Classic Criteria

DarqueKnight
DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
edited April 2012 in The Clubhouse
What criteria does a speaker have to meet before it is designated a "classic"? Seemingly, one criteria is that a classic speaker is one that has been out of production for a while. But, how long is this "while"? Another criteria seems to be performance, particularly if the performance is high relative to the price. There must be other criteria other than age and performance, but what are they? Undoubtedly, the SDA's and original Monitor series are classics. Will my recently discontinued RT 55i's be "classics" someday? What about my RT 35's?
Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • fabian1
    fabian1 Posts: 218
    edited February 2002
    My thought are the 55s will be classics. I do not know if tuy grt them in the States but a low volume butifully crafted speaker named Sonus Faber, built in italy are renouned in Australia as instant classics no matter what vintage be it old or current models, then again their prices are wowwwwwwwwww, youch. Regards Fabian, Ps I love thr 55s and you can still buy them here in Australia brand new in the Polk Box.:)
    The Wonder From Downunder
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  • Striker1817
    Striker1817 Posts: 15
    edited February 2002
    I love listening to old speakers. One of my favorites has got to be the old Advents. For an old speaker it sounds good. I hear stories from my father about him and his advents and how he had the nicest speakers on the block lol. But the pair was all referbished and ready to go for $300.
    -Chris(16 year old speaker freak)
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited February 2002
    Again, I think that "classic" is a term that is overused. Again, this is a subjective hobby and classic is a subjective term....

    I dunno, when I think of classic speakers I think of:

    Large Advents
    AR-2's
    Quad ESL 57 (I forget the model #'s)
    KLH 6,9,17
    Older Maggies
    Dahlquist DQ-10's
    DCM Time Windows (I think that was the name)
    SDA's
    B&W 801's

    Obviously, this list isn't all inclusive or even correct as far as model #'s go.....but you get my point. I think of classic speaks as ones that were different and revolutionary......no disrespect to the current line, they are good speaks but I don't see them as "classics"

    I have a pair of Pioneer CS-88A's that I like and are cool but don't really consider them classics, ditto with the my Boston A100's

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • trubluluc
    trubluluc Posts: 2,067
    edited February 2002
    ....with Greek or Roman columns attached to the cabinet.

    -luc
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  • raycomics
    raycomics Posts: 78
    edited February 2002
    You have to add Vintage Altec Lansing, Klipsch, ElectroVoice, and JBLs to this mix. These speakers all had high (90db and above) SPLs @ 1 watt/meter and are probably of better quality than most of what is produced these days. (Have you checked current prices for "Real Wood" Speakers?) The same quality that was included in these "Classics" is available today, (with a smaller footprint) but you have to spend thousands to get it. I love Classic Speakers! Just my $.02.



    Ray
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2002
    Ray,

    Interesting point. I have noticed that a lot of the "classic" speakers were moderately priced in their day, but would be priced in the $1,000's in today's market. Seems to validate the price/performance ratio of some classics, huh?
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • raycomics
    raycomics Posts: 78
    edited February 2002
    Right you are, Raifey, Right you are.










    "The name is Bond, James Bond."
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  • BrandonW
    BrandonW Posts: 57
    edited February 2002
    WOw advent....talk about ghetto, I have two advent prodigy II towers for my computer desk (8" drivers) and to this day am amazed considering I paid 42$ for them both (no idea what they retailed for, god love company auctions)

    I think anything over a year or so old is 'vintage' =) That why i try to upgrade everyear =)

    Brandon
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  • Eddie624
    Eddie624 Posts: 77
    edited February 2002
    You upgrade your stuff everyyear. Must be nice to have that much money.:)
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  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
    edited February 2002
    Eddie,

    It doesn't always take a lot of money if you are selling the old stuff to buy new stuff. I scored $4K last year selling old gear that was just in my basement collecting dust. The only thing I regret selling was my Polk Monitor 10B's. They were the first Polk speaker that I purchased.:(
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
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  • BrandonW
    BrandonW Posts: 57
    edited February 2002
    Eddie, it helps when your a dealer...


    And really EBAY is a great asset! You would be surprised at what people will pay for JUNK. I sold a STOCK T5(mustang transmission) shifter on ebay, ended at 18$ for something even junkyards typically discard.

    Brandon
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  • Eddie624
    Eddie624 Posts: 77
    edited February 2002
    Yeah i have never used Ebay for anything. Is there really that much stuff that comes out every year that is a major improveent over what you already have. I finally just upgraded my receiver and got the Onkyo txds797 which i am liking very much. I just bought the Polk subwoofer psw350. Still using my klipsch satellite speakers i have had for like 6 years. Once i save up some money i plan on upgrading the rest of my speaker system and getting a new tv and dvd player. Just wish i could win the lottery. Guess that wont happen since i dont buy tickets for it.
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  • BrandonW
    BrandonW Posts: 57
    edited February 2002
    Not really, but I just don't like being obsolete =) even with my carstereo stuff, i keep the newest model alpine stuff current, and newest toys. I am about to upgrade from my cda7875 to the new clarion touch screen/dvd/cd/mp3, should show well at the race track =) nothing like sitting in the staging lanes waiting to race watching a movie =) what can i say, i like my toys.

    Lastly what do i say if a customer asks 'what do you have' do I tell them 'well i am using last years model of this' vs 'yah i got this one, and this is how you do XXXXXX, makes me a better dealer if i know what i am selling. and really it doesn't cost me anything to change every year (well not much at least)

    Brandon
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  • joe logston
    joe logston Posts: 882
    edited February 2002
    i got a pair of ads L-990 i had them since 1986 they still work good, good built quality highly modified i use them in my 2 system
    . rt-7 mains
    rt-20p surounds
    cs-400i front center
    cs-350 ls rear center
    2 energy take 5, efects
    2- psw-650 , subs
    1- 15" audiosource sub

    lets all go to the next ces.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    Last night I picked up a pair of 1978 vintage Acoustic Research Model 9's. Almost 5' tall, 130 lbs. per cabinet. Two 12" side firing acoustic suspension woofers per cabinet (WAY ahead of their time those AR boys), 8" forward firing cone lower mid, 1 3/4" dome upper mid, and 3/4" dome tweets. Probably, no definitely the finest speak AR ever produced. Set me back $200 they did. HA! They will replace ALL four Polk RTA11's in my very modest home theeAter rig. Those are already sold too!

    Okay, while I'm here. Classic speaks? How about:

    Altec-Lansing Voice of the TheeAters
    Electro-Voice Patricians
    Bozak Concert Grand's, Century's (B-300's)
    Acoustic Research 3a's, 4's, 5's, LST's, LST II's, 9's .........
    The Advent Loudspeaker, The New Advent Loudspeaker
    The Smaller Advent Loudspeaker (the "Larger Advent didn't become itself until he, Kloss, designed The "Smaller Advent". Before that, it was just The Advent Loudspeaker)
    KLH 6's, 9's, 17's (heavy on the 6's)

    Okay, bring the band on down behind me boys,

    Pyramid's (Dick Sequerra designs)
    Klipsch (all his ear blood drawers)
    Irv Frieds speakers
    EPI TE-70's and TE-100's
    Electro-Voice Interface Series
    Allison IC-20's
    ADC 303ax's
    JBL L100's, Paragons, Lancers, 4312's, Hartsfields, etc., etc......
    Boston Acoustic's A-40's
    Wharfdale Diamonds
    Roger's LS-3/5A's
    Acoustat's
    ESS Heil's (w/air motion transformer tweeters
    Janszen ElectroStatics
    Quad ESL 63's
    Carver Amazing's (Silvers & Platinum Mk.IV's)
    Celestion DL-6's and a host of others
    Mirage M-1's
    DBX Soundfield 10's
    Dynaco A-25's, A-10's, A-35's

    5 minute smoke or latrine break (be back on time now)

    Realistic Minimus', Optimus', and Nova's (gracing a lot of living rooms nationwide!!)
    Ohm Acoustics (Brooklyn, N.Y.'s FINEST! The Walsh 5 is an incredible design)
    ANYTHING by Dr. Bose (cause as bad as they be, there's a lot more of them in peoples homes than what YOU'RE listening to in yours!)
    Infinity (too many to list)
    Lafayette Radio Electronics (many in the "Criterion" line) again, not all that great, but more plentiful than what you've got!
    Fisher XP-55's and 57's (same criteria, MILLIONS sold, and not a SPECK of cereal!)
    Magnepan's
    Chapman T-7's
    Phase Tech's
    Mariah's
    Vandersteen 2c's and i's
    Rectilinear's
    Universities
    Tannoy Bloody Ears
    STR's (Sound Technology Research, I sold these in the early 70's at a company called Record World. These towers were awesome)
    Nestorovic's (Milo Nestorovic's company. You may not recognize the name, but all your heavy hitting superstars at Polk do. Matt included)
    Pioneer CS-44's, 88's, and 99's (again the not-so-great but plentiful theory)
    Sansui (all those SP- crummy jobs, came home from Vietnam with the Pioneers BY THE BOATLOADS. Thank your dads and uncles for THAT one)
    And maybe even a couple Polk's!


    That's it. My head hurts.


    "Scientists claim that nitrogen, because it is so plentiful, is the basic building block of the universe. I dispute that. I say there is more stupidity than hydrogen, and that IT is the basic building block of the universe."
    Francis Vincent Zappa

    "Our schools our bad enough, but if you put your kids anywhere NEAR a church, you're asking for trouble."
    FZ

    "Almost everytime FZ spoke, it made me want to kiss him on the lips! I couldn't miss a person more"
    George Grand


    Til next time!
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  • Aaron
    Aaron Posts: 1,853
    edited February 2002
    Last night I picked up a pair of 1978 vintage Acoustic Research Model 9's.....They will replace ALL four Polk RTA11's in my very modest home theeAter rig.
    How are two speakers going to replace four in a home theater? Come on man, give in! Find yourself a Dolby Digital receiver, run the preouts to something Carver-ish from the magic closet, grab three speakers from the garage, find that DVD player you have tucked away, and bring on the movies!

    Aaron
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  • Eddie624
    Eddie624 Posts: 77
    edited February 2002
    I just bought a pair of r600i's and a CS245i are those speakers classics yet?
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    I didn't realize there was a hard definition of home theeAter. In my MODEST home theeAter. That could be the two speakers built into a monitor. For some folks, it could be the single speaker in a TV SET. For SOME folks, 17.1 is where the action is. I don't WANT a Dolby Digital receiver. I don't WANT, a home theater system that is the envy of everybody in the neighborhood. I just want outstanding sound. If it only comes from two speakers, that's just fine. I'm not a real CUTTING EDGE guy, OR a slave to fashion.

    Yo Eddie,
    If YOU think your speakers have class..................................
    then they're classics.


    "Whoever we are, wherever we're from, we should have noticed by now, our behavior is dumb. If are chances are expected to improve, it's gonna take a lot more than trying to remove the other race, or the other whatever, from the face of the planet altogether."
    FZ
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  • Eddie624
    Eddie624 Posts: 77
    edited February 2002
    I suppose it is just like beauty is in the eye of the beholder.
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    Yes my man, I suppose you're right! As long as one has actually "beheld" said work of art. Otherwise, one is forming an "uninformed" opinion. That MAY explain why a bunch of speakers are NOT on my list. They could also be absent because I DID "behold" them, and didn't think they sounded all that good.

    "Why ask me about my kids first names? It's their LAST name that's going to give them trouble."
    FZ
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    From the American Heritage Dictionary:

    1. Of the highest rank or class.
    2. Serving as a model of it's kind.
    3. Of or in accordance with established principles and methods.


    "May your **** come to life and kiss you on the lips!"
    FZ
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited February 2002
    Went trudging across the tundra and picked up some AR-9s for $200. Man you rule! I was checking out those Soundfields on E-bay the other night-SWEET.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    Great Googily Moogily, just as important as getting Sun Ra's greatest hits on cd delivered for under $10. It's just that my purchase was on a larger scale. Nice score Gidrah.

    If you like "Rats", Waka Jawaka", & the "Wazoo", I recommend "King Kong" by Jean Luc Ponty. Frank appears, Art Tripp is there, Ernie "Mystery Horn" Watts, and a bunch of great L.A. studio guys. From 1969 or so, it is a killer. No lyrics at all. Jean Luc Ponty wasn't famous yet, so he does just what he's told. The long composition titled "Music for Low-Budget Orchestra & Violin" is real special. Jean Luc Ponty Plays the Music of Frank Zappa would be the alternate title.


    "OF COURSE we'll send the penguin through the flaming hoop tonight boys and girls!"
    FZ
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  • gidrah
    gidrah Posts: 3,049
    edited February 2002
    I've been looking for it since Kind of Blue post. Unfortunately I haven't found yet, but I WILL.
    Make it Funky! :)
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    My charming wife, the former Theresa Talamonti, has mastered cd copying. Worst comes to worst, we can cover you. The song line-up on that disc looks like this:

    1. King Kong
    2. The Idiot **** Son
    3. Twenty Small Cigars
    4. How Would You Like To Have A Head Like That? (the only Ponty composition, it is a jazz vamp that really smokes! Artistic freedom is allowed and some of the guys really "stretch out")
    5. Music for Low-Budget Orchestra and Violin ( The title here is a tongue in cheek poke at the amount of money World Pacific Jazz allowed for the project. This piece is gorgeous. Typical Frank, it features classical, jazz, and rock in the same piece. From 1969.)
    6. America Drinks and Goes Home

    Do you own "Orchestral Favorites", "The Yellow Shark", or "The London Symphony" recordings yet? If not, these are his classical masterpieces. Mandatory stuff. Again, we have plenty O blank cd's here. Just ask.


    "OF COURSE we'll play Petrouchka tonight!"
    FZ
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  • raycomics
    raycomics Posts: 78
    edited February 2002
    George -

    Picked up a pair of speakers yesterday at the local Flea Market that I did not know anything about until I got home and read your previous posts. (I have been a Polk man since 1977) Anyway, I got these AR 94s, which I believe is a entry level 9 series w/2 8" Woofers and a 1 1/2" Tweets. The Woofer surrounds are shot but other than that, looks like a pretty solid set of speakers! I had to pay a ton of $ to get them though. They set me back a whoppping sum of $15 (LOL) Can't wait to get the surrounds done to hear what they sound like. It is good to know that I am not alone in this "Classic Speaker" Craze.



    "If I don't see you no more in this world, I'll meet you in the next one, don't be late, Don't Be Late." JIMI
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    Nice purchase my man. Manufactured from '72-'77 with a final retail price of $450 the pair. Translated into today's dollars......
    it doesn't matter. You got some gems for a steal. We are far from alone in the classic speaker craze. In house, right now:

    AR-9's
    Carver Platinum Mk.IV's
    KLH 6's, 17's, and yesterday for $2.50/pair KLH 24's
    Advent Model 3's
    Electro-Voice Marquis (small refrigerators, horn loaded)
    Smaller Advent (only one, thrift shop, what happened to #2?)
    Fisher XP-55B's (nothing to write home about, but clearly marked Fisher Radio Company, Long Island City, NY)
    Lafayette Criterion 2xa's (I used to work for them around1970)
    Dynaco A-10's

    Recently sold due to overcrowding:
    KLH 6's and 30's
    ADC 303ax's
    Bozak B-300 Century's
    Bozak B-410 Tempo's
    Bozak E-300's ("E" designates they were a kit)
    Dynaco A-25's

    There's more but my head is starting to hurt again. I got a bunch of vintage electronics too:

    ORIGINAL AR Integrated Amp (My pride and joy, you NEVER find those in working order anymore. The FIRST, ABSOLUTELY THE FIRST hi-current amp. 50wpc/8ohms, 60wpc/4ohms

    Advent 201 Cassette Deck (A Kloss original, I even have the Wollensak that he used as a model. He simply improved on it.)

    KLH Model 52A Receiver (the HEAVIEST 33wpc receiver on the planet)

    KLH Model 18 FM Tuner
    Dynaco PAT-4 preamp
    Dynaco PAS-3 preamp

    There's more but I can't remember where. It's SOMEPLACE in this house.

    I saw Jimi in August 1967 or '68 (you'll understand the haze regarding the exact date I hope) for........$2.50!!!!!!!!! The warm-up bands in order were, The Soft Machine, The Chambers Bros., and Janis Joplin w/Big Brother. Venue was a small amphitheater in Flushing, NY called The Singer Bowl, originally constructed for the 1965 World's Fair by Singer Sewing Machine Co. If I'm listening to rock, it's either Frank, or Jimi.

    There is another real classic freak on this site named Joell. Look for him as he is a good man with some other neat stuff. I don't drop in too often anymore. I have an abrasive personality which doesn't sit well with some of the kiddies. Today was more or less a "cameo" or "guest appearance". Russman knows classics, Gidrah knows classics. There are others, and if I omitted them it wasn't on purpose.

    Great talking at you and keep the faith.

    "You ain't gonna, put a ROPE around me!" JMH
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  • TroyD
    TroyD Posts: 13,077
    edited February 2002
    I go away for the weekend and when I return, George comes back in to form and waxes poetic on us.....what a treat.

    Listen up, kiddies, to what the man says.... George has owned more classic audio gear than most of us will ever see, his girls have audio rigs that most of us would love to get our hands on and he has forgotten more than most of us will ever know.

    Not to mention that Wendi thinks he is one sexy ****.

    Troy
    I plan for the future. - F1Nut
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  • raycomics
    raycomics Posts: 78
    edited February 2002
    George -

    OF COURSE I understand bout the haze in the old days. I was pretty "Purple" myself a lot back then. My favorite JMH story is the one that didn't happen. I was 14 years old and seriously contemplated running away from home to see JIMI in concert. Some friends of mine were hitching a ride and wanted me to go. I asked my mother and she said "You might try hitting them books a little harder instead of going to some stupid Concert!" The "Concert" that she would not let me go to was WOODSTOCK! I still think about that one all the time.


    My Classic Lineup:

    Altec Lansing Model 14 (Mantaray Horn, 12" Woofer)
    Large New Advents
    Bose 601s Series II (I know, I know, but I like em)
    Bose 501s Series II (Told ya)
    Polk Audio Model 10B
    Pioneer HPM 300
    RTR Series IV B
    JBL 26 (Bookshelf)
    Realistic Mach IIs
    Dahlquist M-905s
    Micro Acoustic MA3DX

    Thats all that comes readily to mind.
    BTW, Do you know anything bout a speaker called Eckman Model 101A? I have a pair that I tried to research, but no luck yet.

    Real nice to meet you man!




    "Frank Zappa and the Muthas, were at the best place in town. Some stupid with a flare gun, burned tha place to the ground."

    DP
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  • George Grand
    George Grand Posts: 12,258
    edited February 2002
    Those Altec's and RTR's are to die for! That is cool man **** you have there. If you need a spare tweet, and the New Advents use the same one as the Smaller's, she's yours for the shipping charge. I'll never find a single entire Smaller, so might as well do some good with it. As far as those Eckman's, not a clue. But I only went through a couple books. Might find out something for you somewhere down the road. Like I said before, I am not here on any type regular basis anymore. Want to stay in touch? Drop me a line at njgrand@bellatlantic.net, and I'll give you my real e-mail address. Put something in the subject/title so I know you are not a virus. I probably have 10 or 15 more pair of speaks here, but I wouldn't consider them classics.....yet.

    Troy,
    Yahoo! I'm a sexy ****! I'm a sexy ****! And your no-ot! And your no-ot! HEY, isn't a **** a female dog? Yes? Well, I don't care because Wendi is a bombshell on the outside, and stone beautiful on the inside, AND she thinks I'm SEXXXXXXXXY! YES! Wanna try smoking some of my un-filtered Luckies Troy? They're GOOD for you. Vitamin enriched and ****! You don't have to inhale to start, but it's better if you do. TRUST ME old pal. And when you come up for that extended visit during the summer, if you want to stay for a week or two instead of a few days, that'd be GREAT.


    "In the fight between you and the world..... back the world."
    FZ
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