Is it Time

MacLeod

Its my understanding that the frequency reponse and others are actual measurements and not simulations.

shiu

Originally posted by aaharvel
Heiny makes a great point about personal listening environments and reference gear.

I replaced a Sony DE935 with a harman kardon 235 at less than half of the advertised watts. Yet there was No comparison which sounded better (i think you guys can figure that one out yourselves

I am glad that you clarify it. I thought earlier on you were talking about a Sony ES. I traded in my Sony STR-DA4ES (weighs 46 lbs) for a Denon 3805. I thought the Denon sounded a bit better but not by much. I listened to many HK models including the AVR7200, 630 etc., they sure sound nice but I wouldn't say they are much different than my Ex Sony ES or my 3805. I am now using an Adcom 555 with the Denon, manily for power.

Amps do sound different to me, but nothing compare to difference between speakers. I don't think anyone would have problem picking out Polk RTi from LSI, Energy from KEF etc.

heiney9

Originally posted by MacLeod
Its my understanding that the frequency reponse and others are actual measurements and not simulations.

Not sure I understand where you're coming from with this statement. All measurements are actual, the "input" is simulated. Thus the measurement is not a measurement that can be replicated using a real audio signal (music). Measurements are obtained using a sine wave at a certain amplitude. This is a "constant" input for a given frequency. A real audio signal (music) is constantly changing, usually very rapidly, in frequency and amplitude. They don't/can't measure equipment that way. Thus the specs are obtained using simulation.

Did you read any of the 2 articles I linked to earlier. If you did, you wouldn't be making the above statement. If you aren't at least going to make a small effort to understand why....then this is going nowhere fast.

:eek:

H9

EDIT: I didn't talk about the load (speakers). The load is also simulated, many times it's represented as a constant figure. In real life the load (speakers) increase and decrease with the changing amplitude and frequency of the (real) music signal.

heiney9

This is the link that explain specs....read it if you really want to understand

http://www.rocketroberts.com/techart/powerart_a.htm

H9

heiney9

In my last post I didn't talk about the load (speakers). The load is also simulated, many times it's represented as a constant figure (8 Ohm or 4 Ohm). In real life the load (speakers) increase and decrease with the changing amplitude and frequency of the (real) music signal.

So this is another part of the puzzle that explains why specs are subjective.

H9

MacLeod

All Ill say is for 20 years there have been double blind tests done by many different people. Audio engineers, magazines, car audio gurus, home audio gurus, you name it, and for 20 years nobody has ever shown they can tell the difference between 2 different amp.

No matter how much bobbing an weaving you do, the bottom line is 20 years of proof is there.

Go take the challenge yourself. Maybe youll be the first one to win the $10,000. Im all about proof. You take the challenge and prove you can tell a difference and Ill be the first one to congratulate you and admit I was wrong.

Belief without proof is religion!

heiney9

Originally posted by MacLeod
All Ill say is for 20 years there have been double blind tests done by many different people. Audio engineers, magazines, car audio gurus, home audio gurus, you name it, and for 20 years nobody has ever shown they can tell the difference between 2 different amp.

No matter how much bobbing an weaving you do, the bottom line is 20 years of proof is there.

Go take the challenge yourself. Maybe youll be the first one to win the $10,000. Im all about proof. You take the challenge and prove you can tell a difference and Ill be the first one to congratulate you and admit I was wrong.

Belief without proof is religion!

This must be the best kept secret in the world Some kind of government conspiracy.

As far as bobbing and weaving......everything I stated is soild audio theory and is backed up by mathematics, and is just as factual as said 20 years of dbl blind tests. I'm still not swayed.

Rock on brother.....we just have 2 different ways of looking at the same situation. It's been a pleasure

Peace Out

H9

P.S. Just because it's real; doesn't mean it's true.

RSTERN

It's here! Ordered on sunday, here on tuesday. WOW! Picture quailty is great. Everything is so sharp now. Will try some music on when the kid settle down.
Thanks for the help.
Rob