CD vs DVD...you might be surprised

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  • mantis
    mantis Posts: 17,194
    edited February 2005
    Yes George I agreed with you. Rare but will happen from time to time. Hell I even agree with Troy from time to time.

    I find it more pleasing when we get along.

    Dan
    Dan
    My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    This is all so strange. It's like.......being magically transported inside Yankee Stadium.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • BlueMDPicker
    BlueMDPicker Posts: 7,569
    edited February 2005
    :D

    Thanks George! The five minutes spent cleaning the coffee spray off the monitor was well worth the laugh.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    Then something was broken in the one you replaced. A CD player is just a DAC and a transport. All it does is convert digital 1/0 to and analog signal. Only so many ways to do this and with the computing horspower available for such little $$$ that the difference in DACs is much smaller than the difference between speakers.

    All speakers have a woofer, tweeter, crossover and box. They all use standard box and driver construction and normally conform to the theil small parameters for box size. The crossovers all use standard caps, inductors and resistors. If you hear differences they must be blown or something.

    A little silly huh?

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    Sorry Blue. Didn't realize you knew I was still a Brooklyn Dodger fan.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    Mechanical diffs vs electrical diffs Max.

    You could take your analogy and apply it to MOST motor vehicles. The statement wouldn't hold water.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by madmax
    All speakers have a woofer, tweeter, crossover and box. They all use standard box and driver construction and normally conform to the theil small parameters for box size. The crossovers all use standard caps, inductors and resistors. If you hear differences they must be blown or something.

    A little silly huh?

    madmax

    See the post in the other thread. The goals of all CD players and Amps are the same: Output the source signal in an analog form as closely as possible to the digital form.

    Speakers do not follow this. Can you imagine a CDP company creating their own "signature sound"? :rolleyes:

    Besides, your comparison makes little sense. Why not throw in a pointless car analogy while we're at it... ;)

    Sorry GG, you must have been typing the car thing same time I was. BTW: Still working on that package, unfortunately the deliverer makes the Hilton sisters look intelligent and responsible.
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2005
    HEY, HEY...whats wrong with car analogies? :D

    I think Maxs' point was that you may have over-simplified your wrap-up of a CD Player...that's my take anywho. It's kinda like a 4-cylinder.......





    ....kidding.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by jdhdiggs
    See the post in the other thread. The goals of all CD players and Amps are the same: Output the source signal in an analog form as closely as possible to the digital form.

    Speakers do not follow this. Can you imagine a CDP company creating their own "signature sound"? :rolleyes:

    Besides, your comparison makes little sense.

    I'll assume in the above quote you meant "... to form as closely as possible to the "original" form. No one wants to match a digital form. The idea is to match the analog form.

    The digital form on the CD (which is actually read into the player in analog form) is a very loose interpretation of the analog input. It is run through an algorithm to try and re-create (not reproduce) the original signal. The choice of algorithm used does in fact create a "signature sound". (Algorithm is just a fancy term which describes a method the processor uses to create an output). Just asking that you open up and think it through. Remember: "Recreate vs reproduce".

    The speaker vs CD analogy makes perfect sense in the engineering world. The difference is how it is sensed, not what is happening. And yes, steveinaz is correct by what I mean. :)

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2005
    Yup, original form. My bad.

    Yes, I am familiar with the algorythm form.. I worked on the Burr Brown, TI integration team for 3 years so the patronizing stuff is fairly humorous! ;) (And yes, that work and my experience with their catalog components led me to my beliefs as much as my real world trials)

    As for CDP signature sound, I sincerely doubt that anyone could reliably pick out the signature sound from similar level CDP's.

    Anyway, for added fun I suggest you go to dictionary.com and look up your definitions a bit. ;)

    Anyway, this whole thing is four hoofs in the air by now anyway. OUT!
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    Wasn't being patronizing. Which definition?
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • shack
    shack Posts: 11,154
    edited February 2005
    I worked on the Burr Brown, TI integration team for 3 years so the patronizing stuff is fairly humorous!
    So what...I stayed at a Holiday Inn Express last weekend...BFD!
    "Just because you’re offended doesn’t mean you’re right." - Ricky Gervais

    "For those who believe, no proof is necessary. For those who don't believe, no proof is possible." - Stuart Chase

    "Consistency requires you to be as ignorant today as you were a year ago." - Bernard Berenson
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    Oh now be nice. :) We are all here to pick up new info and we all believe certain things which may or may not be true. Especially me. :D

    Here is a CD for dummies article if anyone wants to read it. It is written for people at our level and is very easy to read.

    http://www.iar-80.com/page54.html

    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • Early B.
    Early B. Posts: 7,900
    edited February 2005
    Dammit, Max. You said your CD for dummies link would be very easy to read. Hell, after the third sentence I had to take a nap. :o
    HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50” LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub

    "God grooves with tubes."
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2005
    Ok, here's the deal, Q&D: Yes, upsampling, "premium" Dacs, transports etc.. can make a difference in your setup. But these, I veiw, are more for fine tuning your system once you have found your "sound" through the speakers.

    An FYI: for the TI related catalog of DSP/DAC/ whatever else all essentially use the same cores and functionality (algorythm if you will). The testing of the wafer then sorts out out the different products do to how fast they run. Then they pop some laser fuses on the slower ones and sell the various chips. In reality some TOTL Burr Brown based CDP could be using the same chip as the guy down the hall blasting his $50 boom box. Just one tested out faster or with less leakage, etc...
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    It couldn't have been that bad. Or maybe I was just dreaming...

    I found it especially interesting that the CD player recreates the sound rather than reproducing it. Maybe I'm just too geeky.
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • jdhdiggs
    jdhdiggs Posts: 4,305
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by madmax
    Maybe I'm just too geeky.

    Ditto here chief...
    There is no genuine justice in any scheme of feeding and coddling the loafer whose only ponderable energies are devoted wholly to reproduction. Nine-tenths of the rights he bellows for are really privileges and he does nothing to deserve them. We not only acquired a vast population of morons, we have inculcated all morons, old or young, with the doctrine that the decent and industrious people of the country are bound to support them for all time.-Menkin
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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by madmax

    Here is a CD for dummies article if anyone wants to read it. It is written for people at our level and is very easy to read.

    http://www.iar-80.com/page54.html

    madmax
    An interesting article on why one should buy the Toshiba SD3960 :)
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    jdhdiggs,

    I couldn't even tell you what this thread is about NOW!

    Grrr, package, package. YES! THE PACKAAAAAAGE!!

    I love you man.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)

    You other guys stay out of this and don't even ask. None of your business, you don't want any anyway. Anyhow. At all. You could die from it. It's bad. I'm only thinking of YOUR well being.
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by TheReaper
    An interesting article on why one should buy the Toshiba SD3960 :)

    You forgot to post the link. :)


    George, in no way would I want to even guess about the "package". :D
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • PolkThug
    PolkThug Posts: 7,532
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by madmax
    Oh now be nice. :) We are all here to pick up new info and we all believe certain things which may or may not be true. Especially me. :D

    Here is a CD for dummies article if anyone wants to read it. It is written for people at our level and is very easy to read.

    http://www.iar-80.com/page54.html

    madmax

    Have you tried altering the sound of your CD's by coloring the edge of the CD with a felt marker as the article suggests?
    Never Forget
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  • TheReaper
    TheReaper Posts: 636
    edited February 2005
    Originally posted by madmax
    You forgot to post the link. :)
    :confused: It is your link, didn't you read it yourself (the last 2 pages)?
    Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70
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  • madmax
    madmax Posts: 12,434
    edited February 2005
    :confused:
    madmax
    Vinyl, the final frontier...

    Avantgarde horns, 300b tubes, thats the kinda crap I want... :D
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  • steveinaz
    steveinaz Posts: 19,538
    edited February 2005
    Thats an awesome read. Long as hell, though.
    Source: Bluesound Node 2i - Preamp/DAC: Benchmark DAC2 DX - Amp: Parasound Halo A21 - Speakers: MartinLogan Motion 60XTi - Shop Rig: Yamaha A-S501 Integrated - Shop Spkrs: Elac Debut 2.0 B5.2
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2005
    Every cd I own has been treated with CD Stoplight, the original green marker which is more a paint than magic marker type thing.

    When I started using it, my ears were a lot younger, and I thought I heard a little less harshousity (new word, coined here) from the cd's I was treating.

    George Grand (of the Jersey Grands)
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