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haroo · January 2005

Originally posted by F1nut
Keep coming back.

OR as I love to say now "QUIT LOOKIN' BACK!"

F1nut · January 2005

Originally posted by Shizelbs
Could you point me to more info on this

I'm sorry, but I no longer recall the source of that info. This much I can say and this is the short version, there was a discovery in which a chemical was found in dead heroin addicts brains and purely by chance the same chemical was found in dead alcoholics brains who had never been near heroin. It was the conclusion of the findings that, at least, practicing addicts all have this chemical.

Shack, you are correct, I shouldn't speak in absolutes as there is little about addiction that is so.

gidrah · January 2005

You can remove the alcohol from an alcoholic, but you can not remove the alcoholic from the person.

There are addicts and there are heavy users. There is a big difference between the two. A heavy user can stop and be done with it, while an addict will never be done with no matter how long they stop.

brettw22 · January 2005

I would agree with your statements Gidrah based on them being made after the person did all that they did to get to the 'addict' status.

I'm not totally sold on the addictive gene issue is all.....

Shizelbs · January 2005

Originally posted by brettw22
I'm not totally sold on the addictive gene issue is all.....

I understand your skepticism, but as I said before I would be happy to find some sources for you.

masanz1 · January 2005

the meth pictures were on the frontpage of our local paper Oregonian. The pictures were mug shots, some over a period of 5 years of meth users. A sheriff collects them and then takes them around schools to show the effects of meth

brettw22 · January 2005

Originally posted by Shizelbs
I understand your skepticism, but as I said before I would be happy to find some sources for you.

I'll read up on stuff, sure.

But regardless of what the findings are, I really do believe that the majority of the problem lies in the CHOICE that is made.

Is there a gene that makes me want to jack off? just curious.....

pjdami · January 2005

.

F1nut · January 2005

Dopamine...............................

Gold Jerry Gold!!!

mesquitehead · January 2005

"but for the grace of god; there go I". I work with lots of folks in recovery and let me assure you none of them aspired to that life of an addict. Maybe one day we will look at rehabilitating them to productive members of society instead of tossing them in a cell for a while then sending them back to the world with the same poor life and decision making skills. And for what it is worth I lost my mother in 1983 to addiction and am in recovery myself for several years. Just be grateful it is not you or someone you love in those pictures...and if it is I pray you have some compassion and willingness.

Shizelbs · January 2005

I'm currently working at a hospital in Seattle. A couple weeks ago I watched a heroin addict go through withdrawals. It looked like such hell.

Toxis · January 2005

Does Audio classify as an addiction?

Shizelbs · January 2005

Arch Gen Psychiatry. 2004 Jun;61(6):597-606
Neuromolecular Med. 2004;5(1):85-108.
J Epidemiol. 2003 Jul;13(4):183-92
Am J Psychiatry. 2003 Jan;160(1):1-2
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/cgi/content/full/160/1/1 (Free)
J Neurosci. 2001 Nov 1;21(21):8324-7
Am J Med Genet. 2001 Jan 8;105(1):114-9
Curr Psychiatry Rep. 2001 Apr;3(2):144-51
Alcohol Clin Exp Res. 2001 Feb;25(2):221-7
J Soc Biol. 2000;194(1):43-9
Nat Genet. 2000 Nov;26(3):277-81
Int J Epidemiol. 2000 Apr;29(2):248-52
Am J Med Genet. 1999 Oct 15;88(5):462-4
Ned Tijdschr Geneeskd. 1995 Dec 16;139(50):2606-10 (If you can read Dutch)
Adv Exp Med Biol. 1977;85A:7-24

Lots more where that came from. Just go to www.pubmed.com and there is more there than you will know what to do with.

beardog03 · January 2005

Yes....

Audio is definately an addiction..

By choice...

shack · January 2005

Lead in paragraphs from an article from the Director of National Institue on Drug Abuse (NIDA):

Too often, discussions about how to reduce drug abuse and addiction turn into intense debates between polarized viewpoints. Is drug addiction a brain disease or a bad personal choice? Should we treat addicts or "hold them responsible" and punish them? Which is more important, law enforcement to restrict the availability of drugs, or prevention and treatment programs to reduce demand for them?

Such debates reflect misunderstanding of the nature of the most destructive health and social problem facing our Nation today. The clear and unambiguous message from 25 years of scientific research is that drug abuse and addiction are complex, dynamic processes. No aspect will be explained or resolved simply by choosing from a list of either/or options. There are no simple solutions. The correct answer is: "All of the above."

The assumption that addictive behavior must be either voluntary or a manifestation of brain disease is a case in point. In fact, addiction encompasses both voluntary and compulsive behaviors.

Lots of good info here (especially if you are concerned about these issues because you have kids or know someone with drug problems). A part of the National Institutes of Health which is part of the Department of Health and Human Services.

http://www.drugabuse.gov/NIDAHome.html

Frank Z · January 2005

Abuse or addiction? The end is a ruined life. Do I feel pity for anyone that takes the first hit/toke/needle/drink? Hell no. We are grown up enough to know that peer pressure is no excuse, a true friend won't get you to try this crap. Your parents, teachers, clergy, etc. told you time and time again to stay away from drugs because of the damage that they do. If you didn't listen it's YOUR PROBLEM not minenot society's problem. Be a grown up and take responsiblity for your poor choices and fix it yourself. I'm gonna just drive by your sorry ****, shake my head and point you out to my kids and say "That's what happens." Don't tell me that we should help these poor souls cuz your wasting your breath. You want to point a finger at someone else and blame them go right ahead, but you're still barking up the wrong tree. Genitic predisposition or weak will? I'll put my money on weak-minded neanderthal every time.

mesquitehead · January 2005

I guess with that said , you have no one to blame for your ignorance except yourself. True that it is irresponsible, just as speeding, jaywalking or lying just a bit on your taxes is....however the reality is that no one says they want to die from it after smoking a joint the first time, in some way we are all looking to feel better or different and escape to some degree. I think everyone has the right to an opinion and I also believe that yours is not only shallow but very neanderthal-esque. We all make **** choices sometime in our lives....I don't think we should be condemned to death if we make one.

F1nut · January 2005

Frank, that's the most ignorant statement I think I've ever read here.

PolkThug · January 2005

I have to agree with peersool on this one.

mrmusicman · January 2005

I'll put my money on weak-minded neanderthal every time

Frank Z -

You can take that comment and shove it right up your ****.

I've sat quitley and read through this thread,but that statement alone offends quite a few indivudials including myself.
I was thirteen years old the first time I got drunk, and fourteen the first time I smoked weed.I just turned 38 and I've been sober for just under 5 years, and there is not one day that goes by that I don't want to drink a beer.I also used to smoke 2-3 packs of cigs per day. I also quit smoking about the same time I quit drinking,I also chewed a can of Copenhagen per day for 15 years,which I do not any more.

I do drink a pot of coffee and chew plenty of gum every day which gets me through the tobacco craving which I have every day,but I make a choice not to open a beer or light a cig every day.

My grandfather died an alcholic ,my father is not an alcholic,and I am. Do I believe the stuff about genes and skipping a generation,you bet . And speaking about betting I also love to gamble to a point if I don't keep it under control its also a problem.

I have an addictive personality, and I'm so grateful I never played around with meth or heroin,because I know I would have liked it.

The reason I'm offering up all this info is not to be felt sorry for,but this is one subject I know what I'm talking about and my background on this subject should speak for its self.For all those out there that do not have any addictive problems you will never know or feel the pain and anger that goes with it.You either have it or you don't.

Frank Z · January 2005

mesquitehead, F1,
I've seen too many good people make stupid choices and then try to blame everyone around them for their own mistakes. You may consider me to be ignorant but I see it as not taking blame for, condoning, or paying the price for someone else stupid choices.

mrmusicman

You can take that comment and shove it right up your ****.

Well I see that you are also addicted to sniveling quite a bit. You've got problems and issues, fair enough, but why should I give a damn if YOU take the first drink, and then another, and another. Addictive Personality? Too much Jerry Springer Psychology is your problem. Let's all hold hands fret about your inability to control your own actions. Be a man for gods sake!

Everyone's pissed because my opinion doesn't jive with theirs...gimme a break!:rolleyes: How many junkies, booze-bellies, that made their own mind up to drink or do drugs do we need to take care of? I really does break my heart when I see what otherwise decent people will do to themselves and their families when they absolutely know better. But my opinion of them changes drastically when they realize that their life is in the toilet and they try to blame everyone else for their piss-poor choices and then demand that we "Take Care" of them.

So I guess I'm the scourge of the forum for getting tired of being told that society needs to help these people. Society didn't hold their noses and force booze down their throat, society didn't hand them a joint, society didn't force anyone to put all of their money into a slot machine. If you started willingly, then you need to be accountable for your choices. Why is that so wrong! Seems that others have said basically the same thing yet no one is requesting that insert anything into their rectal cavity.

:rolleyes:

mrmusicman · January 2005

Frank Z-
You should stick to things you know about and not judge people about things you know nothing about.
If you read my post I'd like to know what part of it was I sniviling ,I was just giving people a more detailed description of where I was coming from and my expierances.

I never once asked for help from anyone I've always taken responsibility for my own actions.Ive always supported my self, some day when you pull your head out from your **** you might hear what people are saying,until then....

sinara mutherfucker

Frank Z · January 2005

Let's go back and look at my original post shall we. See your name anywhere? Hmmm....didn't think so. Do I know about people that have no self control or claim to be mentally impaired and "predisposed" to what ever the latest drug fad is...sure do. I've got a brother that likes to blame the bottle for all his problems, funny thing is that he's finnally starting to grow up and blame himself for hugging the bottle. I'm not as ignorant as you would like to believe, nor am I tolerant of self imposed, self destructive behavior. If that's your bag, so be it. Good luck with YOUR self-imposed, self destructive behavior. Drop back by when you grow up and become a mature adult.

BTW, love your portrait.:rolleyes:

F1nut · January 2005

Frank,

I never said you were ignorant, I said your comments were and I stand by that. If you truely understood addiction then you would understand that "self-imposed, self destructive behavior" is exactly the root of addictions. As it seems there is addictive behavior in the family already you can fully expect it to surface again in the future, despite education, despite "knowing better," despite parents, teachers, clergy and friends. There are those that have it and those that don't.

Addicts come in all forms, from street bums to successful business tycoons, they come from dumb as dirt to certified geniuses. It doesn't discriminate and neither should you.

Jesse

Frank Z · January 2005

Jesse,
I understand your point of view and respect your outlook on the subject. I think we can agree to disagree and move on.

F1nut · January 2005

Agreed!

Moving on..............:)

TroyD · January 2005

Just my .02......

While I can't speak from personal experience, I've been around it enough to know that having an addiction is NOT a choice. As has been pointed out I think, I draw a distinction between heavy users and addicts. IMO (again, this is an opinion) heavy users choose to use ________ (insert substance) for whatever form of pleasure (or whatever feeling it is that they wish to achieve) while addicts use to satisfy the addiction itself. Having seen what the addiction does to them phyisically, mentally, spiritually... do you think anyone in thier right mind would CHOOSE to live like that? Now, I'm the biggest proponent of personal responsibility that there is, however, saying that someone with an addiction is just weak or have no self control is not accurate. I also feel the same way about sexuality, I don't think that most make a conscious choice in that matter either.

The one thing that I have learned is if you don't have an addiction, you can't really understand what it's like to have one.

BDT

jdhdiggs · January 2005

Instead of responding to everyone's comments, I'll just make a general statement. Alcoholism is in the genes and I have it. Am I an alcoholic? Probably not by anyones measure. I will usually get drunk one or two times a year and drink maybe once a month. The times I do get drunk are times when my willpower does give in. (Afterwords I crave any alcohoilic drink for about a week or so)

If I touch alcohol any more frequently than that it becomes a craving that I don't want to control. It starts to feel like a hunger if that makes any sense. I knew that several males in my family died as alcoholics so I knew these were the first signs and pushed back. I put it to a place where I can control it. I also realize that it is a slippery slope but my loved ones know about it and will help me.

From Peersols definition: It is a disease, but it can be controlled. For me, it will never go away. Even if I totally give it up, that urge will always be there. I never chose this. Granted, I did drink the first drink but so have thousands others without getting the craving.

As an asthmatic, I know what you are trying to say but some diseases can be controlled like with my asthma. Some can be limited in their affects similar to yours. Some can be cured throught other medicines.

Just as others, who are not going through your plight can not understand your difficulties, it is the same with this. Unless you have experienced it, you can not know. To me, alcoholism is different than the meth/nicotine/whatever addictions in that even when I go months/years without a drink, I still crave one where my understanding of the others is once your clear, your clear.

Just an explanation of my Demons.

Oh and Frank, I am one of the most stubborn cusses you will ever meet, and that is the ONLY thing that saves me so in a way you are both very right and wrong at the same time. :cool:

Keep on truckin'!

kberg · January 2005

IMO, when it comes to addictive drugs, as was said previously, the choice is there to say no BEFORE the addiction can even start. Someone saying that they are addicted is perhaps a good excuse but only AFTER that person has made the CHOICE to take the CHANCE to become addicted.

PolkThug · January 2005

I've been free from caffeine for 4 1/2 weeks now. For the last several years I've been drinking the equivalent of 8-10 cans of soda a day. The first few days were a ****, but now I don't need it at all. I would call this a "self-induced dependency", but not a "disease".

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