Bring Back the SDA - Fan List

Larry Chanin

Originally posted by Polkmaniac

quote:

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Originally posted by jdhdiggs
2) their head turns as they realize the guitar is not coming from the speaker, but from the kitchen

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OK, I have to admit I don't get this one...

I've heard people rave about hearing different instruments from other speakers or directions (usually with multichannel music on an HT setup, but still...) and I personally don't understand the fascination with it...

I WANT the music coming from the front speakers becuase that's where it comes from naturally. If I go to a concert, all the performers are in front of me, not over to my right and left and behind me...

So is this the SDA effect...to make the music appear to come from other directions??

Maybe I'm just skeptical becuase I haven't heard SDAs yet...I don't know...

Hi,

Sorry I'm a little late, but I just discovered this Vintage forum. (Great idea!)

I think others have responded well, but I'd like to also chime in.

It's true that some of the multi-channel sound mixes get carried away and put sounds in live presentations in unnatural locations. However, that shouldn't be confused with what Interaural Crosstalk Cancellation (SDA effect) does.

The point is that sounds in real life don't only originate from a space that is equivalent to the relatively narrow spacing of two speakers. Real life soundstages are a lot wider. What SDA does is not create a surround effect in an inappropriate location, it more accurately images a source that happens to be beyond the width of your speaker spacing. It does that by removing interaural crosstalk that is created by having two stereo sources, with sounds from the right speaker leaking into your left ear and visa versa.

There has been a lot of discussion that SDA's were created for stereo music and therefore they are more appropriate for listening to music rather than movies. While it is true that they were created for music, nevertheless I believe that their superior imaging makes them even more appropriate for movies.

The reason gets back to your valid comment that music should be presented in the front. While music presentation can have a soundstage wider than your speaker spacing, I believe that soundstages in movies are designed to be very wide, and therefore are aided by SDA even to a greater extent.

Larry

BlueMDPicker

Originally posted by Polkmaniac
OK, I have to admit I don't get this one...

Maybe I'm just skeptical becuase I haven't heard SDAs yet...I don't know...

Hi Polkmaniac,

I got my "SDA experience" recently - pretty much by accident - please see the thread "New to SDA....."

Here's the bottom line for me:

The SDA's image the performance not so much LIKE a LIVE performance; but, rather AS an ALIVE performance.

Hope that makes sense?

dudeinaroom

BRING BACK THE SDA's

candyliquor35m

I wouldn't be surprised if someone at Polk was tinkering with a smaller version of the sda's based on their recent experience with building smaller good sounding speakers. I never thought I would want to play with/get my hands on anything other than sda's until I heard Tour's Carver Amazings and Maggies 1.5. They both have their own issues. The amazings are big and heavy. The maggies have to be pulled out a few feet from the wall and lack base according to Tour. Seems like a good time for Polk to show off/demonstrate its decades of experience with building quality speakers.

BSUfbfan

I would definetly buy updated SDA's. New updated drivers with the proven SDA technology......oh, yeah!

I aquired some Carver Amazings about 4 months ago and gave them several hours of setup and listening, and while the full-range ribbon was the smoothest I have ever heard, the bass from the infinite baffle gigantic speakers was pretty pathetic. I kept finding myself back at my CRS+ listening to my favorite tunes over and over, and the tiny Polk's great soundstage and full-range sound finally KO'd the Carver's. Going, going, Audiogon.

F1nut

The SDA's didn't need "new" drivers, just upgrade the crossovers with high quality parts and you'll have all the detail and bass you'll ever want.

TroyD

BSUfbfan wrote:

I would definetly buy updated SDA's. New updated drivers with the proven SDA technology......oh, yeah!

I aquired some Carver Amazings about 4 months ago and gave them several hours of setup and listening, and while the full-range ribbon was the smoothest I have ever heard, the bass from the infinite baffle gigantic speakers was pretty pathetic. I kept finding myself back at my CRS+ listening to my favorite tunes over and over, and the tiny Polk's great soundstage and full-range sound finally KO'd the Carver's. Going, going, Audiogon.

I think room interaction my be an issue. Others here have had similar issues with the bass. I had no such issues and had bass in SPADES.

BDT

BSUfbfan

I think room interaction my be an issue. Others here have had similar issues with the bass. I had no such issues and had bass in SPADES.

That is very likely. I had only one room to use, and it is FAR from perfect. I added a 12" powered sub and the system really came together, but with the sub box and the massive size of the speakers, they consumed the room. Someday I'll have my own "listening room" and then I'll have to go on a speaker buying spree!

The SDA's didn't need "new" drivers, just upgrade the crossovers with high quality parts and you'll have all the detail and bass you'll ever want.

I was just referring to the RDO tweeters being the standard issue, I am rather fond of the tri-lam as others have pointed out.

Good point on the X-overs too, seems the components have really come a long way in the last 20 years.

madmax

Always a good topic here. If only someone started making re-issues... If I were to bring them back I would go with 1C size.
madmax

Refefer

I recall a while ago a letter from Matthew Polk to the forums, something along the lines of him liking the idea of a "modern" SDA using the drivers from the LSi series of speakers.

So why don't we make a mock-up for him? Heck, if one of us were to go and grab four of their mids, four vifa's and a couple PR's, I don't see why we couldn't recreate an SDA-2 series. Quite a few of us here know how to read a cross-over diagram, and those of us with SDA-2's could reverse engineer the x-overs from the originals.

I figure if we can get the thiel-small parameters, we could work out the enclosure dimensions and unless I'm mistaken, a passive radiator is computed exactly like a bass-reflex design- which the LSi series already uses quite well.

Judging by how small the Lsi 7's are and the amount of bass they produce (not amazing, but not bad at all, considering), I think we could shrink down the enclosure by a fair amount, which will make them more marketable by far.

I'm willing to donate some money into a group project.

heiney9

If Threshold can re-issue the classic S/350 stasis amplifer for about $1000 less than the original sold for. Why not Polk doing a re-issue of one or a few SDA models? Not sure how the reissued Threshold is selling, but Polk has the clout to pull it off.

Just think what a limited edition reissue Polk SDA would bring on e-bay in a few years. Only way it would be a flop is if it was like Gibson guitars where the re-issues never come close to the originals in sound or collectability.

Food for thought

H9

madmax

To me a re-issue sounds cool but I wonder if people would pay the price?

Lets consider one is available in the mid size catagory. It looks a lot sleeker than the old 1C and sounds a little more detailed. Still all passive and no monkey business with any electronics.

How much would you pay for it?
madmax

heiney9

madmax wrote:

To me a re-issue sounds cool but I wonder if people would pay the price?

Lets consider one is available in the mid size catagory. It looks a lot sleeker than the old 1C and sounds a little more detailed. Still all passive and no monkey business with any electronics.

How much would you pay for it?
madmax

That's an unfair question for people like us on the forum because we've heard them and have much experience with them and would most definetly pay more than the average Joe.

Me personally if they could get it done around the price of the Lsi 15's I'd be all over it.

There also would be a stigma attatched to Polk for revisiting the SDA technology since few of the critics took them as serious speakers in the beginning. And as much as WE like to say reviews and approval from the audio world don't matter; it does when it comes to moving products.

But if your talking a one off project for nostalgia then mass approval doesn't really mean anything, but anything for the long term unfortuneatly needs some sort of commercial approval in this day and age.

H9

madmax

The LSi15's have an MSRP of $1850 and sell for around $1300 to $1500 in stores. Lets just say they sell for $1200. We are asking for a speaker with twice the complement of speakers in a larger box for the same price in a much lower quantity of production. I forget exactly but didn't the 1C's sell somewhere around $2K in the 90's? No matter, the LSi15 is a better comparison anyway. I'm guessing in limited quantities they would run maybe $2800 out the door. That is quite a step up over picking up an old pair of 1C's for $700. Of course thats what they are, an old pair of 1C's. I'm guessing I'm willing to spend maybe $1500 to $1700. I don't think they can do it for that without really cheaping out on everything though.

hearingimpared

madmax wrote:

The LSi15's have an MSRP of $1850 and sell for around $1300 to $1500 in stores. Lets just say they sell for $1200. We are asking for a speaker with twice the complement of speakers in a larger box for the same price in a much lower quantity of production. I forget exactly but didn't the 1C's sell somewhere around $2K in the 90's? No matter, the LSi15 is a better comparison anyway. I'm guessing in limited quantities they would run maybe $2800 out the door. That is quite a step up over picking up an old pair of 1C's for $700. Of course thats what they are, an old pair of 1C's. I'm guessing I'm willing to spend maybe $1500 to $1700. I don't think they can do it for that without really cheaping out on everything though.

Summary: Everything is in boxes waiting to move into new home with baseline 2 channel rig almost complete and intact.

Question: I just aquired the 1.2 TLs this past August 12th. Should I upgrade from the SL3000s to the new silk domes or should I take a listen first and upgrade accordingly. I love the sound of analog/vinyl so that lends this next question are the SL3000s like glass breaking digital compared to the silk domes?

My hearing memory with the old SRSs is that with analog they were very nice, with the digital of the late 80s/early 90s it was GOD aweful.

Thanks,
Joe

PS: Chuck what happened to your signature . . . I need to obsess and drool!!!

Edit: Sorry I just read this whole thread and was responding to another post about updating/upgrading the SDAs so please ignore the quotes above.

ND13

I'd buy that for a dollar!!!

univera

Since so many here are handy and build their own cabinets, what would stop anyone from building their own cabinets and buying the parts? I guess it would be lack of availabilty of some of the older drivers?

heiney9

madmax wrote:

The LSi15's have an MSRP of $1850 and sell for around $1300 to $1500 in stores. Lets just say they sell for $1200. We are asking for a speaker with twice the complement of speakers in a larger box for the same price in a much lower quantity of production. I forget exactly but didn't the 1C's sell somewhere around $2K in the 90's? No matter, the LSi15 is a better comparison anyway. I'm guessing in limited quantities they would run maybe $2800 out the door. That is quite a step up over picking up an old pair of 1C's for $700. Of course thats what they are, an old pair of 1C's. I'm guessing I'm willing to spend maybe $1500 to $1700. I don't think they can do it for that without really cheaping out on everything though.

The thing is they already have the technology and they already have the drivers. They have cabinet making materials as well as the means to mass produce cabinets on the cheap. This is not a "from scratch" speaker, Llike the original SDA's or the Lsi line. They've done the R & D, now it's a matter of tweaking the raw parts and assembly. Sure it's a simplistic view, but you get the picture. This isn't building something that started out as a flicker of an idea in an engineers head. Much of the expense has already been depreciated and now it's a matter of coming up with a modern day SDA with the material already on hand.

H9

heiney9

hearingimpared wrote:

PS: Chuck what happened to your signature . . . I need to obsess and drool!!!

A signature only shows once a page. This is to cut down on the clutter if a when a person is posting mutiple reply's on one page. If this goes to another page and MM posts his sig will be there.

disneyjoe7

Are there people out there how don't like SDA's?

hearingimpared

heiney9 wrote:

A signature only shows once a page. This is to cut down on the clutter if a when a person is posting mutiple reply's on one page. If this goes to another page and MM posts his sig will be there.

Thanks for the info. . .every chance I get to compliment MM on his system I jump on it.

snow

well i have to admit i am amazed at the sound that a pair of sda sars 1.2 tl puts out. i hooked them up today in a place where i could actually turn it up a lttle bit and the soundstage is incredibile. using a carver TFM-35X amp for 2 channel stereo. on some songs it actually seems that people were behind me singing, impossible because i have the couch agianst the wall. but its sound stage is much wider than the mains i was using before its no contest as which is the better speaker. the bass is amazing considering that its a passive woofer. plenty deep and lots of slam. enough if your only 15 feet away or so it will actually slam you in the chest on faster passages hard enough to feel like someone hit you.:eek: i cant wait to hear how these sound with the new to me pre pro i bought a few days ago on audiogon. a lexicon MC-1 version 4. i am using an adcom 2 channel preamp now with only analog inputs. im sure that once i can hook up an coxial digital or toslink from my cd or dvd player the quality will improve even more. i have nothing against the LSI-15 for example but i listened to those when they came out and were very nice speakers. but imho they dont compare to these. and to all the doubters and haters that dont belive in these come by and listen and you will leave a changed person lmao:) REGARDS SNOW

BobMcG

TroyD wrote:

I think room interaction my be an issue. Others here have had similar issues with the bass. I had no such issues and had bass in SPADES.

BDT

I have no such issues with the bass output or reproduction of my CAs either. Bass in SPADES alright!

BobMcG

I almost forgot... As if it needs to be reiterated...

BRING BACK THE SDA!

dudeinaroom

I think newer drivers and upgraded crossovers might not hurt, But do not port them. Keep it a passive radiator design. Possible use a divers with a lower fs, and use PR's tuned to a lower freq. Them hope for a smooth curve and a lower f3, some thing like 20 hz +/-5 hz.(should have usable sub sonics think Nemo finger taping on fish tank). Any who I like me 2'a just the way they are sl2000's and all(ok the crossover could be reworked, as they are original and likely worn out).

Bring Back the SDA's





even though I can not afford them.

hearingimpared

Bring Back the SDA's

DollarDave

Bring back the CRS+'s - they fit the smaller size criteria and they kick-****.

DarqueKnight

I will be happy, thrilled, and content if they just continue to make replacement parts available.:)

tugboat

On the topic of the SDA effect surround you and it being unnatural... I'm by now means an expert and my thought on it is totally my own. I believe the most natural sound the recording should be mixed only enough to put the instrument in it's proper location and nothing else. I think that when sounds extend too far out or around you is due to the engineer using special processing to try and let listeners of standard stereo speakers experience wider soundstage or other audio effects. It's when the SDAs run into this that they really start to extend to your sides or behind you. Don't know if anyone here listens to RAP, but there is a song from NWA "Chin Check." This song has a vocal that is mixed in such a way that it comes from all around you and makes everyone I've played it for look all around them and get up to make sure my surrounds aren't on. Another one is from Madonna "The Power of Good-bye." It is a good effect, but not a natural one. I find that music that displays no exagerrated stereo effects and such play exactly as intended on my 1.2TLs.

Oh, another good one to listen to is from CCR "Susie-Q"

Now I could be completely wrong in my assumption. It just came to me one day when I found an old Realistic EQ in my closet. It had a "stereo expander" feature that kind of worked, but at the expense of sonic quality (hence being in the closet for 15 years).

dudeinaroom

tugboat wrote:

Now I could be completely wrong in my assumption. It just came to me one day when I found an old Realistic EQ in my closet. It had a "stereo expander" feature that kind of worked, but at the expense of sonic quality (hence being in the closet for 15 years).

I think I have the same one you have. it's in my closet:D