on bi-wiring, my .02...(long)

presidan · February 2002

Couldn't you fit one set of wire into the binding the traditional way ( loose binding a bit, then insert wire into little hole) and use banana plugs for the other set ?
I'm thinking that it might be better for those that wanna make lots of different tests before actually twisting wire together ?

I was just wondering

danger boy · February 2002

Originally posted by presidan
Couldn't you fit one set of wire into the binding the traditional way ( loose binding a bit, then insert wire into little hole) and use banana plugs for the other set ?
I'm thinking that it might be better for those that wanna make lots of different tests before actually twisting wire together ?

I was just wondering

this is the way i'm thinking of bi-wiring my fronts.. one set bare wire, other set banana plugs... at both the speaker and the receiver ends.

kanicker · February 2002

Food for thought:

I tired bi-wiring tonight. Here is my gear:
H/K 310 Reciever, H/K 8380 CD Player
Fronts: 800i
All gold plated radio shack connectors

In a stereo only test I used
Miles Davis, Kind Of Blue
Pink Floyd, Wish You Were Here &
Michael Jackson, Off The Wall

I went Monster 12ga single bare wired, gave everything a solid listen to at high volumes for about 15min, then added (without moving speakers) a second set of 12ga banana clipped wire, and listened some more.

Now I know this is not anything close to a blind or scientific test. But if there is a difference enough to add to my enjoyment of the music, then it should be noticeable even without the blinding (for me).

I'll be brief: it all sounded the same... which I feel is excellent. Perhaps my reciever is not high end enough, perhaps my room is not acoustically revealing enough, perhaps I don't have the best ears.

I also tried replacing the jumpers with 12 ga wire and did not biwire. That also seemed to have no effect. (Here's a question: does anyone theorize what difference it could make if you single wire to the top or bottom connectors? I tired that, just to see if I would get more pronouced bass, but to no effect.)

I'll make this statment: before I had the 12 ga wire, I was using 15 year old 14 ga. It seemed to me that vocals and high tone instruments were more distinct when I made that change. I attribute that to 1) 12 ga is better; 2) 15 year old wire is not a good idea; and 3) I wanted it to sound better since I just dropped $20 on a few feet of wire, so I might have "convinced" myself that it did.

I do not discount that there could be an improvement if you biwire. It just didn't happen for me, and I am not at all dissapointed that it didn't. I'm not sure what I could have expected to make the music sound better.

All in all, it was sort of fun, but I think now that everything is connected and happy, I'll leave it that way and thank the maker that I came across Polk Audio!

Please take no offense here... like I said... just food for thought!;)

juice21 · February 2002

kanicker, no offense, glad you tried it! this is why bi-wiring is such a controversial topic, some people hear it, some people don't. i think it comes down to alot of variables other than the bi-wiring, ie. room acoustics, hearing, etc. as you stated. since you tried it and heard no difference, at least you know now for yourself, your feeling on bi-winrg. that's what i did, of course mine led me to other feelings on bi-wiring, but now i know for sure myself as well. i suggest if you are uout there, wondeing about bi-wiring, test it yourself, that's the only way you are really going to know. thanks for your thoughts...

johnnyamerika · February 2002

very true, but even if it did or did not work out for you this time, maybe down the road you'll have different equipment and test it again. And maybe you'll get different results from that different equipment. Lots of variables here, lots of stuff to play with!

joe logston · February 2002

the jumpers they use on polks are not to good instead of bi-wireing try bridging the post, here is a co. that sell real good bridges, wbt; http://www.wbtusa.com/0600.html go to web page click on finnishing touches go to wbt power bridge. click on.

RuSsMaN · February 2002

I have always been a fan WBT termination options, though they are pricey...

Have you seen anyone that sold these? Please provide links/contact info... I would be interested in doing a double blind test vs your typical 'home grown' speaker wire jumper...

Cheers,
Russ

joe logston · February 2002

kimber kable sells wbt stuff, the wbt gold bridge sure would look good on the cs-400i

RuSsMaN · February 2002

So, basically, you don't have an online link, or a direct phone number to a dealer...(just too lazy to jump throught the hoops, the emails....)

the wbt gold bridge sure would look good on the cs-400i

only if it was standing on end.....

Cheers,
Russ

joe logston · February 2002

heres a phone # for wbt- usa 801-621-1500 heres add. to 2752 south 1900 w. ogden, utah 84401 call them to get the nearest add. of the stores that sell wbt stuff to where you live or get a web link to a mail order house. i would do it but my computer dose not pull up links on the web pages sense i down loaded xp pro i been having problems my dauther has my disk and cant find it and xp wants me to reload it so im out of luck for a while , sorry

joe logston · February 2002

web for kimber kable http://www.kimber.com/connectors.htm

presidan · February 2002

I was wondering.......

Would new WBT bindings be hard to install on a denon 3802 ?
Would it be worth it ?

danger boy · February 2002

I think a lot of variances come into effect when bi-wiring your speakers. We all have different home theater sysytems.. different receivers, different room sizes, different speaker cable, different listening preferences, different hearing abilities.... etc.

therefore, some people who bi-wire there speakers may hear more pronounced difference than say. I would..... or the guy stanging right next to me.
if we took 10 of us from this forum and bi-wired juice21's system for instance.. I bet most of us would all hear a difference in quailty.. some of us would hear a big differnece, and others only a slight difference and some maybe even no difference.. my point is.. and i 'm finally getting to is.. is that you may have 10 different opinions on the same system and what we each hear.

I plan on bi-wiring my fronts this weekend.. and I'm hoping I do hear even a slight difference in audio quality

danger boy · February 2002

for reasonable priced and pretty good cables try www.ixoscable.com

i use this brand and so far have been happy with them. lots of connectors, cable lengths and prices to fit everyone.ixos cable

juice21 · February 2002

danger boy, i hope you enjoy the results! let us know...

are you using an ixos bi-wire?

ncstatesman · February 2002

Juice,

sorry, but I'm new to all this. I'm still not sure on how to bi-wire . .is this correct wiring shema for lets say, the left front main (for ex, 800i)?

rcvr lft out(+)=bare12awg wire #1==>left main upr (+) post bare
=bana 12awg wire #2==>left main lwr (+) post bana

rcvr lf out(-)=bare12awg wire #3==>left main upr (-) post bare
=bana 12awg wire #4==>left main lwr (-) post bana

Thanks

ncstatesman · February 2002

oh , . . . .also, do you have to bi-wire the center channel spkr? I'm at work now, and I can't recall if the center channel spkr on the 7600 system would allow this?

goingganzo · February 2002

when i framed my wassl on my front stage i put 2 sets of 12guage wire in the walls and put plates on the walls. do you have to go all the way to the recever when you join the 2 sets or would running a jumper from one set to the other and runing 1 wire to my recever

juice21 · February 2002

Originally posted by ncstatesman
Juice,

sorry, but I'm new to all this. I'm still not sure on how to bi-wire . .is this correct wiring shema for lets say, the left front main (for ex, 800i)?

rcvr lft out(+)=bare12awg wire #1==>left main upr (+) post bare
=bana 12awg wire #2==>left main lwr (+) post bana

rcvr lf out(-)=bare12awg wire #3==>left main upr (-) post bare
=bana 12awg wire #4==>left main lwr (-) post bana

Thanks

this would be a correct way to biwire! i actually have my wires (#1&2) twisted and terminated into one banana at the reciver end. also, you can use all banana terminations at the speaker end as well. you have the idea of where the 4 wires need to go, the termination methods can be to your choice...

i do have my cs400i biwired as well. not sure if your's allows it??
double check and see...

juice21 · February 2002

goingganzo-the least amount of connections you make (ie. less jumpers and termination points), the better the signal will be able to travel, but if i understand you correctly, i believe this will still work, it's just like an extended termination option? your talking about biwiring at the speaker end, then where your wall plate is behind your rec. jumping the wires and making the connection to your rec., correct? so from L speaker (+) lower post & L speaker (+)upper post to wall plate, then jumped, then both to rec. L speaker (+) out? this would be correct....

goingganzo · February 2002

the un used conectons in the pic goes to the speakers i dont have them hooked up i put them there if i wanted to upgrade aka bi amp or bi wire and run a jumper between the 2 sets at the plate behind the recever and run 1 whire to the wall

juice21 · February 2002

so, in the wall-you have (4) 12AWG wires running to (4) binding posts at each speaker wall outlet?

if this is true, you can connect each of the 4 posts at the speaker wall outlet to each respective binding post of your speaker (jumpers removed), then jump each (+/-) post at the reciever wall outlet, and run each jumped connection into it's respective (+/-) output post on the rec.

p.s. like your quote, and yes, i am lucky enough...:D

ncstatesman · February 2002

Juice,

Thanks for the feed back . . . i getmy new 800i's on wed/thur - now about the bi-wire schema I showed you, wouldn't I have to First remove the gold plated looking bridges on the 800i spkr bind posts????

presidan · February 2002

Hey goingganzo

What type of banana plugs are you using ? Are those with or without screws ?
And were those bindings that you fit on your receiver hard to install ? Thanks

juice21 · February 2002

mcstatesman- yes, you do have to remove the factory jumpers before biwiring...

crewchief68 · February 2002

My father, a retired electrician, told me this....: Bi-wiring is simply using two wires, instead of one to carry an electrical signal from point A to point B. So tis means bi-wiring is simply hooking up two sets of cables to the left/right out-puts of your amp and running those same wires to their respective destinations....of course taking care to not cross or confuse your wires....so in effect you would use two equal length wires on each terminal....a total of 4 individual stands per speaker.
The signal (electrical impulse) travels ON the wire not in the wire.
Thats why the larger guages of wire produce a cleaner sound. I use Monster cable, but could obtain equal (perhaps better) results with a 10 guage copper lamp wire....its the same thing, , but Monster has that braiding, which was the selling point for me.
If you pay attention to the cross section views of Monster audio interconnects you'll find that they are basically self contained bi-wires. Which I can say from expierence these interconnects are well worth the money and the proper interconnects should be bought with any componet purchase.

LoboTiger · February 2002

Would this exact method of bi-wiring apply if you currently run your front L&R speaker wires to your sub? Would you run two sets of wires from your sub to your L&R fronts?

juice21 · February 2002

interesting? i am running my sub via the LFE-out on my rec. so i don't have any experince with wiring this way. I would think interupping the bi-wiring through the sub, may degrade the integrity of the bi-wiring, but i am not sure of this...

on bi-wiring, my .02...(long)

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