Dean/Klip Helppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

fabian1 · March 2002

Dean, can you post that site for Klip,whatever, I feel like a fight with those Bose suckers........Fabian:mad: :mad: :mad: :mad:

jcaut · March 2002

I'll do it: Klipsch

Go get 'em.

Jason

fabian1 · March 2002

I have done it my handle is STUDS LONIGAN, And under general comments thread Bose does not suck I let them have it. I hope Justin is happy now that his bad temper decease has spread to Australia......

Boseman3 · March 2002

Gee, thanks for letting us have it there Fabian. Want a fight huh? Some people are just soooo mature.

--Boseman3

Micah Cohen · March 2002

Uh oh. It's a Bose person on the Polk forum. (Or Boseman3 is from Montana. Could be?)

Quick, everyone pay attention... It's weekend. Which means I won't be looking at this for a couple days.

If I come back and find bad behavior -- nastiness, uncivility, immaturity (more immaturity than usual, I mean) -- there will be heck to pay.

Please, please please... Let's be nice and welcome everyone here: we are the Polk family, and we need to act like our actions and words reflect on all of us. People who are here are here because, like Dean said, they want to be part of this unique family we have. Let's be understanding and accepting. And nice.

Or I'll kill ya.

Micah

fabian1 · March 2002

Where is your sense of humour, LIVE LONG AND PROSPER, so long as you see the light and buy proper audio from Polk.:D

billlb · March 2002

I'm with you my friend from down under. Maybe the bose people can start there own group. {It would probably cost money to help with there advertising though} They just WISH they owned a good pair of POLKS. bose has the ultimate {MARKETING} or shall we say advertising in the country just like thompson's water seal {wood conditioner} Everyone I come across as a builder thinks they are the best in the universe. HA! HA! HA! It's the worst and I tell them, it's so watered down that it's pure CRAP. Think at what marketing can do. Then there is bose $1299.00 for some sparrow sized speakers with a 4" so called woofer in a box {sucker} And I almost forgot the PURE **** stereo wave radio {with one speaker in it} isn't that false advertising and telling people LIES.......Oh! did I forget there advertising speaker paul harvey {mr. "good day"} because of the funds that he gets from bose to tell people that will listen to his lies. I would have many many many good days with the kind of funding he gets too. Buy a good pair of POLKS and see what youve been missing.......

billlb · March 2002

Oh boy! is this gonna spark something . Don't worry bose people the klipsch or whatever they are called are worse. I call them rummage sale speakers in a shoe box sound. How can a speaker manufacture sound so terrible??? If they only knew what they REALLY are missing.......

fabian1 · March 2002

They have no heart, I belive Matt Polk is a true Gentleman as his product displays genuine quality at a honest fair price, without any marketing crap. Sorry Micah if this BOSE bashing offends but there really should be laws against companys that rip people off via stealth lies and BOSE are very, yes very good at that. Regards Fabian:rolleyes:

billlb · March 2002

FABIAN: I first heard polks back in the late 80's when they first came out and was so impressed I bought a pair of 10's. My salesman and I became friends and we would always talk about Polk. I told him some day I will own a pair of sda srs's. As time went by my friend got to meet Matthew Polk. He was so impressed with M. P. with his PASSION in speaker technology, the caring for customers, and how down to earth and friendly he was. Even though my friend was just a salesman M. P. told him to contact him if ever any problems. {BEAT THAT COMPETITORS} I have always wanted to meet him after that and talk to him about that and tell him what I personally own, partly because of that. I felt at that time and now that there goods if anything are underpriced for their QUALITY. He truly is a Honest Gentleman, with Quality. They only need to market their goods better so people will know how to buy right. Maybe he will reed this and hire me. Ya, I could move to Maryland if the price was right listening to my srs's sipping on some wine.......bill

fabian1 · March 2002

Bill, thanks for the reply, Its funny how one can judge people/companys by the product and aftersales service they provide. Here I am on the other side of the world and we share the same opinion. I must admit I hope to one day have the pleasure of meeting Matt Polk, & Micah, and yes you to Justin and say thankyou for being the people they are and giving us the great sound that is affordable and free of GIMMICKS, kind regards and good health to all, Fabian

billlb · March 2002

Fabian: Service it what it's all about. If you got a good product like polk, you can back it up period. I take pride in giving the ultimate service I can give in building. I've been told I do too much, that's what motivates me and gets me more jobs. The word of mouth , not much advertising. If you ever come to America, you will always be welcome in our home. I just hope you wouldn't mind some good old fashioned German and Italian food with great hospitality. We would check out some A/V stores. {I would buy some cd's or headphones for my wife---ha! ha!} Maybe someday King MATT will read these and pick his top ten dedicated POLK addics and give them an all expense paid trip to the big show in POLK AUDIO. Hmmm! I wonder who the other 8 would be????????

joe logston · March 2002

question for bose man 3 did you come to this forum to see if polks are better than bose. there is no question that polk is better, so if you can sell those bose and we can give you a new name polk man 3 dose that sound better, i know that the polks will sound better

CHRIS · March 2002

I'm not for Blose speakers in any way. A while back when I went to my parent's house they had just gotten one in the mail. They hated it and sent it back but sure enough there are 2 speakers in there. Those little cubes with no crossover must sound great to ya there Bloseman.

dean/klipschead · March 2002

Fabian,

Be careful over there. That thread was started by Ray Garrison and he is one of the coolest, most intelligent people on our site. You need to read his first post and take the 'Bose does not Suck' thing in context. He was for the most part being sarcastic.

Everyone who knows anything about Audio knows they sound mediocre at best.

Discounting Bose - some of you are falling into the 'ours sounds better than theirs' mind set. This is completely fruitless as this whole thing is completely subjective.

I like many speakers and wouldn't mind owning one of each. The problem is money and space - so I go with something that I think I can live with the longest.

Billb said: "Don't worry Bose people, the Klipsch or whatever they are called are worse. I call them rummage sale speakers in a shoe box sound...If they only knew what they REALLY are missing."

I find that description comical. If anything - the original horn sound has a bit of a P.A. quality to it.

Klipsch makes three separate lines of speakers now and each has completely different sonic signature. Which are you referring to?

The Heritage Series is the original. Typical horn sound. Very up front sounding with brutal clarity. These are the ones most people think of when horns are brought up. I like these the least. They are too forward for my tastes. Anything but a 'shoe box' sound.

The new Reference Series. Forward still but not like Heritage. Warmer sounding with lots of slam and loads of low level detail. Audiophile level sound. Well reviewed. No 'shoe box sound here either. These are my personal favorite.

The Synergy Series. The budget line. Warmer still. Sound more like 'normal' speakers. Great starting point for people who want to 'test the waters'.

I am not 'missing' anything. I will buy a set of Polks to have something 'different' to listen to - not because I believe they are the most accurate reproducers of music. If you want to hear things the way they really sound - get horns.

Here are some 'shoe boxes' for you:

http://www.klipsch.com/photo_gal/rf7copper.jpg

And something to help you understand them:

Why horns?

A loudspeaker using a horn design has the ability to play louder, with lower levels of distortion, than a conventional speaker using direct radiators. The way the horn achieves this performance advantage is by coupling the motion of the solid diaphragm to the fluid air more efficiently. This reduces diaphragm motion and therefore lowers distortion. In other words, a horn-loaded loudspeaker will be able to play louder with the same amount of input power and with lower levels of distortion. Another way to look at it that horns increase the effective radiating area of the drive element (diaphragm). The relatively small diaphragm has the output of a diaphragm the size of the horn mouth. Another advantage of horns is their ability to provide a precise and consistent coverage pattern. This allows the designer to control where the sound goes.

Aren't horns an outdated design?

Although horns were one of the earliest methods used to reproduce sound (i.e. megaphones or Edison's early phonographs), they are just as appropriate now, if not more so, than in the past.

Moving past Edison's early non-electronic phonographs into the era of amplified sound, horns played an important part in reproducing realistic listening levels. Early amplifiers were mono and very low powered. In today's electronic world of high-powered amplifiers, it's easy to forget the first amplifiers had only a few watts of power. If one wanted to reproduce realistic listening levels, horns were a natural because of their high efficiency and low distortion.

Horns played an important part in the motion picture industry from the beginning and are still utilized today in the vast majority of movie theaters.

The development of digital recording and playback technology has increased the amount of dynamic range a system must reproduce.

As we move through the third millennium, horns are once again a natural because of their high efficiency, low distortion and wide dynamic range.

What is a compression driver and what does it do?

In a horn-loaded system, the power amplifier drives a small and lightweight diaphragm, the heart of the compression driver assembly. The size and weight of the diaphragm enables it to respond accurately to the amplifier's instructions. The sound waves generated by the diaphragm are then forced through the phase plug immediately in front of the diaphragm. The phase plug is typically a slotted device that restricts the air flow path from the diaphragm. This causes a compression effect, which reduces diaphragm motion and is the first step in coupling the diaphragm motion to the air. Coupling the compression driver to a horn provides a frequency response capability the size of the mouth of the horn, as well as an improved acoustical load on the diaphragm. The results are improved coverage patterns, crisp transient response and lower levels of distortion.

More of the input power fed to a horn becomes acoustic output, and less is converted to heat in the voice coil and drive assembly. The build-up of excessive heat in the voice coil is typically what causes a speaker to fail. The result is a speaker system that is more reliable and offers a longer service life than a comparable direct radiator system.

To illustrate efficiency and directivity, Paul Klipsch used a standard 4" midrange driver in a sealed box. He designed a special adapter that would allow the driver to be run with and without horn loading, and used the same amount of input power to run the driver in both configurations.

Sensitivity is the combined result of efficiency and directivity. Before the horn was added, the driver had 85dB of output with one watt of input power. When the driver was coupled with a horn, the average level of output rose to approximately 100dB, a 15dB improvement in output! This is equivalent to a 32-fold increase in amplifier power.

Paul Klipschs' analogy is that if you take a piston (diaphragm) and slosh it up and down in the middle of a lake, you can't pump water. But if you put a cylinder (horn) around the piston, then when you move up, you can lift the water and do some work.

What is controlled directivity?

The ability to focus the output (acoustical energy) at the listening area is called controlled directivity. Controlled directivity reduces room interaction and improves articulation. Horns have the ability to provide controlled directivity.

The horn loaded system makes it possible to focus desired levels of output directly at the listening area. With the direct radiator system, some of the output reaches the listening area, while the balance of the output bounces back into the listening area from the side walls, floors and ceiling, smearing the sound.

A speaker with a proper directivity index (DI) will be able to accurately cover the listening area with the desired information, resulting in better stereo imaging and improved articulation. A good analogy would be a comparison between concert seats in the fifth row, directly in front of the musicians, and seats in the back of the auditorium underneath the balcony, where the direct sound reaches you after having mixed with the reflected sound being bounced off the side walls, floors and ceiling. Most people would choose the fifth row over the back of the auditorium, but a quick check of ticket prices should confirm the analogy.

What is flat frequency response?

Perfectly flat frequency response would result in equal loudness produced (at one point in space) for any frequency input at a uniform voltage level.

A design goal of every speaker manufacturer is to achieve "flat frequency response". Typically, this is measured directly in front of the speaker at one point in space. It is only one small piece of information about the entire power radiated in all directions. Most speakers have no trouble testing well for frequency response in an anechoic (without echo) chamber, but once you put any system in your house, its dispersion pattern causes the speaker to react with the room. These room reflections introduce peaks and dips in the total response at the listening seat.

Controlled directivity, the focusing of sound directly at the listening area, results in Klipsch speaker systems achieving a flatter frequency response in a normally reverberant room such as your living room. By focusing its energy at the listening area, the horn system interacts less with the room, making the position of the speakers less critical to optimum performance.

fabian1 · March 2002

Bill, sorry its taken a while to get back to you, amazingly our backgrounds are very simalar. I will not go into to much detail on the forum but if you want to email me under my profile with your email address feel free, and I will be happy to discuss my family, background, etc. Thankyou for your invitation of your hospitality and we also offer the same to you and your family. Do not worry about the food as our b/grounds are much the same. Kind regards & good health to you and your family, Fabian

fabian1 · March 2002

G,Day Dean, thanks for your advice and firstly I would like to clear the air by saying you refer to the other site as being our site, thats ok but mate this site is also your site as well, as Micah said we are indeed a family on the Polk forum and you are part of that family, I hope that does not offend you. your knowlegde regarding audio is amazing so mate we need that kind of input on this forum. I checked the other site and veiwing the responses after my reply everyone agrees, which is great as I hate offending anyone. Your detailed reply regarding horns is spot on, B&W speakers make a tubular speaker named I think the Nautilis which is designed with a simular line, and the cost around 35K US here in Australia, huge bucks, maybe one day, anyway when an Aussie calls you mate that makes you family so on behalf of the Polk Forum, Mate welcome to the family, Kind regards Fabian

OrangeToupee · March 2002

Dean, I very nearly purchased a pair of RB-5's a little while back, but decided on Polk's RT35i's instead. I read about both of them extensively, but never actually listened to either, I know that doesn't sound very smart. Anyhoo, I've always wondered what they sound like. Any comments on that speaker?

dean/klipschead · March 2002

I owned the RB5's for over two years. That was the speaker that originally usurped my Magnepans.

Tight, punchy, fast with lots of clarity, and a wide open soundstage.

I consider it one of the best sounding speakers I've heard.

I'm hoping the LSi9 is as fun to listen to.

That's what it is all about - it's the 'fun' factor that matters!

matthew_2 · March 2002

Dean, are you DeanG from the Klipsch forum?

dean/klipschead · March 2002

yep -- it's me

raycomics · March 2002

OK..... After viewing the previous posts, I feel that I am qualified to post on this subject. I own a pair of Polk 10Bs, Bose 601s (Series II), and Klipsch Heresys (1984 vintage).

I love listening to them all! I change my speakers often for the pure enjoyment of the audio experience.

I cannot for the life of me understand why people love one brand of speakers and absolutely hate everything else. If you like what you have, then why bash what others own?

It seems to me that the "Mine is Better Than Yours" Syndrome is something that you grow out of by the time you get to attend Middle School.

Its all about the pleasure you experience from listening to source material from whatever brand, be it Radio Shack or Wilson Watt Puppy.

To all the Bose Bashers, try listening to vintage 501s, 601s, and 901s for an extended period and you might just change your negative opinions.

I love the warm, detailed sound coming out of the Heresys when matched w/Tubes.

I have owned the 10bs since 1977 and they will always be my "First Audio Loves".

Please remember that Happiness is not getting what you want, but ENJOYING what you have!

You ARE my Brothers and Sisters, so cut it out, OK?

TrappedUnder Ice · March 2002

no..you have it wrong... we love all speakers...just not bose

billlb · March 2002

And not klipsch...

kanicker · March 2002

You know, I like Klipsch for HT... and their computer speakers clearly best anything else out there...

But some music just doesnt sound right on them... as a whole.
I havent heard the ancient Klipsch of yore that has such a reputation.

Andy14 · March 2002

You are all right, klipsch speakers will sound like crap... if you play them with cheap, low quality components. You simply can't say they sound like crap. They don't. Sure, everyone has different tastes, but quality is not that subjective. klipsch has that quality. you are ignorant if you think they don't. How could there be hundreds of dealers and thousands of pairs of ears that say otherwise. Have you simply realized something that no one else has figured out yet? nope, you're just being ignorant, a jerk, or both.

Aaron · March 2002

You simply can't say they sound like crap.

They sound like crap. See, it wasn't that hard.

All jokes aside, those are some pretty harsh words from someone who just joined the forum today.

Aaron

wangotango68 · March 2002

ouch that hurt!

scott:D

billlb · March 2002

andy 14---I'm trying to figure out if that's your age or IQ ? I figure your post was at approx. 4:30, just after you got home from school and had your mom's milk and cookies ? Well your'e starting your first post real well. It must be your klipschcrackhead too much HORN BLARING so called shoe box **** music spkrs. Your's ears are shot boy ! You wouldn't know good sound if it were in front of you. [Isn't that obvious} Listen to your first statement---"YOU ARE ALL RIGHT, KLIPSCH SPEAKERS WILL SOUND LIKE CRAP" That's the only thing you really know what you are talking about. Another-"how could there be hundreds of dealers"---EASY MATH son---It's called $$$ percentage of a sale for a salesman. You have to do that for inferior products. Another-"thousands of ears that say otherwise" Well all I can say is WHAT ABOUT THE MULTI-MILLIONS THAT DON'T . Oh! by the way- multi-millions is a whole lot more than thousands. Yes we ALL {except you klipschhangers} have figured something out a whole long time ago called PURE MUSIC...In case you haven't figured it out yet, I think your'e in the wrong group son {your horn blasted ears are affecting you...OUCH ! ! ! How's your first post son ?.......

shack · March 2002

Andy14 - The first time "ignorant, a jerk" poster quoted

How could there be hundreds of dealers and thousands of pairs of ears that say otherwise.

One word - Bose

Aaron · March 2002

Bill, relax man. So he likes Klipsch speakers, oh well. To each his own. There's no need (as of yet) to respond with even greater personal attacks than he displayed. Let's try to remain civilized. I'm not trying to jump down your throat here; I'm just trying to maintain the peace.

Aaron

Dean/Klip Helppppppppppppppppppppppppppp

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