What's Wrong with my system.....

Ricardo

I joined this forum hoping someone can help me find out what can be wrong with my HT system setup.
I recently upgraded several components, and with the new system surround sound is nothing compared with my old system (I use the surrounds basically for movies, since I like music in PCM stereo if available from the source). I just don't hear the details I used to hear in the back for some movies; speakers actually work and some sound comes out, but not as much as before.

Old system -5.1:
Denon AVR-3803
Sony DVD player with DD decoder
Pioneer towers for fronts (very old)
Sony micro satellite center and 2 surrounds
Sony SA-WMS230 sub

New System -7.1:
Denon AVR-3803
Denon DVD1910 (No decoders)
2 RTi8 fronts
CSi5 center
4 JBL Northridge E10 for Surrounds and surround backs
Sony SA-WNS230

I changed a lot of things at the same time, so I could either go back and try one by one, or ask the experts; so here are my thoughts:
-Does the fact that the DVD player has no decoding have anything to do? I am using optical output into the Denon receiver with decoder...
-Are the speakers used for surrounds and backs the issue? I've tried increasing the output to thouse with no success...
-Any other thoughts or advise?

Thanks!!!!

AsSiMiLaTeD

What do you mean when you say the DVD player has no decoders?

PolkThug

The first step would be using a Radio Shack spl meter to calibrate all your speaker output at the listening position, so they are all equal.

The Sony surrounds probably sounded "louder" but were less accurate than the JBL's.

Also, this sounds dumb, but are you selecting the 6.1 track from the DVD menu?



Regards,
PolkThug

Ricardo

Wow, thanks for the prompt response...
Well, I mean my Sony DVD had built in decoders so you could get the output for a 5.1 duirectly from the DVD player; the Denon "supports" Dolby Digital and DTS, but needs to ne inputed into a receiver with decoders, That;s what I am doing, using the optical line...

Ricardo

Thanks Polk thug; I did use a radio shack sound meter; I initially calibrated everything to 75 db, and then took the JBL's up to 78, but still seems not enough sound effects reach the surrounds. Maybe I am using the meter wrongly? I am aiming to each speaker when measuring...is this the right way to do it??

Thanks again.

Ricardo

Thug,

I am selecting 6.1 when available, though not many of those (5.1 or DTS is more commoc..)

maggiefan

It's recommended that you aim the sound meter at the ceiling, not the speaker. And be sure and do it at the listening position.

PolkThug

Originally posted by HTrookie
I am aiming to each speaker when measuring...is this the right way to do it??

Thanks again.

No. I sit in my listening position and aim the meter, up and forward, "/". Keeping the meter in the same position for each speaker.

Ricardo

Thug, Larry,

Thanks; I'll try that; I am also thinking a bit on Thug's comment "The Sony surrounds probably sounded "louder" but were less accurate than the JBL's".... maybe that's what is happening....

jarros

Originally posted by HTrookie
Thug, Larry,

Thanks; I'll try that; I am also thinking a bit on Thug's comment "The Sony surrounds probably sounded "louder" but were less accurate than the JBL's".... maybe that's what is happening....

Don't forget about giving the speakers time to "break in" if they are new. You'll notice that the speakers will open up in the first 50 hours or so of playback as the drivers loosen up.

If you can, set the speakers to play while you're off at work for the day. Start off at lower volumes and work your way up to normal listening levels after a few hours.

Ricardo

Thanks jarros....would've never thought of that...

danger boy

my friend used to use JBL's as surrounds. and he always had them cranked to +10 all the time. and they still didn't put out much sound from his Onkyo receiver. Maybe they aren't as sensitive or something like that. try a different speaker for your surrounds.

for instance. if you still have your Pionners around. hook them up. i know they are flooorstanders. but for this test just hook them up and see what kind of sound you get from them.

also. not much programming in in 6.1, 7.1 etc. most is 5.1 at best.

make sure all DSP modes are turned off. no church, hall, stadium. etc. off, off off. then play around with the large, small settings for your surrounds.

Start with a 5.1 system.. then add speakers from there.. it's much easier that way. hook up 5.1, then add 6.1, then 7.1 and see how things change.

good luck

Ricardo

Thanks cowboy; I sure have some homework to do... I just hope the answer is not "change the JBL's"; my wife would kill me.....:)

Ricardo

First of all, I want to thank all of you for responding to my question; it is nice to know that rookies like me can count on your experience to help solve our sometimes "dumb" problems...

I did a lot of testing without making any changes on the hardware (listening to 7 ch. stereo the JBL's sounded great, so the issue could not be in the speakers...)

Please don't laugh (though I know you will...); the issue was even dumber than Polk Thug's suggestion on selecting the right audio track....The DVD player needs to be set to "on" for Dolby Digital and DTS......and yes, it was off.....

Learning (for me): don't ever assume you don't need to read the set up instructions for the simplest component.

Last night we watched Around the world in 80 days with the kids, and the sound was superb; not the best picture in terms of sound effects, but for me was like heaven... I will never regret the purchase of those RTi8's...definitely worth the extra money...and for the people that are wondering how to improve video quality from DVD's without spending your vacations money on it, go with the Denon DVD1910; the up-conversion to High Definition is awesome for the 250 bucks.

Thanks!!

danger boy

HTrookie,

sounds like things have improved. might just need a big more tweaking to get it they way you want it to sound.

where do you have your surrounds placed? wall, floor, table. and how far are they away from your sweet spot? where you sit to watch a movie? Placement is important for good surround sound effects.

Ricardo

Danger boy,

I have my HT in the basement; very irregular area; it is 20 feet long (front wall to surround back wall) by 11 feet wide (from left wall to column where I have my right surround). There is no wall in the right; only the column, and open to the rest of the basement. I show in the image below speakers in red, sub in green and sweet spot in black. Distances from sweet spot are:
to front speakers: 10 feet
to side surrounds: 5 feet
to back surrounds: 8 feet
All surrounds mounted in the wall, at approx. 2 feet over ears.
My sub is an old Sony that came with my original "HT in a box"; system was 500 W and I thought the sub was 100W, but it reads 45W in the back label....so far I have no complaint on bass, but probably because I don't have anything to compare with. Have thought on moving it to the corner but always forget to buy the longer cable.

Any advice is welcome.

PolkThug

Good to hear you got it figured out!

Tour2ma

.

Ricardo

Ok; I posted some pictures so that people can see it....

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/showcase/view.php?userid=64116

I already was told that there should be a wall in the right side....that ain't gonna happen....

The sub will be replaced....but it won't be soon; yesterday I got the bad news....both my children need orthodontic treatment...for the price of that I could build a high end system, including the TV...

So will need to stay as is for a while. Any advice is welcome. I have one more dumb question though; the CSI manual (very poor, I must say...) says that the settings should be put on "small"; frequency response of this speaker starts at 45Hz, and my crossover setting is at 80Hz. In my ignorant mind, I am losing some bass here....I thought of testing the CSi5 as "large", but since the manual specifically says "small", I thought I would ask you experts first; Is it that the speaker could be damaged by setting it to large, or it is just a common sense thing that the center speaker should not get so low?

Thanks!!!

Tour2ma

Small vs. Large is a matter of taste as much as anything, but other factors are your sub's capability and power supplied to the HT speakers.

You can run all speakers "large" (some here do so) and get very satisfactory results.

The pluses for running small include simple bass management, i.e., minimizing peaks and nulls multiple bass radiators can create by interacting, and lightening the load on the amp.

Bass peaks and nulls can occur even with a single bass radiator, e.g., a sub, due to room reflections. With a sub moving it around is usually an acceptable alternative. Not so with other HT speakers... as in where else can the center channel go...

Amp power is fairly self-explanatory. Mosy of the power requirements reside with bass. The deeper you go, the more power that is required. Marginal amps', be they stand alone or in AVR's, performance can improve by assigning bass duties to a sub...

Try a couple different ways... all "small"... mains to "large"... mains and center "large".... and see what pleases your ears...

Pics you posted are helpful. Not a bad layout... the open wall just means more cubic feet to fill with bass... Couple quick thoughts:
- get the left main out of the corner... cramming it in there has got to be hurting imaging
- try putting the little sub in the newly vacated corner (corner loading should maximize room gain)
- grab a couple rubber doorstops at the local hardware store and use them to angle your center channel downward
- liberal use of the bar should improve sound quality... and help you forget the Orthedontist bills...

Ricardo

You know....they say it is now or never....just placed an order for an SVS PB10-ISD; and I will STOP getting in this club for a while, or I will be in serious problems

Thanks again to all of you for your help!!!!

Tour2ma

Good luck...

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