LC265i vs Paragrm, Niles, Sonance...??

Doug Montgomery

Hello everyone...I need some advice from the best. I am building a house in FLA and need to decide on in-wall speakers to go with my 50 inch Plasma. I have a denon AVR 3803 currently.

My issue is with home stereo installers. They only can carry certian brands and seemed to be biased to those only...since they can't sell others. I have heard RBH MC616 and Sonance Ultra II series (with encloseers).

Are the Polk LC265i's as good or better (with their enclosure) as the $1000-1400 each Sonance/Acoustic Research?

Thanks,

Doug

VR3

The LSi inwalls are great, but ur receiver wont power them to what they can do.... or any of the other speakers u listed for that matter, u need to highly consider seperate amps if you want to get those kind of speakers. my 2 cents...

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Vr3MxStyler2k3
The LSi inwalls are great, but ur receiver wont power them to what they can do.... or any of the other speakers u listed for that matter, u need to highly consider seperate amps if you want to get those kind of speakers. my 2 cents...

Hi Doug,

Yes, I agree. I'm powering my LC265is with performance enclosures with a Parasound HCA1500A. It's rated at 315 watts into a 4 ohms load. The LC265i has a nominal impedance of 4 ohms.

As far as compairing it with a Sonance Ultra II, the Sonance will only go down to 70 Hz, the Polks with enclosure will go down to 43 Hz. I got a very good price from Sounds Terrific in St. Petersburg, Florida. I paid $1,200 for everything, the speakers and enclosures. You probably won't be able to do quite as well in price, maybe $1,300, but certainly a lot better than $2,000 to $2,800.

Good luck.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

Thanks so-far...I agree the Denon is "light" for them...but I have to watch the budget. I am having a rack system built in the wall for my equipment. Seperates will come...in time

Doug

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Doug Montgomery
Thanks so-far...I agree the Denon is "light" for them...but I have to watch the budget. I am having a rack system built in the wall for my equipment. Seperates will come...in time

Doug

Hi Doug,

Isn't your Denon receiver only rated for 6 ohms? I think in the interim you might be taking a risk if you tried to power the LC265is with the Denon, especially if you plan on using them for your main speakers. I know the Sonance Ultra II's have a nominal impedance of 6 ohms, but if you're watching your budject then it would cost more than the Polks plus the cost of a decent amp in the used market. In fact for the difference you probably could buy a new amp.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 110 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD) • 150 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD) • 16 Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration

Yup..seems 6 ohms is the lowest.

O.k....while using my Denon as a A/V reciever(Decoder)..what are my options for the L/C/R as a amp add-on? (can I use my Denon to drive the rears only?)

Thanks

F1nut

I'm by no means a in-wall fan, but the Polk in-walls impressed even me.

dorokusai

The Polk's with the enclosure sound fantastic. I have not heard the Sonance, but it would make no difference.

F1nut

Sean, if you didn't like those Polk in-walls you need a hearing check.

F1nut

Were we in the same room, because I didn't hear any of that. How about you other guys that were there, what say ya?

VR3

Cant say I heard it

I was standing in the middle and was enjoying the thump of the speaker!

gidrah

Surely he is making it up.:rolleyes:

dorokusai

I don't recall any of that.

Sean, you were too busy hawking for a job to hear any speakers.

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Doug Montgomery
7 Channels equal power amplifier section • 110 watts per channel (8 ohms, 20 Hz-20 kHz, <.05%THD) • 150 watts per channel (6 ohms, 1 kHz, <.7%THD) • 16 Burr-Brown PCM-1791 24 bit, 192 kHz high resolution DACs on all eight channels, in differential configuration

Yup..seems 6 ohms is the lowest.

O.k....while using my Denon as a A/V reciever(Decoder)..what are my options for the L/C/R as a amp add-on? (can I use my Denon to drive the rears only?)

Thanks

Hi Doug,

If you're planning on using In-Walls all around for all seven speakers, then using the receiver to temporiliy power the surround back speakers would present you with the least risk. It's likely that the Denon would shut down before any serious harm occurred.

To stretch your budget dollars you could use the Denon as a preamp and defer the cost of a stand-alone preamp. It would however be recommended that you purchased some amps in the interim. I have purchased all my Parasound amps on the used market. They are all nearly mint and have performed flawlessy.

Larry

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Zero
Or the other way around.... during the demo they freaking distorted and popped a few times.... (although I'd blame the Onkyo before the speakers). Regardless, color me un-impressed.

Granted, they were cool looking.

Hi Sean,

I've been living with my LC265is for a few months now. I have never heard distortion or popping. I'm quite pleased with their performance.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

Originally posted by Larry Chanin
Hi Doug,

If you're planning on using In-Walls all around for all seven speakers, then using the receiver to temporiliy power the surround back speakers would present you with the least risk. It's likely that the Denon would shut down before any serious harm occurred.

To stretch your budget dollars you could use the Denon as a preamp and defer the cost of a stand-alone preamp. It would however be recommended that you purchased some amps in the interim. I have purchased all my Parasound amps on the used market. They are all nearly mint and have performed flawlessy.

Larry

Larry,

I was not going to use the LC265's for the rear. I was thinking more of LC60 or 80's for my vaulted cieling (I have no side walls to mount any other speakers). So use the Denon as a preamp and then what for a 6 channel amp? (Front, Center, Rear Surround and Rear Center)

Thanks Guys

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Doug Montgomery
Larry,

I was not going to use the LC265's for the rear. I was thinking more of LC60 or 80's for my vaulted cieling (I have no side walls to mount any other speakers). So use the Denon as a preamp and then what for a 6 channel amp? (Front, Center, Rear Surround and Rear Center)

Thanks Guys

Hi Doug,

Well, any of the Polk Audio LCi series have nominal impedences of 4 ohms, so if you go with them it would we wise to go the separate amplifier route.

I'm very fond of my Parasound amps. Parasound doesn't make a 6 channel amp. You could of course buy three stereo amps. I have two HCA-1500A. As I mentioned they are rated at 315 watts into 4 ohms. The HCA-1000A is a little smaller stereo amp, but it might better fit your needs. It's rated at 200 watts into 4 ohms. Parasound makes a 5-channel amp, the HCA-2500A it may be more than you need. It's rated at 300 watts into 4 ohms. Their HCA-1250A was discontinued this year, but I'm sure it's still available. It's a 5-channel amp rated at 200 watts into 4 ohms.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

Thanks Larry,

The LC265's...there rated at max of 200 watts correct?

VR3

Amps to check out...

Adcom, NAD, AMC, B&K, Outlaw Audio, Rotel, Parasound

NAD, AMC, Adcom can all do the job and wont break the bank -- Outlaw Audio is another one that won't break the bank....

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Doug Montgomery
Thanks Larry,

The LC265's...there rated at max of 200 watts correct?

Yes, but I doubt a little more power would be a problem if you were careful.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

Well I wonder...with my room setup, I don;t think I can get 7.1 setup. At most I could get 6.1. Should I go for this killer deal ($1400!!!) here:

http://www.onecall.com/PID_724.htm#

or just stick with 5.1 that I use now...using this:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/770.html

Is the jump from 5.1 to 6.1 / 7.1 worth it?

Doug

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Doug Montgomery
Well I wonder...with my room setup, I don;t think I can get 7.1 setup. At most I could get 6.1. Should I go for this killer deal ($1400!!!) here:

http://www.onecall.com/PID_724.htm#

or just stick with 5.1 that I use now...using this:

http://www.outlawaudio.com/products/770.html

Is the jump from 5.1 to 6.1 / 7.1 worth it?

Doug

Hi Doug,

When you say you don't think you can get a 7.1 setup, it that because you have room layout constraints, or because you believe the Denon can only produce 6.1 channels?

With regard the later, while it is true that the 3803 can only produce a mono surround back channel, i.e., 6.1 channels, it is recommended that two surround back speakers be used. This is because when a single surround back speaker is used there is a likelihood of a psycoacoustic reversal effect where our hearing interprets the rear sound as coming from the front. This reversal effect is eliminated by using two mono surround back speakers. Consequently your receiver has seven amplifiers (two surround back amps) even though in is only producing 6.1 channels.

So if you aren't constrained by layout ideally it would be best to plan for seven channels of amplification.

Both of those deals look great to me. With the ATI you could always buy an other stereo amp to get to 7 channels.

With regard to your question, "Is it worth it?" Only you can answer the value part of the question. However, in my previous home theater setups I used a $400 rather basic add-on surround processor (SMART CS-3X Junior Center-Surround Decoder) to go from 5.1 to 6.1 (Surround EX). I found that even with that basic system my listening enjoyment was clearly enhanced with the added back speakers. It was worth it to me.

That positive experience lead me to upgrade to a $2,800 Lexicon MC-1 preamp which has LOGIC7 surround processing that provides true stereo surround back channels. That upgrade was the most dramatic improvement in surround processing that I have experienced to date and I never regreted the expense. Finally I upgraded to a $6,000 Lexicon MC-8 which has a more refined LOGIC7 and a number of other optional surround processes and features. The upgrade was less obvious, but the sound is wonderful. I only wish I could afford the $9,000 MC-12. :rolleyes:

The point in all this is that having amplification for seven channels can be used now with a 6.1 receiver with two mono surround back channels and then it can be used in the future should you eventually decide to upgrade to a true 7.1 preamp with stereo surround back channels.

Larry

HBombToo

yup

twin

Doug Montgomery

Originally posted by Larry Chanin
When you say you don't think you can get a 7.1 setup, it that because you have room layout constraints, or because you believe the Denon can only produce 6.1 channels?

I believe it will be because of room constraints. I will try and upload a diagram of my room. Maybe you or others can help me with the layout

Doug

Doug Montgomery

Of the above amp manufactures...are there any that make a pre-amp (processor) that upconverts to DVI or allows DVI switching?

Larry Chanin

Hi Doug,

I'm not sure what you mean by "upconverts" to DVI.

I think the only preamp that offers an option for DVI/HDMI switching is the Tag McLaren AV192R processor. I believe that with all it's options it weighs in around $30,000. However, I'm not sure about it's current status as a viable audio company. About a year ago it announced it was ceasing all new development and reevaluating it's economic situation.

Anyway, I use a less expensive approach. I have an DVI Link 4 to 1 DVI switcher. It cost less than $400. I currently use it to switch a Bravo D2 DVI enabled DVD player and a Hughes HDMI enabled High Definition TiVo to my InFocus ScreenPlay projector.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

Originally posted by Larry Chanin
I'm not sure what you mean by "upconverts" to DVI.

Was late sorry..I meant Upconverts the composite/S-Video input sources to the component out.

Originally posted by Larry Chanin

Anyway, I use a less expensive approach. I have an DVI Link 4 to 1 DVI switcher. It cost less than $400. I currently use it to switch a Bravo D2 DVI enabled DVD player and a Hughes HDMI enabled High Definition TiVo to my InFocus ScreenPlay projector.
Larry

Whew..my sphinkter tightened up at that $30,000 .... I like your approach.

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Doug Montgomery
Was late sorry..I meant Upconverts the composite/S-Video input sources to the component out.

This function is performed by stand alone video scalers. Most preamps just do video switching. The Tag no doubt could do it if you selected the right option, but then your **** would get an other work out.

Larry

Doug Montgomery

Larry,

I am thinking I will keep the Denon AVR3803 as the decoder and pump the audio (6.1) into a Outlaw 770 (7 Channel amp). As I am still building a house with a $45,000 swimming pool with 7 foot spa. My money's are being used up quick.

With my configuration...a 7.1 is going to be impossible unless I build small walls along side the couch...of course anyone who is married knows THAT's not gonna happen

Larry Chanin

Hi Doug,

Is the plasma the blue rectangle on the right wall? The main speakers are the elipses on either side of it? The blue rectangles on the left are ceiling mounted side and center surrounds? You're going to have a sofa or sectional in the middle of the room?

Larry

Strong Bad

Hey guys!

Just want to chime in and say thanks for assisting my good friend Doug. We've been friends since high school. Going to miss him and his family when they move to Florida, but I won't be short on excuses at all when it comes to visiting him and his $45,000 swimming pool! Yeah Doug, it's all about the pool and the beach now my good friend, .

I'm working on him to join the party down at Troy's in October. Mark and Jesse, if he goes, we'll be packing my Explorer.

His 50" plasma TV is something very sweet! Guys, look for his current Polk lineup to go on sale sometime next year. Yeppers, there's a sweet set of SDA1B's in there! Doug, I may take that CS400 off your hands when the time comes. Been thinking about that second mono rear center that Larry was speaking of. 2 CS400's for the rear would do just nice!

Be cool!

Strong Bad