The Install

exalted512 · January 2005

i would think it would be better off bandpassed, but who knows...
is that what the midrange extension does? i never figured it out but i didnt like it on. probably helps to read the manual sometimes though
-Cody

MacLeod · January 2005

Well on paper it would work better and Im sure it does but if the MM6 mid cant handle the higher frequencies well then it wouldnt.

They just add a good bit of harshness at high volumes.

I dunno, I kind of think it wouldnt make a difference cause the mid would normally be crossed at 3500 Hz but its natural roll off cant be much more than 4000 so I dont think its making that much of a difference.

MacLeod · January 2005

UPDATE:

I think Im closing in on it. I decided to hook my speakers up to the front channels only and run both mid and tweet thru the x-over. Well this got rid of the mids harshness but OH MY GAWD are these tweets loud! Even at -6 db it was just way to much. So amidst my tears I had a thought.

If the mid is playing the frequencies above 3500 Hz very harshly and it sounds like crap running thru the x-over and I cant bi-amp them thru the x-over, then why not turn the treble on my h/u down enough to smooth it out? Hmmm. So I turned on a screechy EZO guitar solo and faded to mids only and played with the frequency center and decided on its lowest center of 10,000 Hz. Then I turned down the treble until the harshness was gone.

Now knowing that the treble control on the h/u simply turns down the volume of the given frequencies I knew all I had to do was turn up the tweeter gain to compensate. So I fidgeted with the tweet gain and for now have settled on the 10:30 position.

So far so good. The guitar solos are much easier on the ears. I havent tested this much, just out in the parking lot but it seems to be working. Ill demo some other CD's tomorrow. Dream Theaters 'Awake' was really bad. Ill try that one.

exalted512 · January 2005

glad to hear you getting everything dialed in. im worried i might not be able to be able to install my mids and tweets. it all depends on time and weather. im going to work for my dads friend tuesday so well see what happens. that means i have one day to finish my box. i stopped working on it at 11:40 tonight. the fleece is stapled on, everything is ready so that i can get up and start fiberglassing the top tomorrow. ill have some pics up later
-Cody

MacLeod · January 2005

Nowhere to work on it at school eh?

Ive got the same problem. Living here in an apartment there isnt a whole lot of usable area for working.

exalted512 · January 2005

nope, i currently live in the dorms so theres nothing i can do there...and my truck is in the parking lot a good 7 minute walk away...lol
im going to get a house or apartment--something other than a dorm this summer and do that for til the end of college life...just registered for classes this morning
-Cody

MacLeod · January 2005

Still tweaking.......

On a whim I tried reversing the phase of my tweeters. This had several effects.

1st - it took away some of the "thinness" of the sound and made it a little meatier.

2nd - it brought the stage to near perfect width. From the drivers door to the head unit. I didnt get much of anything passed the h/u. Normally the right extended a little passed the h/u and every once in a while I could it hinted all the way to the passenger door.

3rd - it dropped the stage to about the center of the steering wheel (it was a little above the top of the steering wheel).

4th - it seemed to muddy up the detail just a smidge.

After sitting in the truck for about 15 minutes auditioning several CD's I decided on leaving it in phase. To me, Id give up the extra midbass and narrower stage to have good heigth and more detail.

Anyways, it was an interesting experiment.

[Deleted User] · January 2005

Your stage width should go out to the confines of both doors. The best is described as "appearing to extend past the a-pillars". If it's only going a little past your HU, somethings wrong.

MacLeod · January 2005

Bear with me, Im new to this whole imaging thing.

I thought the ideal stage was centered right in front of you with the left and right appearing to be at equal distances from the center.

Right now, my center appears to be a little to the left of the middle of the steering wheel with the left at the drivers door.

Now if the right was coming from the passengers door, wouldnt that be a bad thing?

That would be something like this:
left........center......................................right

I thought I was supposed to achieve this:
left.......center.......right

Im so confused!

MacLeod · January 2005

bump

exalted512 · January 2005

so...whats your question?

-Cody

MacLeod · January 2005

I thought that was apparant.

Where exactly is "left", "right", and "center" supposed to be?

exalted512 · January 2005

center is supposed to be in front of you, left is supposed to be to the left of you, and right is supposed to be to the right of you.
if done correctly, no matter where you sit in the front seat, the stage will always be in front of you, no matter where you are. that is why you will never see tweeters aimed at you, they are usually aimed at the opposite head rest. this way the one in front of you isnt directly pointed at you, giving the tweeter on the other side which is pointed at you time to get to you so everything hits you at once.
do you have a cd player, tape player, or ipod?...basically anything with head phones. that will help you set up great imaging.
-Cody

MacLeod · January 2005

Didja bother to read my first post?

I was operating under the assumption that the stage should be centered in front of you with the left and right being equal distance from the center.

But then Josh says the right should be coming from the passenger side door which is about 15 feet away from the center, while the left is about a foot away from center. This makes it very skewed.

But if the right was an equal distance from center as the left was then that would put the right coming from about the head unit which it is for the most part but Josh says that is wrong. Since he knows about a million times more than I do, when he says its wrong I believe him. I just dont understand what would be right.

Everythying I can find on image placement is very vague. As in "it should be seperate and defined". "It should be easy to tell them apart". "It should be well placed". All that tells me nothing about where the imaging should be.

Normally I wouldnt care. What Ive got now sounds great and I love it but since Im wanting to try my hand at competing I want the stage to be as accurate as possible but I need to know what is accurate.

exalted512 · January 2005

im not sure what Josh is talking about...your truck should sound the equivalent of you wearing head phones in the driver's seat
-Cody

[Deleted User] · January 2005

Here is a PDF link to SLAP's rules. they are almost the same as IASCA's. You'll be surprised at how many factors there are in SQ judging.
HERE

PoweredByDodge · January 2005

give me a pile of money, a really good carpenter, and about 6 months, and i promise ya i'll win.

MacLeod · January 2005

Thanks Josh.

I looked up the IASCA and MECA rules and they were very vague. Good ol' SLAP comes thru.

Joelsbass · January 2005

Originally posted by MacLeod
But then Josh says the right should be coming from the passenger side door which is about 15 feet away from the center, while the left is about a foot away from center.

16' cab?? wtf do you drive mac

MacLeod · January 2005

LOL! It may not be exactly 16' but that passenger door sure seems an awful long way aways!

Gotta wonder why you dont see to many fullsize trucks in the winners circle at SQ comps!

MacLeod · May 2005

Well I finally got around to mounting my amps permanently and hiding all the wires.

I had wanted to mount them on top of each other like this so it would free up my other storage compartment but with even a 1/4" sheet of anything the amps were rubbing the bottom of the seat which is bad for cooling. Then I got to looking around. There is a very thick pad of soundproofing/insulation under the carpet so I thought why not run the wires between the carpet and insulation and mount the amps on top of that?

So I did a test fit and they lined up perfectly. The sub amp fits exactly between the seatbelts and there is an inch or so of airflow between the amps and the bottom of the seats.

So I stuck them on there and ran the wires under the carpet. I used some self tapping screws and screwed down into the insullation. They are solidly mounte down but they wont go anywhere unless somebody just grabs them and rips them out and theyve got plenty of padding beneath them to soak up any vibrations and they have enough room for cooling.

I then decided to mount the crossovers up next to the amps and out of the way.

Its not the coolest install out there but it looks neat, all the wires are hid and I have plenty of room for storage!

audiobliss · May 2005

Sweet! Give us a larger shot zoomed out some so I can see exactly where this is; I'm having a hard time picturing it all. But it does look very clean!

How does it look standing outside with the door open? Can you see the amps?

MacLeod · May 2005

They are mounted under the rear seat right in the middle. Go back to the first page and look at the "messy" picture of my underseat area with the wires everywhere. The amps are in the middle now with the sub to the left (passenger side) and the storage to the right (drivers).

With the doors open you can kinda see the edge of the VR404 but thats is.

audiobliss · May 2005

Aww..come on. Take a picture of it all finished now! lol

MacLeod · May 2005

Here ya go.

audiobliss · May 2005

LOL. Thanks!

I assume the seat is maybe flipped up against the back of the truck or something? And that it folds down on top of all that?

It really looks good, Mac; congrats! Is that an 8 incher sub you've got there? Have you given up looking for another sub?

MacLeod · May 2005

Yup the seat folds straight up.

That is a MTX Thunder6000 8" sub rated to handle 150 watts and its getting nearly 400! Toughest damn sub Ive ever owned!

I have not given up on getting another sub. This one is in way too small a box and is way overpowered so it doesnt sound as good as I would like.

However I have pretty much given up on fitting a 10" there. I just dont have the room to fit a box bigger than .4 ft3 at the most. Anything more will cut into my useable space. Thats part of why I went ahead and permanently mounted my amps so I would know the limits of my box.

Im probably gonna give a Kicker L5 a shot. They have more cone area than a round 8 and itll work in a .33 box which will be no problem. This one wont be downfiring tho, Im gonna aim the new one up.

Thought about the Diamond Audio CM3 8 thatll handle 400 RMS and work in a .27 box but they dont make em anymore.

audiobliss · May 2005

Oh, I didn't even notice that your MTX is down-firing....lol. I assumed it was firing into the back of the front seat. Oh well. Good luck with finding a sub.

VR3 · May 2005

You may want to try to find a sub that utilizes XBL^2 if your shooting for accuracy, some of the more accurate motors on the market.

Down-firing is the best design, as it lets your sub do the most it can, you gain output that way to, which is nice. You lose like 3db with a forward mount.

exalted512 · May 2005

looks great mac!!

im not sure of any 8" drivers that utilize xbl^2 technology

i think you should go with the kicker l5. an RE RE8 would slam, but in a ported box, theyre not as impressive in a sealed...well, compared to a L5, but in a ported box, the sound quality is noticeably better
food for thought
-Cody

The Install

Comments