Ok heres one for ya to figure out, strange

faster100 · February 2005

Ok i posted before about a hiss/buzz in my tweeters figureing it was the dirty power to my house, so it's been driveing me crazy!! been moving things, changeing interconencts, pre's speakers, just to see if its the gear... Bottom line last night i inhook the tube pre-amp, unhook the interconnect going to the amp, its only amp and wire to the speakers, I turn it on and have the usual low level hiss you sometimes get when the volume is all the way down but no buzz like i was getting, Cool right? NOpe... So i plug in the interconnects to the amp, but leave the pre OFF, buzz.... Ok so now i turn the pre-amp on, now the Hiss increases and the buzz is a bit louder, change to the SS pre, same thing... So what's the deal? It can't be the pre's as it does the same thing on both, also hooked up a rti70 to one side to see if it was the sda... nope same thing,, even tried to different pair of Rca's..

so heres the symptoms...

just amp to speakers no connections, pretty quiet.... hook Rca's up, either pair i have and it has a static like buzz, turn the pre-amp on and now those sounds just get louder, mind you loud meaning dead quiet room and source (tuner or cd off) and when i turn the source on and up a bit it can't be heard for the most part.. But its still there and annoying...

so why would just hooking the interconnect up, (everything else off) start this buzz, Is it the amp? should i try it hooked to the denon in the HT which i dont think has any buzz or hiss per say out there?

Lemme know guys....

BlueMDPicker · February 2005

Does your preamp have more than one pair of outputs?

faster100 · February 2005

Yes, BUt ive tried my parasound pre-amp which has 2 different outputs, and tried my tube pre which has 2 outputs only tied together inside, ive tried all 4 from both pre's.....

BlueMDPicker · February 2005

Have you tried having SOMETHING connected to every output - even if it's another amp (turned off)?

I had a very similar situation. One of the brightest guys around here, DarqueKnight, walked me through all sorts of possibilities and I still had that ever so slight, maddening hum.

When I got my DCM tube amp, I connected it to the second outs pair on the pre (the outs are, like yours, hard wired together) to try it with another speaker set, leaving the PS Audio amp and SRS's intact and off. The hum disappeared. Why? Who knows? My theory is that the unoccupied set of outs was picking up RF.

faster100 · February 2005

ok i made a wav file on my website, click and listen.. its a buzz also, not just hiss...

http://mysite.verizon.net/res1lnt4/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderfiles/speakersound.wav

duely noted on the tips and i "will" try that as well as we trouble shoot, got another dentist appointment so i'll be back later, Thanks MD for the help so far

disneyjoe7 · February 2005

I thinking that if your Pre-amp is picking up noise, I believe it's AC noise you're hearing. So my question is do you have any AC riding "Transmitters"? Those plug in devices that move the phone from room to room, those devices that send X10 to turn on lights, any thing that moves IR from room to room, any device that moves computer network from one room to the other room.

You may be thinking I seen it all (yes I think I have).

2+2 · February 2005

faster, try running a wire between the chassis of your preamp to the chassis of your amp. Test out mutlitple locations on the chassis....may be a grounding thing.

faster100 · February 2005

it only startsb soon as a interconnect is hooked to the amp, i have no x-10 or similiar in the house either... i can try the ground from pre-to amp.... will try this shortly. I had the buzz gone ahile back with a cheater plug, so i thought but now its back..

faster100 · February 2005

The parasound has volume controls so i hooked the tuner straight to the amp, couldnt hear anything, well when i powered off the tuner and turned the volumes back up, Buzzzzz so its not the pre-amp/s or the extra outputs..

maybe i'll check at the box and see if these yahoo's grounded the house to a few ground rods, just seems weird it doesnt do it with the amp all by itself.. only with rca's hooked to it.. Hmmmm dunno

disneyjoe7 · February 2005

Hate to say it put you may need a nice AC filter Monster or something similar.

Also the noise maybe coming from a neighbor AC noise generator device. I hope the ground idea works over anything else.

PolkThug · February 2005

Time for some magic Cardas RCA caps.

BlueMDPicker · February 2005

Originally posted by PolkThug
Time for some magic Cardas RCA caps.

NOTE: Your picture shows two left channel plugs. The nautilus must be spiraled the opposite direction on the right channel - or, you face the peril of internautiean cross modulation frequency dispersion. The horror, the horror!!!! :eek:

F1nut · February 2005

I use the Cardas caps on all my gear, wouldn't turn'em on without.

BlueMDPicker · February 2005

Jesse,

Of course, I was just kidding. I've owned a few "high end" amps in my day. It's funny how many of them have shorting or shielding plugs as one of the first troubleshooting steps, isn't it?

Mike

F1nut · February 2005

I knew that and yes it is, isn't it?

Good source for the Cardas caps, http://cls.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/cls.pl?accstwek&1111695986

No affiliation

dcarlson · February 2005

Originally posted by BlueMDPicker
NOTE: Your picture shows two left channel plugs. The nautilus must be spiraled the opposite direction on the right channel - or, you face the peril of internautiean cross modulation frequency dispersion. The horror, the horror!!!! :eek:

Lol.

faster100 · February 2005

I don't want to cover a underlyeing problem with conditioners and caps, Not to say that wont be the final outcome.. Just want to find if its the amp? the ground?

update:

I put a cheater plug on the amp, and now with the pre off but rca's on it has no buzz, So i turn the pre/s back on and its back, install a cheater on it also.. still there. I'm at a loss

Dennis Gardner · February 2005

I am in the groundloop camp.

All your audio needs the same ground outlet or ground is sought out through your ICs. Hooking the cases together may help, or moving AC wires around.

BlueMDPicker · February 2005

If you have enough gear and IC's about the house, try hooking something up to every in and out on the preamp. Same principle as plugs and will eliminate that as a possible fix if you still have the issue.

RuSsMaN · February 2005

Mike, you can't BEAT it into some people.

faster100 · February 2005

No Russman, i want to make sure its not a shody electric install from the installers before i go buying fix it gear... I will try the grounds to each other, i'm working on one thing at a time...

Just getting all the idea's while everyone is fresh about it,

Thanks MD again for your help, and everyone else

steveinaz · February 2005

Make sure to turn off ALL lights. Unplug your refridgerator.....NOW troubleshoot using the process of elimination. Refridges, Halogen bulbs, florescent lights can all induce buzzing in your ac.

faster100 · February 2005

Ok hooking the pre and amp did nothing, however i do believe its a ground problem,

heading outside to check for a good ground from the box,

Dennis Gardner · February 2005

Start with a bare amp, just speakers, then hook in the pre. Don't have any other source into the pre yet. If the hum is present with just 2 pieces grounded together, then it is internal in one of those 2 pieces. You can't search it out with other sources hooked in the amplification circuit.

It can be other sources in the house as mentioned, but you have to find out if the primary amp sections have it in them first.

Once you have cleaned the AC side of the equation, (unhooked and unplugged all other components and still have the buzz) then it may be coming in through the other inputs or simply a noisy AC line.

gidrah · February 2005

Originally posted by 2+2
faster, try running a wire between the chassis of your preamp to the chassis of your amp. Test out mutlitple locations on the chassis....may be a grounding thing.

Try this if you haven't yet. I've found my CDP causes a hum when connected. I used a length of 24awg wire and ran a jumper from the chassis of the CDP to whatever amp I'm using. Someday I'll open that CDP and have a looksee.

BlueMDPicker · February 2005

My money is on the unused jacks - whether in or out. I wasn't suggesting you IC a component to every jack AND plug the extra components in the AC chain. Only power up the components you actually intend to use. They're inert devices serving in the role of plugs. 5 minutes and you've either solved for that equation or eliminated the unused plugs as factors.

Good luck!

faster100 · February 2005

Ok i do have a ground from the meter to a ground rod, and then from there to a water pipe (outside spigot) so the house is grounded, next is, plug up all those other in/out jacks and see what happens, again Thanks for all the attention to my problem..

disneyjoe7 · February 2005

Originally posted by faster100
Ok i do have a ground from the meter to a ground rod, and then from there to a water pipe (outside spigot) so the house is grounded, next is, plug up all those other in/out jacks and see what happens, again Thanks for all the attention to my problem..

Faster,

Do you have a sub panel box also for electric? If so there could be a problem there also. I have to tell you a story I once wired new recessed lights 50w halogen bulbs 6 total, turned them on and all UPS in house went ****. First thinking it was the inrush current of 6 halogen bulbs, not realized that my wiring was F'up I use some cheap of brand romex tighten the strain relieve to much shorted in the cable jack the Hot to Ground. If my Ground for the house panel was right it would have blown the circuit breaker, it wasn't done right when the house was built. Since the house was 7 years old, and it passed all inspections it left me scracing. I left these lights on while my wife was cooking (Thank God nothing to awful happen) but she got Electrocuted while opening oven door on the stove, (the house being small same for the kitchen) when the oven door was open the dishwasher door couldn't be, being right angles to their other. The oven being 240v with 3 wiring plug no ground, the dishwasher being 120v 3 wire with a ground there was 120v between oven door and dishwasher door she hit the dishwasher door with her arm while opening the oven door.

I didn't even believe this my self at first. Not behave enough to touch this myself, I took up a meter to my shocked self read 122vac. Knowing this couldn't be right talking to several people not getting anywhere my wife know she needed to ask an master electrician from her work to stop by and check for her and my peace of mind. I didn't even believe the look on this electricians face when he read the continuity between ground and neutral. Turning to me and saying I surprised this house hasn't burnt to the ground. Sorry to say don't trust anyone anymore, do to this and other events in my life.

The problem with this sub panel it wasn't meant to be one, it was a main panel. So the Ground was never hook up it floated in the whole house. It was reworked / rewired after fixing this problem.

BTW to was my old house. Own another now. Old house was in Florida also.

faster100 · February 2005

Man, thats not good...

well heres an update... tried filling the in/outs and that didnt work.. retightened the outside grounds, finally moved my amp, pre, cd and one speaker to the kitchen (different circuit ) and it is dead quiet!

By the way, I DON'T have a HUM, its a slight hiss, which i can live with, and a BUZZ and that's what is driveing me crazy... It didnt do it in the kicthen with amp on only, amp and pre, and amp, pre and cd on, playing....

So we can assume the problem is between the outlets in the living room/ florida room.. Those rooms are daisy chained together and run on one 15 amp breaker, I also unplugged everything in these 2 room and tried the amp and it still buzzed..

Its in the wireing somewhere in these 2 rooms..

Any suggestions? I'm calling the yahoo's that wired this house last year, they better get to fixin ****.. i keep calling and he keeps "not calling back" when he says he will.. so damm the one room with problems is my 2 channel room... damm!!

disneyjoe7 · February 2005

Originally posted by faster100

So we can assume the problem is between the outlets in the living room/ florida room.. Those rooms are daisy chained together and run on one 15 amp breaker, I also unplugged everything in these 2 room and tried the amp and it still buzzed..

Faster,

This living room outlet is this the first outlet in this chain? If so try to kill the other half of the circuits, since you stated they are daisy chained to together. Also check to see if the kitchen outlet and this livingroom outlet are on different feeds / legs from the main source.

Other then this try to change breakers or change this wiring phase swap to breakers next to each other.

faster100 · February 2005

the problem is, somehow they hooked these 2 rooms through the outside outlet, it has 2 separete breakers (outside outlet) (living room/fla room) however when the ground fault outlet in the outside box went bad it also took the electric out in these 2 rooms, so some how they have the 2 lines together but on 2 breakers, Its confusing to say the least.. in the breaker box outside their is one piece of romex and 2 of the wires out of it ( red i think) are going to each breaker, living room, and outside as marked on the panel.. they just need to look at it... Its not the gear so thats all im concerned with, next concern is if this wireing is safely done..

Ok heres one for ya to figure out, strange

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