Integrated vs. separates - What would you do?

polkatese · July 2004

I am in the market for a solid two channels integrated amp that will be able to handle LSi15 4 ohms load (i.e. high current amps). A couple questions to all:

1. Has anyone been able to observe a *noticeable* audio quality difference between a solid integrated and a preamp/power of comparable price bracket?

2. Any recommendation(s) of worthy to audition integrated amps (preferably with discrete and separate toroidal monoblock for each channel design) in the $1k - $2k price range?

TIA for your feedback and comments..

dcarlson · July 2004

Musical Fidelity falls into your price range.

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/a32series.html

polkatese · July 2004

thanks, it is on my list, any opinion on MF amps profile?

tryrrthg · July 2004

I just bought a used Arcam A85 and LOVE it. I am replacing McCormack seperates which are pretty fantastic themselves. The Arcam has gotten great reviews and it is uprgradeable to become a 5.1 preamp for surround sources. (I am not sure if Arcam has come out with the upgrade yet...) The Arcam is rated at 85 watts into 8 ohms and around 150 for 4 ohms. However, stereophile's review measured around 120 at full power and 200 watts into 4 ohms. The A85 powers my Dynaudio speakers with ease and they are known for their appetite for power. The reviewer even used my Dyn's in his review of the Arcam below.

Arcam A85 Review

I believe the A85 has been replaced by a new model, the A90 and has a little more power...

If you want a little more power the FMJ (Full Metal Jacket) line from Arcam is a step up. The FMJ A32 is a great integrated amp also, and can be found used in your price range.

FMJ A32 review

tryrrthg · July 2004

Just remembered two other integrateds in your price range (used prices). The Plinius 8100 and 8200 are great amps from what I have read. You should also have no problems getting a used Krell KAV 300i in your price range. And we all know Krell would have no problems powering LSI's!

dcarlson · July 2004

Originally posted by ATCVenom
If this A3.2 integrated does not do the trick for me, I will be looking at the Arcam 90 integrated.

Are you saying you have it or are planning on getting it?

dcarlson · July 2004

Cool.

polkatese · July 2004

Thanks all for the comments and recommendations, I will go through the process. One research note, Krell 300i at $950+ (used, discon.) seems to be well known to have great bass control and dynamic...

Sean,
can I put my first dibs on that MF, just in case

dcarlson · July 2004

Originally posted by polkatese

Sean,
can I put my first dibs on that MF, just in case

LOL, we all know him too well, don't we?

Early B. · July 2004

1. Has anyone been able to observe a *noticeable* audio quality difference between a solid integrated and a preamp/power of comparable price bracket?

Polkatese -- no one really responded to your first question yet. Great question. I, too, am interested in hearing what folks have to say about this issue.

dcarlson · July 2004

Personally, if I had oodles of cash to spend I'd go separates. I don't, so I can't. With separates, on top of the separate boxes you need to budget for an extra set of interconnects and an extra power cord of similar quality to the components you're matching up. That could be quite a bit extra but probably worth it in the end because you're talking separate power supplies for pre and amp. IMO, at $1000-$2000 retail, an integrated would be a better bang for the buck.

polkatese · July 2004

Originally posted by dcarlson
Personally, if I had oodles of cash to spend I'd go separates. I don't, so I can't. With separates, on top of the separate boxes you need to budget for an extra set of interconnects and an extra power cord of similar quality to the components you're matching up. That could be quite a bit extra but probably worth it in the end because you're talking separate power supplies for pre and amp. IMO, at $1000-$2000 retail, an integrated would be a better bang for the buck.

that is what I think a very sound approach to the process (of deciding). So far, Krell, MF, Arcam FMJ look very promising. From cost perspective, it seems that Krell KAV300i (used) is a strong contender from value point, unless someone can point me to a comparison between 300i, A32, and/or A3.2

TroyD · July 2004

Personally, I think a good integrated amp is a good thing.

I have a couple and while I haven't really A/B'd them to separates, I really really like them.

F1 has a high tone MF integrated that is STELLAR. Also if you've got that kind of cash, a Jolida integrated might be in your price range as well as maybe CJ. Not sure about new but definately used. I think a hybrid tube integrated is a the way to go.

Hell, Sam Tellig in Stereophile routinely reviews integrateds in that price range..go online and look over his past reviews and then go out and get your demo on.

Just my .02

BDT

I-SIG · July 2004

Originally posted by polkatese
that is what I think a very sound approach to the process (of deciding). So far, Krell, MF, Arcam FMJ look very promising. From cost perspective, it seems that Krell KAV300i (used) is a strong contender from value point, unless someone can point me to a comparison between 300i, A32, and/or A3.2

I've seen stuff here an other places that the Krell you speak of doesn't quite live up to Krell's reputation and that it is a bit disappointing. Maybe someone else can be more specific for me.

Wes

dorokusai · July 2004

I think the integrated is also a very good idea. A high quality integrated will perform very well at all levels. I was close to picking up the NAD S300 before moving into a different bracket.

The separation of internal components typically gets MUCH better the more money you spend, and I know you are looking into a quality piece....so that whole argument for the NEED for separates is almost moot. I mean that in the shielding of the internals, etc.

I personally have not heard huge differences in like priced integrated amplifiers. The differences were always subtle, not extraordinary.

I vote SS Integrated. I am looking forward to hearing of your choice.

pjdami · July 2004

edit.

pm sent.

F1nut · July 2004

goingganzo · July 2004

seprates are better sence you can buy a great amp. sence a great amp is great amp. olny thing you have to upgrade is your pre. and most pre you can upgrade them instead of buying new. but you also have cost.

polkatese · July 2004

Thanks, Guys! Jesse, that's a very comprehensive list, gracias!

Paul, reply sent! (first one went thru, second one rejected, time to clean up your inbox, Pauly....:)

A wonderful support group at work!

F1nut · July 2004

"seprates are better"

Wanna bet???

dcarlson · July 2004

How's this?

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/kwframeset.html

polkatese · July 2004

Originally posted by dcarlson
How's this?

http://www.musicalfidelity.com/kwframeset.html

Is that the new model of MF BBQ grill?

It looks great, and I won't even dare to venture on how good it must sound, one day when the kids are out of the house, I might be lucky enough to afford one....

goingganzo · July 2004

I WONDER WHAT THE DAMMAGE IT WILL COST TO OWN 1 OF THOES OR MAKE THAT 2 sorry about the caps it got stuck and dient want to re type

LuSh · July 2004

For over 20 years most Audiophiles agreed amp/pre amp was the only way to get truely high end sound.

Then a strange French company took that myth and turned it on its head. YBA. Yves Bernard Andre' challenged that myth citing that amp/preamps require interconnects that break the chain. His approach was keep it simple stuipd. With one power supply, fewer interconnects he contended that you could deliver an intergrated amp that was truely high end.

This really changed the industry. Suddenly other higher end companies were focusing on high end intergrated's. Canadian company's such as SimAudio and Classe' have come up with some wonderfull intergrateds, perhaps some of the best in the world. The SimAudio i-5 and Classe' CAP 151 have limited power, but employ high high current...and are suitable for all but the hardest loads. The Plinius intergrated's are also well regarded. The YBA's are to this day considered a reference point when talkin about intergrateds.

Some day if I ever won the Lotto, I would go amp/preamp...but within the next 5 years I'm going to try and upgrade my SimAudio -5080 to a Classe' 151 or SimAudio i-5. And i'll be very happy. Either one of those intergrateds could outperform most of the amp/pre's talked about within these forums.

wire · July 2004

I went from a Carver receiver 150 per to a Carver ct17 - Bryston 4b , There was a difference in sound , that was a longtime ago and still run the same system today , not many changes in the 4b since then and the Carver pre runs smooth .

F1nut · July 2004

The king of integrated amps.

dcarlson · July 2004

Originally posted by F1nut
The king of integrated amps.

So.... How's about a pic of yours.

TroyD · July 2004

Originally posted by F1nut
The king of integrated amps.

No one likes a braggart...:D

I'd also invest in better locks on your doors.

BDT

F1nut · July 2004

Huh? I don't have one of those, I just like the picture.

tryrrthg · July 2004

Originally posted by F1nut
I've finished up my demo time with the Nordost Solar Wind cables, a big thank you to Mark for puting this together and Paul from Granite Audio for suppling the cables.

I'll ship these out to Al as soon as I get the address from Mark.

Now for the review......................

Equipment list:
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300 Integrated Amp 475 wpc @ 6 ohms
Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista SACD Player
Polk Audio SDA SRS 2.3TL Speakers with Cardas Gold Binding Posts and MIT Magnum Jumpers
MIT MH-750 Shotgun Bi-Wire Speaker Cables
MIT S1 Shotgun Interconnect Cables

LIAR!

dorokusai · July 2004

He is a liar! The only stereo he actually has is a pair of Radio Shack speakers tied together with a vintage Adidas headband that he uses for headphones....while he sits around barefoot in his Simon & Garfunkle tour tshirt. Musical Fidelity my ****!

Integrated vs. separates - What would you do?

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