A look inside cables...intersting ....
Willow
Posts: 11,056
Comments
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WOW!!! Who would have guessed that snake oil could get so hard that they would mistake it for epoxy??
Good find Willow"she had the body of Venus, with arms." -
Ah, snake oil by some....maybe, but proof MIT does it right.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Originally posted by Zero
I only wished I would have actually seen some MIT disected in the same manor. -
Nothing beats good ole fashion large gauge oxygen free copper, and high quality connectors...Polk LSi 15 Fronts
Polk LSi C center
Polk LSiFX Surrounds
Outlaw Audio 990 Pre/Pro
Outlaw Audio 755 amp
Paradigm PDR-12 Sub
Outlaw Audio Cables
BetterCables Cables -
Really!?!
Sign up for the cable demo and if you can, get your hands on some MIT cables. Then, see if you feel the same way.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
To own a pair of Transparent's 'high-end' cables, you must be willing to spend 10 or even 20 grand. You might reasonably ask why anyone should spend such a ludicrous amount of money on cables. As it happens quite a few people do. On forum threads I've watched these individuals engage in heated debate vainly trying to defend their sanity for spending $10k or even $20k on a pair of ponced-up cables with a little didgery-doo box to make em look all intelligent and technically complex.
But seriously though, It does illustrate how we as a market segment (audiophiles /audioengineeringpeopleses/bagginses) are so vulnerable to spin, even at its most absurd. Manufacturers, including but not limited to Transparent know this, and use it to good advantage.
I'm perplexed when people spend such relatively vast amounts of money for cables. My first reaction is that this is eccentric in the extreme. This is Howard Hughes territory. But one has to ask, If I was so wealthy as to afford such an extravegance without regard for proven value, would I be as susceptible to the spin, Could I possibly be duped into believing that a pair of cables costing 10 or 20 grand could really be justified?:rolleyes:Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor -
Transparent is a lame, wannabe psuedo-copy of MIT's physically real technology. I mean real in the way that it at least is tangible as an object, not just a clump of glue and plastic. Audible benefits obviously are subject to individual interpretation. Transparent wouldn't even exist if it wasn't for MIT and namely, Bruce Brisson.
It just makes me happy I knew all this a long time ago, and never bought Transparent.
Look up the patent information on Bruce Brisson, and even the non-believers have to admit he must know a couple things. He wasn't a cantelope farmer, that's for sure.
Our resident HBomb has a few patents under his sleeve as well, is he full of snake oil also? :rolleyes:
You have to give credit where credit is due, at least some people actually put forth research and design into this bracket as opposed to making an interconnect in their bathroom while taking a glorious ****. I agree, half of it is BS and DIY design will eventually rule all, but in the meantime, those of us who could care less about making their own interconnect, tho' fully capable of doing so, will buy them.
I know the benefits of good interconnects, but wouldn't even think about paying a ridiculous price like 10-20K. Hell, I wouldn't even go over 1K. I think that's complete garbage, and the law of diminishing returns gets rolling quite well in that range. I agree O'Shag, thats just plain crazy.
Big, fat OFC is definetly a start
Biased? Subjective. If you put zero effort to find out and make your own decision, based on your own efforts, then you simply have no legs to stand on.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
Originally posted by dorokusai
If you put zero effort to find out and make your own decision, based on your own efforts, then you simply have no legs to stand on.SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070
Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop. -
I have a set of MIT speaker cables still in their box, they are entry level Terminator cables that can be had for under 100.00, will bring them to gathering at Troy's for folks to hear I know some MIT Shotguns will be there as well, so I am interested in hearing the difference.
I can say when I removed the Monster XP wire from the SDA-1C and began using another set of the MIT cables I have I certainly enjoyed the sound improvement. Not to say the Monster was awful, but it was no match for the larger guage MIT.
RT1:D
No way can I ever imagine spending 10,000 on a set of cables, that is crazy, I would rather give the dough to the United Way. -
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Originally posted by dorokusai
... I mean real in the way that it at least is tangible as an object, not just a clump of glue and plastic ...
I can see buying cables that have less distortion and signal loss. But some of the claims are that the sound is brighter, lows lower etc. When I want to muck around with my sound spectrum, I just take my equalizer out of standby, and muck to my hearts content.Win7 Media Center -> Onkyo TXSR702 -> Polk Rti70 -
Originally posted by TheReaper
That is a dielectric resonance dampener
I can see buying cables that have less distortion and signal loss. But some of the claims are that the sound is brighter, lows lower etc. When I want to muck around with my sound spectrum, I just take my equalizer out of standby, and muck to my hearts content.SDA-2a, Anthem Pre-2L, Anthem Amp 1, MF A324 DAC, Rotel RCD1070
Senn HD650 Cardas, Mapletree Audio Ear+ HD2, Kimber KS1030, Bel Canto DAC2, M-Audio Transit, Laptop. -
I've gotta agree with my Canadian friend, cables are were it's at.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Originally posted by nemos2
Nothing beats good ole fashion large gauge oxygen free copper, and high quality connectors...
Copper is certainly the best conductor. But recent experience leads me to question if large guage oxygen free copper wire is the definitive answer to maximum performance.Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor -
The late great Sir Peter Walker - a leading audio engineer and father of Quad - was of the opinion that soundly constructed cables with good impedance/capacitance characteristics differed little one from another, and dismissed (perhaps unfairly) the high-end cable manufacturers' elusive science (astrocabolic paranormology) as mumbo-jumbo with no sound foundation in engineering principals.
I'm sure Sir Peter makes some sense but I just can't bring myself to agree with him.
Observe the exceptionally complex materials and techniques used today; i.e. the fantastically colourful shiny nylon braiding in a compelling criss-cross pattern, to make sure the signal 'arrives in style', lots of beautiful gold silver and rhodium shiny bits at the ends contrasting so elegantly with the matt-red or black heat-shrink rubber bits with the gold embossed logo imprinted with such finesse, and for those that can afford to go the whole hog, the cool G.I. JOE-like battery packs and network boxes at the end of the most finely adorned cables....must surely be superior in every way.
This audio enthusiast believes that interconnect and speaker cables offer some of the best bang for the buck in the audio industry today.:rolleyes:Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor -
Proof is in the sound. You're welcome to demo some of those battery packs here, anytime. Bring whatever cables you'd like to compare them with. Seriously.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Where is the Zen master Mantis?
I'd like to hear his thoughts on Transparent's audio voodoo/doodoo.
Cheers,
Russ (of the MIT cable using Russ's)Check your lips at the door woman. Shake your hips like battleships. Yeah, all the white girls trip when I sing at Sunday service. -
F1,
Just kidding a bit. Unfortunately there is a lot of voodoo out there, but inevitably some of these marketing strategies will end up leading to an improved product. I can't dispute that such things as battery packs may have merit, but I still remain sceptical. Interestingly, whiel reading Stereophile I did come across a review of two AudioQuest cables with battery packs, and the reviewer could not define a difference in sonic performance with the battery pack. Buch I've not audiotioned a cable with a battery pack, and that is the main test .
It would be a lot easier to accept and champion some of these evolving 'technological breakthroughs', but for the prices. The cost of manufacturing a cable does not rise into the stratosphere by adding a battery pack in the manufacturing process. These interconnects or speaker cables with battery packs etc costing upwards of a grand and well beyond are in my humble opinion ludicrously priced and do not justify the additional expenditure. They fall well into the law of diminishing returns category.
Case in point, I am looking for six pairs of interconnects to satisfy my system upgrade needs. It would be difficult to justify spending 6k, or even 3k for these interconnect cables when I know I can spend half that or less and get very near if not the same performance. To say nothing of the fact that if my missus ever got wind of my spending so much money on cables, she would probably want to trade me in for a younger, saner guy, and I don't think I would blame her.Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor -
I should have said network boxes as I don't have any battery packs here....though the boxes look kinda like a big battery pack and that's what I thought you meant.
Yes, there is the law of diminishing returns, however as long as it's in one's budget those diminishing returns can be very sweet, though sometimes not. The quest for better sound can take a strange turn at times. I recently decided to upgrade from $800.00 interconnects to $1700.00 ones from the same company. The strange thing about it was that the new cables (fully burned in) sounded terrible. I lost my desire to listen as my foot no longer tapped to the music. This was verified by a fellow forum member with good ears. In this case the diminishing return factor didn't play a part, it just seems to be a case of synergy. I am returning the new cables in exchange for the kind I had before. I wasn't unhappy with the original cables at all, in fact I have been very pleased, but I thought that if they sound this good then the ones further up the food chain will sound even better. The moral of the story is sometimes it's best to leave things alone.
So, we not only have cost factors to consider, but more importantly, synergy.
Good luck in your quest.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Thanks F1.
What about the Chinese Grand Prix. Schumi was nowhere in sight. Guess it demonstrates the value of starting in the first few lanes of the grid. Pleasantly surprised that Jensen Button is finally finding his way up the ladder.
I'm intrigued about the $700 interconnects you're using (the 1700 is just way out of my range) and while I couldn't justify spending even as much as $700 for six pairs, I'm wondering if there would be value in getting one or two really high-quality interconnects that may be in this range. Could you describe the sonic qualities, and how they are synergistic with your system?Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor -
I enjoyed the race, very nice job the Chinese did building the track. I was great to see some new faces closer to the top, but what is Renault doing bringing Jackie boy back? The guy isn't a top driver any longer, Trulli is better than him. I have to admit I also enjoyed watching Schumi struggle and what was up with little bro? I wonder if they both had some bad food the night before...lol.
Ok, cables......I can try to decribe them, but hearing cables for yourself is the only true test. Basically, more detail, smoother top end, a richer mid range, great bass extension, greater soundstage, more air and overall a much fuller sound with weight to the music. The vocals are so good you'd think you could reach out and touch the singer.
I spoke with a tech at MF today about my cables woes and he flat out said the newer ones did not match my system at all due to having a fixed input impedance vs a variable, however the older cables matched very well. So, I'm not crazy and it's back to the original model I had before.
What are your goals? Is music more important or HT? Do you listen to music in 2 channel or multi? What gear/set up are we talking about?Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1,
Thanks for the information
Surprising also that Bar-Honda is doing so well on constructor points. I'm a little dissapointed McLaren aren't beating Ferrari this year as I did have high hopes. Also what the heck has happened to Williams?
Your opinion is valued on the question of interconnects.
Audio fidelity is priority. I do listen to two-channel a good deal, but very intrigued by multi-channel, especially in SACD form. They haven't got it perfectly right yet, but I suspect the future lies in multi-ch.
I've a respectable HT rig, but what concerns me most is getting my audio system right.
Preamps include ARC SP11MkII (tube), ARC SP6e (tube), ARC SP4 (SS), Carver C4000t, Yamaha RX-Z9 as processor.
Amps include ARC Classic 120 hybrid tube monoblocs (240 watts of glorious triode-mode tube power), Carver TFM-25 x2 in mono mode (about 400 watts ea into 4 ohms), Yamaha RX-Z9 for surround channels.
Audio sources include: Carver SD/A 390t tube CD player, Sony SCD-777es (SACD) Denon DVD-5000 (I use this for HDCD playback), Sony DVP-NS9000es and DVP-NS900V(both SACD). I have other players but these are my principal ones right now.
Speakers include Polk RT5000 system, Thiel CS2.3, KEF Reference 107, 104/2, 103/2, 103/1. I'm daft enough to be wanting a pair of Apogee Divas as well. Speaker cable for now is QED Silver Anniversary.
Herein may exist the opportunity to make improvement- Interconnects used are a hodge podge, primarily using AudioStream A600s and A500s. Also some monster interconnects, and I'm ashamed to admit I've got some GE cheapies ($16 ea )from Fry's Electronics thrown in there too.
Canare XLR balanced from ARC balanced line driver to Classic 120s.
If you are still awake after that list, do any suggestions spring to mind with respect to interconnects that would be a synergistic fit for the ARC tube components in particular? Also your personal impression on interconnect prioritization i.e. connections that are most important to maintain signal fidelity.Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor -
That's quite a list of some very nice gear. I know you spent a few dollars on it and I think some cables of the same level would impress you.
I'll get back to you with more info, need to sleep right now.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Nice gear O'Shag
Ah KEF....my favorite speaker ever. I need to pick up a pair to play with sometime.CTC BBQ Amplifier, Sonic Frontiers Line3 Pre-Amplifier and Wadia 581 SACD player. Speakers? Always changing but for now, Mission Argonauts I picked up for $50 bucks, mint. -
I don't want to start a fight, but
for most of us listening to Polk speakers, that even the most expensive setup is 10,000.00 I think that it would be hard for the average polk owner to purchase a 10,000.00 pair of cables.....
Lets say that you go with polks current top end speaker, the LSi's, tops you have about 3,000.00 in a 2 channel rig, i dont see spending more than 800.00 on cables.....why would you buy 10,000.00 cables and put them on a 3,000.00 speaker setup?
The other thing that I wonder about is, in the link that was posted, or maybe one of the comments, why would you want to alter the what the cross over see's? I just want to have the crossover do its job, and have the cable do its job, that is send strong, clean, un altered signal to the crossover....
let me know.....Polk LSi 15 Fronts
Polk LSi C center
Polk LSiFX Surrounds
Outlaw Audio 990 Pre/Pro
Outlaw Audio 755 amp
Paradigm PDR-12 Sub
Outlaw Audio Cables
BetterCables Cables -
Ok, let's talk interconnect cables.
I'm going on the idea you want a pair or two for 2 channel music only and for that I would recommend either the MIT Shotgun series or the Harmonic Tech Pro Silway's. Either can be had used on Audiogon in the $200 and up range. I understand the Harmonic Tech's match up really well with ARC gear. I think the MIT's would work very well too as I have a hybrid tube set up and love the Shotgun's.
I think the connection between the source and the pre is more important than the pre and amp.
McLaren and Williams............who knows, no doubt a bad year for both.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
nemos2,
I don't think anybody is suggesting that someone spend 10k on cables for a 3k set up.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1,
Ok, I was not really sure...
You mentioned that I should get involved in the cableswap....
Are there a pair of MIT cables in the swap program?
I looked at the MIT website, and I could not really tell what the cables are doing....why are they better than just OFC? I wanted a little more insight in to that....Polk LSi 15 Fronts
Polk LSi C center
Polk LSiFX Surrounds
Outlaw Audio 990 Pre/Pro
Outlaw Audio 755 amp
Paradigm PDR-12 Sub
Outlaw Audio Cables
BetterCables Cables -
Yes and here's the link, http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=14424
They are the entry level series, but well worth a listen. Why are they better? I don't have a techincal explanation for you, only to say they have a bit of magic in those patented network boxes. There is a bunch of white paper material to read on their site, have you checked it out?
Of course, as with any set up, some stuff works better than others. I've found the Shotgun S1's to match up perfectly with my gear, you may not.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
F1,
Thanks. $200 is definitely an affordable price especially given the MIT cables are probably clost to twice that new. I've not heard of Harmonic Tech, and will do some research. The MITs sound like a good deal, especially if there is a known synergy with ARC gear. Do you have an opinion on MIT speaker cables?
Doro,
The KEF sound is compelling indeed. Even the 301/1, the smallest reference model I have, sound marvellous, very similar to the BBC monitors. If you ever have a chance to listen to the Reference 107s (former flagship, now its the 207s), I think you'll like them.Polk SRT HT System
Polk CS1000p / FX1000
Sony KDS-R70XBR2
Yamaha RX-Z9 Processor