LSI series and Denon 3805 - Advice Needed

TroyD

My .02?

Hold on to the gear you have for now. IMO, the receiver will work if used carefully. Add separate amps as time and money allow. If you keep your eyes open you can run accross some decent power amps on the cheap. If you don't mind used amps, you can find them very reasonable.

BDT

Dr. Spec

Nice amp, Henry. (thumbs up)

Again, keep in mind the reviewer hotlinked earlier in this thread liked the 3805/Outlaw combo better than the Outlaw/Outlaw combo.

I would hold onto the 3805 (it's a very trick piece) and either add monoblocks or a multichannel amp down the road.

HBombToo

Originally posted by Dr. Spec

Again, keep in mind the reviewer hotlinked earlier in this thread liked the 3805/Outlaw combo better than the Outlaw/Outlaw combo.

I would hold onto the 3805 (it's a very trick piece) and either add monoblocks or a multichannel amp down the road.

Ed Zachary!!! I was just providing info that would help solidify the Outlaw product.

HBomb

Dr. Spec

Ed Zachary!!! I was just providing info that would help solidify the Outlaw product.

And it is indeed a SOLID product, Henry.

There is a thread over at AVS on the 3805 and its continuous power performance with all channels driven into 4 ohms is really piss poor; even worse than I thought. I'm going from memory, but it's around 20 watts all channels driven into 4 ohms with about 2% THD. It simply can't drive a low impedance load well.

It's apparent where Denon sinks its money; into the front end; all the DACs and DSP are top shelf stuff. And to be fair, Denon doesn't rate the amp section for 4 ohms, but OTOH it didn't do terribly well into an 8 ohm load either. This is not to bash Denon - they make a fine sounding AVR; it's just the facts.

My system perked up noticeably with the addtion of the three M200 monoblocks up front and the 3803 now drives the surrounds even better and runs very cool to the touch.

In comparison, the Outlaw M200 monoblock (reviewed by Doc Johnson in Secrets) ran a solid 300+ watts continous for over an hour into a 4 ohm load while meeting its rated THD and FR. Outlaw is another company that doesn't **** with specs.

See the "Ohm" thread for more info on stuff like this; manufacturers play a numbers game with power ratings. I think the FTC needs to revise the standard and make them rate the multichannel amps in continuous power with all channels driven.

PolkWannabie

Although this game is played by many it appears to be far more pervasive in receivers than in separate amps.

I think those who are into building separate amps are well aware that by definition this is where virtually all audiophiles and most serious enthusiasts will be buying and too much playing with numbers will lose them high end business in a hurry and thus their reputation. The receiver market while attracting some audio enthusiasts also gets the whole rest of the market i.e. those that just want sound in a room and thus are much less likely to be affected by tossing erroneous numbers around.

Dr. Spec

Although this game is played by many it appears to be far more pervasive in receivers than in separate amps.

I agree.

One good indicator of a higher quality amp stage is when the manufacturer voluntarily rates the amp (AVR or otherwise) with all channels driven simultaneously; that shows confidence and invites independent scrutiny.

shiu

DOC, if we take a look at those HK models, their "all channel driven" numbers are impressive, when compared to Denon, Yamaha, or even Sony ES models in the same price range. However, if you compare their 1, & 2 channel numbers, you will find that the HK models don't come out on top. Don't you think that tells us receivers that are well known for quoting honest all channel driven numbers (at least the HK models) basically sink their money in the power supply deparment whereas Denon/Yamaha actually invest more on their amplifier sections?

The point I am making is that Denon's amplifiers are not the weak link, as indicated by their impressive (say AVR3805 vs AVR630) 1, 2 channel numbers (bench tested). Its the power supply that prevents it from producing equally impressive all channels driven numbers.

tjmaxwell

As an update, I bit the bullet and ordered a 7100 amp from Outlaw this morning. My whole setup should be installed by this weekend. I just hope this all turns out the be worth all the extra money and hassle.

Now, can someone recommend some good cables to use to connect my Denon 3805 to the amp? Unless I'm mistaken, standard RCA connectors are used. By using RCA (analog) cables, wouldn't that be sort of a weak link in a digital system? In other words, by using analog cables to connect the receiver to the amp, wouldn't that convert the sound from digital to analog? Likely I'm off-base here, but your feedback is appreciated.

Anyway, can you recommend some cables and where (online) to buy them? Thanks!

nemos2

TJ, I do not think that you will be upset with the setup down the road. I was in a very similar setup....

I had a chance to grab the lSi15's at a good price so I did, but they were being powered by my Denon 2400...the step below the 3800 (of the time). I bought the out law 755 and it really added to the great Lsi15's. Now I never ran a full setup of LSi's off my denon but....adding the amp did wonders...Outlaw is a great company as well.

As for cables.......that can start another thread just as long as this one.....but...check out outlaw's interconnects...very very solid. That is what I am using between my denon and the outlaw...

Congrats on the outlaw..