
1 DVD-A + DVD
1 SACD + DVD
1 DVD-A + SACD + DVD

btw, these players were purchased chronologically, since each player were THE Hi-rez trend within those period (within the past 5+ years)

and coming soon:
1 Dual Disc + DVD?

I would not betting on anything yet, give it at least 2 years, to see where's the industry is goin'

Btw, the record industry executives must counting the money over and over, since each format will give 'em reasons to reissue 20 years old album, and consumers like me would be led to believe (again) that these reissues are even better than the last one.

Brilliant!

*rant off*

danger boy

with dual disc you DO NOT need any new equipment. whatever you are currently using. will play both sides of a dual disc. your CD player with play the CD side. your DVD player will play the DVD and CD side.

not the case with SACD and DVD-A as well all know. to many analog connectors and special players needed to play the disc is what killed the format.

The article was interesting. The American market for the most part is pusing for multi channel audio. while those nutty Europeans still prefer stereo (2 ch) listening. Maybe those Europeans got something going there. whadda ya think?

Naw. Hogwash. Multichannel audio is where it's at. (runs and hides).

F1nut

HA! Don't bet the house on that one.

"In what is now a familiar event, two more companies - JVC and Philips - have issued consumer advisories about the new Dual Disc format. The statements follow a recent notice from Meridian which provided a detailed report on its various disc players and how they fare with the new Dual Disc releases.

High Fidelity Readers will recall that the Dual Disc is a "flipper disc" format invented by Warner Music in the U.S. which features DVD content on one side and CD content on the other. While the Dual Discs have been playable in most consumer disc players, there have been some consumer reports of play problems - usually with the side marked "CD". Apparently these consumer reports have led to a number of CD, DVD and SACD player makers to take the cautionary step of issuing consumer advisories on Dual Disc playback with their products.

Dual Disc Consumer Advisories To Date
To date, we've now seen 12 such Dual Disc advisories from the following firms:

JVC

Lexicon

Marantz

Mark Levinson

Meridian

Onkyo Electronics

Philips

Pioneer Electronics

Sony Computer Entertainment America

Sony Electronics America

Sony Europe

Toshiba"


The entire article, http://www.highfidelityreview.com/news/news.asp?newsnumber=12610938

danger boy

Yeah I've heard that too about some discs not being playable in some machines. My dual disc hasn't given me any problems as of yet.

But I guess what the deal is. it's much easier to "modify" a existing player to accept the unique thickness of the dual disc. that it is to have to purchase new equipment because it's not compatible with other formats.

Dual discs are pretty new still. This problem will be solved. I think in the very new future too. Who's to say that our discs won't soon be smaller then they currently are? with backwards compatitility. like those 3" jobbers.

My Gamecube uses those small disc's for audio and video. why can't our dual disc audio too?

Danny Tse

Originally posted by danger boy
it's much easier to "modify" a existing player to accept the unique thickness of the dual disc. that it is to have to purchase new equipment because it's not compatible with other formats.

It's the discs themselves that are causing the potential problem; they are not within specs of a CD. Do you think the manufacturers will be modding their players to accomadate yet another format? And potentially making them not in spec with regular CDs? Believe me, there won't be any dedicated DualDisc player anytime soon.

As for SACD and DVD-A, you can still play these on any DVD player. With the exception of early single-layer titles, SACDs can be played back on almost all CD-compatible players. As for DVD-A, yes you can only play those on a DVD-compatible player....which is why DualDisc was developed.

AsSiMiLaTeD

Here we go again...

SACD isn't going anywhere...

F1nut

It goes really far in my house, you should hear it.

reeltrouble1

Ever hear of Jonatha Brooke? Little known artist and band, has her own label cuz she wont cowtail to the big companies, or maybe they wont to her, she sounds great and releases her and the bands material in a high-rez format, why do you think she takes the time to do this?? Buy her stuff and it comes in a "pen and ink hand addressed mailer" least mine has, talk about low budget.

Just got her disc Steady Pull which has been out for a while, yea, its two-sided so you can watch her play and hear her thoughts on the tunes. BTW this young lady has real musical talent.

Young folks seem to need visual aids because they are buying the "show" not really the music, also the "Ashlee Simpsons" of the industry have to rely on some kind of visual performance as the music wont stand alone. I dont mind watching the DVD but its usually once, as I am perfectly content to sit and listen to my discs, over and over and over again. This artisit understands the musical value of hi-resolution playback as long as she and others do, we will have high rez, albiet at a higher cost, or maybe not, just have to stay tuned.

RT1

jcaut

Young folks seem to need visual aids because they are buying the "show" not really the music

RT1 hit the nail on the head there. Listening--- really listening--- I think is becoming a lost art.

I'm kind of a "tech-geek" I guess. I like to aspire to have the latest and greatest. My limited budget usually gets in the way. So instead, I like to try to keep informed; Stay on top of the latest tech. I'm very intrigued by the improved audio quality that the hi-res formats can offer, but I can't help feeling like the benefits are lost on the majority of consumers who don't really care about listening, and on the majority of modern music that doesn't make use of the 16-bits we've already got.

Dual disc. Neat. I think hi-res formats will stick around but will continue to be a niche market, with higher prices and few discs.


Jason

steveinaz

Originally posted by jcaut
RT1 hit the nail on the head there. Listening--- really listening--- I think is becoming a lost art.

I'm kind of a "tech-geek" I guess. I like to aspire to have the latest and greatest. My limited budget usually gets in the way. So instead, I like to try to keep informed; Stay on top of the latest tech. I'm very intrigued by the improved audio quality that the hi-res formats can offer, but I can't help feeling like the benefits are lost on the majority of consumers who don't really care about listening, and on the majority of modern music that doesn't make use of the 16-bits we've already got.

Dual disc. Neat. I think hi-res formats will stick around but will continue to be a niche market, with higher prices and few discs.


Jason

Agree. I had high hopes for SACD, but I was pretty sure it wouldn't succeed. There's just no market for something that requires that you replace all of your CD's.

I've heard some wonderfully recorded Redbook/XRCD/HDCD which have renewed my faith in standard CD. I was listening last night to Steely Dan's "2 against nature" my god, what a great recording---and a standard redbook CD to boot.

Efforts just need to placed on higher resolution redbook, that way consumers will also reap benefits (albeit, limited) from their existing CD library.

I know alot of pro-hirez folks think I'm the anti-rez, but its not true, I just get frustrated when corporations want to re-invent the wheel, at the sake of OUR wallets. Redbook can, and in many cases does, sound wonderful. Let's work with what we've got...

danger boy

I agree with reeltrouble1 and jcaut.

truely sitting and listening to audio/music is something of the past. unless you are an avid audiophile. it's to bad... that people don't take in all the music has to offer. Sometimes that can only be accomplished with serious gear and dedicating the time to enjoy it.

We all know that downloading music and it's many different formats are what's driving consumers right now. That's important to look at.. because.. it affirms that consumers aren't looking for good quailty sounding music. They just want so so sounding tunes to fill up their IPods. The market it catering to them.. and in some thumbing their noses at those of us in here that want something better. ie: hi rez audio/multi channel audio.... etc.

polkatese

db,
that's why it's called Hobby , the same way, perhaps, we would thumbing our noses to people who like to watch Oprah (ok, it is just an example to bring out the point, Oprah's lovers, please sit down and enjoy).

cfrizz

All of you have made good points & I like to make a couple more.

When I buy cd's now, I will only get remasters of old material, because having them all cleaned up make them sound terrific I might not be getting all of the resolution of a SACD but it sounds a lot better than the original cd that I bought yrs ago.

I also download some music. I don't want to spend to get an entire album for what has maybe 1-2 songs on it that are the only ones worth having. I end up feeling ripped off having spent usually 10+ dollars for a CD & I only like 2 songs on the whole disk.

Hi rez music is terrific, but it is expensive, and the titles that I'm generally interested in getting simply aren't there. So we are all stuck between a rock & a hard place.

reeltrouble1

I certainly have nothing against redbook CD, download is just not for me right now, maybe someday. I realize we all are on budgets of one type or another, I have bought many high resolution discs for 12.50-13.99, not really much more than redbook, others I have indeed paid more for, the gear and software is worth it to me since I see no reason not to maximize my systems to the means available to me. Lots of us buy Signal Cable or other more expensive wire for our systems to help them just a bit, so why not discs.

I may have bought some discs from artists based on a certain track I liked but have found many gems in their "back catalouge" works buried in the disc. Within these tunes the artist may in fact feel freeer to reveal more of their musical essence and soul.

Its the music that gets me, not the gear (not that I dont love gear) and I will the spend the dough that I can on anything that will make the music more for me, this is very much a personal thing.

RT1

bknauss

So how about that HD-DVD and Blu Ray stuff...

Just adding fuel to the fire

AsSiMiLaTeD

Originally posted by F1nut
It goes really far in my house, you should hear it.

You took my comment wrong...it isn't going anywhere in that it's going to be around for a long time...

My SACD collection just topped 50...and climbing

F1nut

OOPS.........puts tail between legs and walks away.:o

halo

Wasn't this the same problem/situation quadraphonic sound encountered? Limited selections? Specific equipment required to produce the effect? Better sound? Correct me if I'm wrong - this was slightly before my time.