eBay Shill Bidders BUSTED!!!

DarqueKnight

ABCnews.com

8 EBay Sellers Admit to Phony Bids

November 8, 2004

Eight eBay sellers were ordered to pay nearly $90,000 in restitution and fines after admitting they bid up products online to inflate the prices.

New York Attorney General Eliot Spitzer said more than 120 people will receive restitution in the settlement of the three cases, which wrapped up last week in state courts.

Spokesman Darren Dopp said the cases stemmed from specific complaints, but the office has not conducted a broad investigation of the online auction industry and doesn't know how widespread the practice of phony bidding is.

One buyer, Brad Clarke, 48, of Peachtree City, Ga., already has received a check for $3,089 after overpaying for a 1999 Jeep Cherokee sport utility vehicle he bought on eBay from a New York seller in 2002.

"I'd always been suspicious because it seems like an easy thing to do, to just keep bidding up," Clarke said. "But I was still just completely shocked and very surprised."

Three sellers were accused of making 610 bids on 106 of their car auctions under the user name "Mother's Custom Automotive NY Dealer." They are paying more than $28,000 in penalties and restitution, Spitzer said. Their lawyers declined to comment.

In another case, the operator of an art auction house and two former employees were accused of bidding on more than 1,100 of each others' eBay items for more than five years to drive up the prices. Some paintings sold for thousands more than they were worth.

Spitzer said one of the sellers pleaded guilty to a felony charge, the other two to misdemeanors. They were ordered to pay more than $50,000 in restitution and fines.

The other two defendants were accused of making 170 phony bids on their sports memorabilia items. They agreed to pay $10,000 in penalties and restitution.

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I'm luvin' it.:D

faster100

wonder what the situation was? People usually don't admit to things like that.. LOL

Nothing new though,

Dennis Gardner

Is a shill bidder still a shill if the transaction is actually followed through (money changed hands)?

Looks like a fine line could be walked if someone worked hard enough.

What would stop 2 car dealers from doing this as long as title transfers were legal?

Tour2ma

In a word... intent.

If the intent of a bid is to drive up the price, it is "shilling". Should the "shill" happen to win the item, it makes no difference, as that was not his intent.

Intent can't be proved based upon a single instance, however, the case can be made when a pattern is established.

Mazeroth

The problem I see here is the legitimate bidder made the decision to pay X amount for the item. They basically said, "Hey, if it DOES make it up to **** dollars, I'll pay for it." So, in a sense, I don't see how they can get their money back, but in another sense, I can. GOT IT?!?!

Bonham

I kinda don't get this...

If someone makes their top bid the max they are willing to pay... what's the problem here? They willingly overpaid. No one MADE then bid again. Isn't that how ebay works?

I'm not saying that those guys aren't weasels doing what they are doing... but still.

fireshoes

I completely agree.

Shizelbs

Its artificial demand. Its wrong plain and simple.

reeltrouble1

Yes, it is wrong, however, it is also demonstrates how e-bay bidders will get caught up in the bidding emotionally, not using their head, they don't always have a network like this forum where people will let you know the real value items.

RT1-out

steveinaz

Originally posted by Shizelbs
Its artificial demand. Its wrong plain and simple.

Thank you! Bravo. There is NO justification or blame throwing that would make these artificial bids "OK."

BlueMDPicker

If there's something I'm genuinely interested in on ebay, I make every effort to research its value. My next stop is the seller's feedback and I meticulously look at previously sold listings that are still available for view. I then compare current bidders on the item of interest with past bidders - of most interest are those with multiple bids per item who have not been successful bidders. If a pattern exists, I'm outa' there.

As (I believe) Ted mentioned, emotional bidding or buying is any potential bidder's or buyer's downfall (regardless of the venue) - and, makes one easy pickin's for the unscrupulous. The marketplace is full of pickpockets, it's been that way since before recorded history.

dragon1952

It boggles my mind that some see no problem with this practice!

Dennis Gardner

I have Never had a shill bidder make my bid go higher than I intended. Only I can do that myself. I have made poor decisions emotionally and occasionally overpaid due to condition of items not being as good as listed.

I know that the practice is wrong and it is nice to see ebay working on the problem.

On another note:

There are a number of ways that ebay could make their system better for all of us. I for one would like to see some type of qualified bidding that you have to prove yourself worthy.
You wouldn't be allowed to bid up an item unless your previous auction purchases allowed monetary bids equal to the current bid.
Basically you earn your way up the ladder.

I also would like to see that if the top bidder didn't buy the item, the second bidder would be required to purchase at their highest bid, to hold them accountable for their intent.

ebay has tried to keep it simple, and thus has brought out the best and worst of the free market system!

steveinaz

Quote:
"I also would like to see that if the top bidder didn't buy the item, the second bidder would be required to purchase at their highest bid, to hold them accountable for their intent."
_________________________________________________

I disagree with this one. If I'm outbidded on something, I'm looking for another one. I don't want to have to wait to see if the high bidder is gonna make good on the deal.

Dennis Gardner

Then you really didn't intend to purchase?

faster100

I have never been able to get a second bidder to buy an item on several occassions when the high bidder didn't pay.. Its like its your bid and now you don't want it? So it works both ways.. Its their option though and i respect that..

steveinaz

Originally posted by Dennis Gardner
Then you really didn't intend to purchase?

Sure I did, at my price; think of it like this, you're looking for a specific item, someone outbids you; another of the same item comes on ebay the next day---do you think you should have to wait and possibly miss out on the second item?

Good bidders shouldn't have to pay for the mistakes of poor bidders. Period. If I'm outbid--I move on and look for the item elsewhere, why should it be my responsibility to be the safety net for the seller--sorry but I disagree.

Dennis Gardner

Unless you have been on the seller side of ebay you can't understand how quickly your seemingly valid auction can fall apart.

I fully understand that ebay is a great example of how our free market system works and this usually results in conflicts on both sides of the market.

I can see mixed feelings about "sniping" also, but you won't see a change on ebay for this, as it cuts into their take.

Ending auctions early, special deals on the side, all are part of the market we either love or hate.

BTW Steve, I am only pushing buttons for fun, throwing out both sides of the issue. Nothing personal meant.:D

steveinaz

It's cool. Everyone has a right to thier view. :cool:

faster100

it's not that you should be forced to buy the item of which you were outbid, Buyers get caught up bidding.. and once outbid their done with it.. regardless if they find another item or not.. The majority ive done is selling and the sellers perspective is quite different then someone who only buys or sells only a few times a year......

E-bay keeps it simple for proffit reasons! if they have to make rules and carry tech support or have staff to answer questions to all the new rules they could have, they lose money... its there for the sole purpose of people making money..... But people do get screwed and that sucks but it happens in the real world everyday.. just gotta be careful and take your chances if you want that deal..

Nothing personal here either, just discussing issues..

Tour2ma

Well, it can get kind of personal.... and there's nothing wrong with taking it that way...

So much of what DG says is so wrong (per my values) that it rankled me...
Then to feed it once you've got a member's dander up...
Then lay it off as just playing "Devil's Advocate"...
Load of manure there... AKA trolling...

Bonham

It boggles my mind that some see no problem with this practice

Oh I see how it would be a problem, and I see why it would be against the rules, why you'd get kicked off the site, made to pay the people back because they probably 'signed' an agreement with ebay.

However people were charged with federal offenses? I'm just curious what they were charged with.

Tour2ma

Conspiracy to commit fraud works for me...

faster100

I in no way shape or form condone this behavior.... I speak from many years of being a seller on e-bay... and with perfect feedback i might add, My comments were strictly IMO type comments.. Far as dennis, i do not know his motives... or if their were any...

Just to clear things up..