Source vs Speakers...read the conditions first

2

Comments

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2005
    Steve,

    For the record, I didn't take anything you said personally, nor do I believe I mis-took your intent. On this subject matter I will agree to disagree with you and it looks like a lot of others too.....lol.

    Jesse
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    The singular "Source" choice was probably Lush, as he always supports that position in other threads.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Crazed
    Crazed Posts: 60
    edited February 2005
    1) Speakers
    2) Room Load
    3) Source/Pre (I've heard both make a difference)
    4) Amps
    5) The little wire thingies
    Main System:
    PreAmp: Rotel 1098 with MF X-10v3
    Amp: Rotel 1090, 1075, 1070
    Source: Pro-Ject RM9 with Blackbird Cart., Denon 2900 with MF X-DACv3
    Speakers: Gallo Ref 3s (LR), Gallo Due (C, SR, SL), Gallo Micro (RR, RL)


    Second System:
    Receiver: H/K AVR 630
    Source: Pioneer 563
    Speakers: Polk RTi10s (LR), CSi5 (C), RTR 200 (SR, SL)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Frank Z
    Frank Z Posts: 5,860
    edited February 2005
    Tough call. Speakers are going to color the sound based on their design and unique characteristics. The source can also sevelry impact what your hearing based on its design, build quality, sampling rate, etc.

    I'll pass on voting officially and just state that trial and error are sometimes the best teacher when it comes to audio and video equipment. I don't think that anyone can state with 100% certainty that 1 piece of the puzzle is more important than the others. There are simply to many counterpoints to each arguement, and all of us are going to base our comments on a purely subjective opinion.

    No where did I put my asbestos G-string......
    9/11 - WE WILL NEVER FORGET!! (<---<<click)
    2005-06 Club Polk Football Pool Champion!! :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by F1nut
    On this subject matter I will agree to disagree with you and it looks like a lot of others too.....lol.
    At least you have to admit that it's easier for you to disagree sitting 7' in front of pair of 2.3 tl's... ;)
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2005
    Bruce......:D

    Mark, that was my vote.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    I see, well sorry for your choice then.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • beardog03
    beardog03 Posts: 5,550
    edited February 2005
    Maybe it`s cause I`m fairly new to all this, but I thought it was a valid question...

    Almost all of my gear is new to me and I have found that with the amp , pre , and cdp that I`m using ...I can tell the most difference between the speakers now...

    I also can tell the difference between my Parasound amp , and the bridged Rotels...

    I think there is no "right" answer to the question...
    Just a more reasonable one...

    no matter what combo I am using...I think the speakers are one of the biggest factors in my system

    In my humble, yet uninformed opinion...

    just like the tubes I have been trying...each set of speakers that I have, make what I have, sound different from set to set..

    I now have my asbestos boxers on backwards awaiting flamage..!
    :D:( :eek:

    if garbage in means garbage out...
    won`t the garbage sound better with a better set of speakers ?
    Cary SLP-98L F1 DC Pre Amp (Jag Blue)
    Parasound HCA-3500
    Cary Audio V12 amp (Jag Red)
    Polk Audio Xm Reciever (Autographed by THE MAN Himself) :cool:
    Magnum Dynalab MD-102 Analog Tuna
    Jolida JD-100 CDP
    Polk Audio LSi9 Speaks (ebony)
    SVS PC-Ultra Sub
    AQ Bedrock Speaker Cables (Bi-Wired)
    MIT Shotgun S1 I/C`s
    AQ Black Thunder Sub Cables
    PS Audio Plus Power Cords
    Magnum Dynalab ST-2 FM Antenna
    Sanus Cherry wood Speak Stands
    Adona AV45CS3 / 3 Tier Rack (Black /Gold)

    :cool:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2005
    Don't be sorry for my choice, I'm not.

    Here's a similar thread from another site if anyone is open minded enough to read it. It's actually a little more balanced than this one.

    http://forum.audiogon.com/cgi-bin/fr.pl?ddgtl&1104997830&read&keyw&zzspeakers+vs+source
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • danger boy
    danger boy Posts: 15,722
    edited February 2005
    cables make the biggest difference. :p

    <runs and hides>
    PolkFest 2012, who's going>?
    Vancouver, Canada Sept 30th, 2012 - Madonna concert :cheesygrin:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Toxis
    Toxis Posts: 5,116
    edited February 2005
    I'd say the furniture has the most to do with it. I mean, it's all in how your equipment sits on the rack. Oh oh, and speaker stands too!
    Never kick a fresh **** on a hot day.

    Home Setup: Sony VPL-VW85 Projo, 92" Stewart Firehawk, Pioneer Elite SC-65, PS3, RTi12 fronts, CSi5, FXi6 rears, RTi6 surround backs, RTi4 height, MFW-15 Subwoofer.

    Car Setup: OEM Radio, RF 360.2v2, Polk SR6500 quad amped off 4 Xtant 1.1 100w mono amps, Xtant 6.1 to run an eD 13av.2, all Stinger wiring and Raammat deadener.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    Magic bricks and micro-pebbles make the biggest difference.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    There's nothing about choosing speakers over source that's not "open minded" Mr. Intellectual. Where's your smiley face or should we all take that to mean we're not on your level?

    Hmmm....doesn't sound like my SDA's....hmmm doesn't sound like my SDA's....hmmm doesn't sound like my SDA's. Broken record.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2005
    My point in the whole thing is that there is a much more substantial difference in sound quality/coloration on the speaker side than the source side.

    I mean, SDA's with adequate power and just about any CD player will sound much better (imo) than $100K of electronics driving the speakers from some $50 boom box.

    Here's my reasoning: Electronics, especially digital, only have 1 answer: the source material. No matter what pre/amp/cdp you have, the goal is to have the same go out as came in. The main question here: Does the output match the input

    Speakers on the other hand are much more interpretive. These questions go more along the lines of: This is what I believe a kick drum should sound like. This is what I think and accoustic guitar should sound like.

    Also, a speaker designer must make more sacrifices in that they must balance speaker size, efficiency, cost, etc... where a source supplier really only needs to worry about cost. The other items are made to fit the cost point. (This is simplified but I hope you get the point)
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited February 2005
    IMHO source MATERIAL is the largest factor in SQ satisfaction. Half-assed engineering/production cannot be overcome with any component in the chain. Find a recording that knocks your socks off and follow the discography of the personnel with their fingers on the board sliders. Source material like that will sound pretty damn good on whatever you can afford or prefer.

    Edit - Ooops! Like minds typing in unison. You were ALL wrong except jdh :cool:
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by BlueMDPicker
    Edit - Ooops! Like minds typing in unison. You were ALL wrong except jdh :cool:

    Awww man, how come I always get excluded from everything... :(
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    My point in the whole thing is that there is a much more substantial difference in sound quality/coloration on the speaker side than the source side.


    Bravo! Thank you brother, my point exactly.

    Sure, in a system all things are important (read that: synergy), but some impact the overall sound more than others. I agree whole heartedly that source is a very close number "2" but if I have an extra $1000 bucks to spend, it's going into speakers--because in my experience, there's just not much (audible) difference between a $800 CDP and $1800 one, aside from exotic materials and asthetics. However, speaker quality can be very dramatic between an $800/pr and an $1800/pr--at least thats been my experience.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by BlueMDPicker
    IMHO source MATERIAL is the largest factor in SQ satisfaction. Half-assed engineering/production cannot be overcome with any component in the chain. Find a recording that knocks your socks off and follow the discography of the personnel with their fingers on the board sliders. Source material like that will sound pretty damn good on whatever you can afford or prefer.


    ABSOLUTELY. I'm sure we all own CD's that make our system's sound like $29 boom boxes, at least I know I do. Nazareth, Hair of the Dog comes to mind first---that CD now does duty as a beer coaster.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 50,546
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by dorokusai
    There's nothing about choosing speakers over source that's not "open minded" Mr. Intellectual. Where's your smiley face or should we all take that to mean we're not on your level?

    Hmmm....doesn't sound like my SDA's....hmmm doesn't sound like my SDA's....hmmm doesn't sound like my SDA's. Broken record.

    You wake up on the wrong side of the bed again? You took that all wrong.

    Your personal attacks are unwarranted nor do I run around saying what you wrote.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dragon1952
    dragon1952 Posts: 4,899
    edited February 2005
    Boy, ya take one day off to get a hose shoved up your **** and miss the big fight....rats! :mad:
    2 channel - Willsenton R8 tube integrated, Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE DAC, audio optimized NUC7i5, Windows 10 Pro/JRiver MC29/Fidelizer Plus 8.7 w/LPS and external SSD drive, PS Audio PerfectWave P3 regenerator, KEF R3 speakers, Rythmik F12SE subwoofer, Audioquest Diamond USB cable, Gabriel Gold IC's, Morrow Audio SP5 speaker cables. Computer - Windows 10/JRiver, Schiit Magni 3+/Modi 3+, Fostex PMO.4n monitors, Sennheiser HD600 headphones
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    It reads like it reads, sorry.

    As for not "finding my sound", please, I have all kinds of things to choose from and it has nothing to do with "finding my sound".

    I choose to not be stuck in an endless loop of rhetoric.

    Dragon1952 - No fight here, just a difference of opinion, nothing more nothing less.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • scottnbnj
    scottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by steveinaz
    Which component will have the most notable effect on overall sound?

    if the nut between the speakers is insecure, true audio nirvana can not be comprehended, much less attained, even if the path to it fills the room.

    )
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    Did Dan tell you to say that?

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • scottnbnj
    scottnbnj Posts: 709
    edited February 2005
    oh yeah,.. everybody is lobbying ~me~ to come down on their side of the issue.

    )
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • tonyv1
    tonyv1 Posts: 365
    edited February 2005
    Back to the Poll:
    Speakers!
    When I decided I wanted Maggies, I knew that I needed an amp with some BALLS. So I started with the Parasound HCA-1500A. I'm currently using an Anthem AMP 2 with a tube preamp (Anthem PRE 2L SE) of course.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    Tony - I picked up a pair of MMG's....I'm really liking them....and thinking of bigger already :)
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Tour2ma
    Tour2ma Posts: 10,177
    edited February 2005
    MMG's, eh? sweet... Sitting just to the outside and 1.5' or so in front of your SDA's? And toed in of course...

    Used 1.6's are becoming both a little more available and affordable so be on the lookout... Awesome at their price point... even new. The best imaging speaker I've laid my ears on...



    Meanwhile, back at the poll...

    Speakers are numero uno... If they're not worthy, how you going to hear the nuances in different sources, wire, etc.?
    More later,
    Tour...
    Vox Copuli
    Better to remain silent and be thought a fool, than to open your mouth and remove all doubt. - Old English Proverb

    "Death doesn't come with a Uhaul." - Dennis Gardner
    "It's easy to get lost in price vs performance vs ego vs illusion." - doro
    "There is a certain entertainment value in ripping the occaisonal (sic) buttmunch..." - TroyD
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • dorokusai
    dorokusai Posts: 25,577
    edited February 2005
    SDA's? I haven't listened to SDA's in months honcho. SDA is SDA, I know that sound by heart, time to move on.

    I'm digging the MMG's and I'm picking up a pair of vintage Mag 2A's tomorrow.
    CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint.
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    Doro,

    Hot **** man! Are those little things sweet or what? MMG's at $550/pair delivered to the house is one of the best deals of all-time. Unfortunately, my ex-neighbor Dean (divorce) moved out about 3 months ago. The 4 MMG's in one room was really special. He was driving them with some kind of Rotel multi-channel power amp, and it was a great match.

    That's good news you're branching out substantially.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited February 2005
    Doro --

    I've heard good things about the MMG's. Just wondering what you did to fill in the bass. Also, what's your room size? How far do you have them from the back wall?

    Trying to see if they could possibly fit in my environment.
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter