Monster 14-4 vs Audioquest 14-4
Comments
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So here is my issue with Spades from Audioquest. I took a few quick pic's of my Focal center channel.
They have very nice binding posts on the back and are designed to except spades AND give you excellent grip to tighten down on a spade connector.
Here are a few AQ spades I have
And here is them connected to the binding post
So by looking at the picture with the spade attached, you think you got this wonder contact surface most audiophiles are let to believe. Well let me make my case that this isn't true. The focal binding posts you can unscrew it to expose the actual contact surface. Look at these 2 pictures.
As you can see, the spade doesn't even fully contact with the center post to give you that so called contact surface we all want to have right? But it doesn't.
Now I have other spades in Theater Ovals which are very nice cables and I actually like the Spades as they grip pretty well. They are a bit blocky in design but they work well with their cables and I really dig the cables. Look how there spades attach.
So now you're thinking this must be a better design right? Wrong, sucks to as take a look under the hood.
So this is my issue with Spade connectors, these are not the only ones I have worked with, the only ones I have used that actually make great surface contact is the Kimber Kable Post Masters. They fit snug all the way around the binding post and with the center compression ring, they really give you actual surface contact that can rival a banana plug. I don't have any on hand , I sold all my Kimber stuff many years ago like a fool, I should have held on to them.
So, it looks to me like you had the wrong size spades for your Focals. They do sell larger sizes. Even with that partial contact on the tips shown in one of the photos, I'd prefer that to bananas. The thickness of pure copper and having both sides make contact are preferable to me over the thin flexible material and smallish contact area of most bananas. I like the vice-like grip that spades give.
You like bananas. That's fine. Everyone has a their own preferences. Those Focals are also unusual with the orientation of the binding posts, so that comes in to play also. Like I said, I prefer bananas for all my HT/TV viewing setups.
Unfortunately no they don't. They have smaller ones , the ones I have are the biggest ones they make. I think it's a stupid design as the spade on most binding posts don't sit all the way in. I also hate tightening the binding posts with wrenches just to keep the spade from falling out.
I also don't think there is any electrical benefit from using spades over a quality banana plug. Not knocking anyone who likes Spades, I personally grown to not like them. Again the only spade I do however would use in the future is the Kimber Postmaster with the material in the middle that compresses. If any of you have used those, you know how good they are.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
What's wrong with tightening the binding posts with a wrench or nut driver?
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I prefer spades to banana connections, I use a nut driver to tighten them, but you have to have quality binding posts to do this without risking damage.
I always carried a set of nut drivers in my Installation tool bag for this very reason. The plastic binding posts like you find on the older RT's , you have to be careful or you can easily break them.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
To be clear, I was talking about the Monster banana plugs, like the ones Dan shows with his Focals above.
I used to have a lot of the Monster connectors beca
use that was my preferred convenient way to terminate plain copper 10 AWG speaker wire I used to use for home theater. Some of the runs I had were 40 ft long to get to the rear surround speakers. I think they had a spade option for the connector in addition to the banana plug option. Not sure if I still have them but I probably had 20 to 30 of them years ago. I think that was one of the best products they ever made!
I've been using cold welded locking banana speaker cables for several years now for home theater.
If I understand your comment, I think you are referring to the Monster cable "Monster Lock" speaker terminations. These came on their MCX and higher end cables. You can buy them and install them on any speaker wire you like back then. Now that I'm thinking about them, they were genius and Oh so damn good. Monster really explored all of this back and the day.
This design really give you the max flexibility as you can try out banana , Spade , pin and a bare wire like design on whatever side you want. If you have an amp or speaker that can except all of these, you can try them all out and stick with what you like. If you got new amps or speakers with different termination abilities, you didn't have to buy new cables, you simply just changed the ends by unscrewing what you were using and change to what is needed. I use to have a lot of them back in the day.
Here is a pic of them in action with the Spades screwed on. These where on my LSI 15's
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Basically what I use to do as well. I did at one point use Spades on both sides back when I was deep into Kimber Kable. I had 4TC and 8TC cables which some of them where Spade to Spade, some where Banana to Spade and others where Banana to Banana. All Kimber ends and some where custom built my me. We use to carry Kimber in bulk so I had the pleasure of being able to just buy the lengths I wanted and the Kimber ends and build them to my liking. Some I just purchased fully Kimber assembled.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
What's wrong with tightening the binding posts with a wrench or nut driver?
Nothing as long as you don't over tighten. Sometimes Spades can slip around and not stay where you want them to be. Like the angle you prefer them to drape the speaker wire the way you want them to go so with that in mind, you can easily over tighten and break the binding post or spin it in side the speaker, I have done both and it sucks.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Now that I have looked at the old Monstercable Spades and looked at some old pics of Audioquest spades, the Monster spades fit most binding posts way better than the Audioquest ones do. They Audioquest spades are probably a better quality spade as far as quality of metal used but the fitment for at least all the speakers I have owned, they never ever fit perfectly or how I would like them to.
Here is an old kinda blurry pic of my old audioqest CV-8 speaker cables terminated in Spades on my Old Dynaudio Audience 82 speakers. It's an old picture but you can still see the fitment of the spades on those binding posts. Nothing unique about them, a lot of higher end speakers back in the day used the same exact design.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
On the PS Audio xStream Statement speaker cables I used to have, those were too heavy and inflexible for the banana plugs they provided so they would bend and break. They had the option of using spades as well but those were also difficult to use because the cables were so hard to bend so they'd stay where they were supposed to.
Those cables were thicker than most after market power cords. They did produce a nice smooth sound but were really not a practical design. Probably partly why PS Audio got out of the cable business and started recommending Audioquest products. I switched over to Audioquest first then MIT for two channel systems. Blue Jeans Cable Ten White for home theater surrounds. All bananas now. -
On the PS Audio xStream Statement speaker cables I used to have, those were too heavy and inflexible for the banana plugs they provided so they would bend and break. They had the option of using spades as well but those were also difficult to use because the cables were so hard to bend so they'd stay where they were supposed to.
Those cables were thicker than most after market power cords. They did produce a nice smooth sound but were really not a practical design. Probably partly why PS Audio got out of the cable business and started recommending Audioquest products. I switched over to Audioquest first then MIT for two channel systems. Blue Jeans Cable Ten White for home theater surrounds. All bananas now.
The worse thing about higher end cables of any kind is stiffness and the lack of ease of ability to work with. I absolutely hate those traits in any cable despite how good the end results are. Pain in cables I'm so over in mph older age , I just don't want to deal with it anymore. Just like 80-100 lb power amps I have to move around especially when you change them out as frequently as I do. Even my 50 LB Integra AVR I'm not fond of moving if and when I have to.
I didn't know PS Audio got out of the cable business. Last I shopped with them was to buy the 20 amp replacement receptacle I put in my system all those years ago. Which I also replaced that with a Audioquest version of the same exact thing.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Here is a fun little banana plug I really adore and have owned for decades. They are made by Vienna Acoustics and came with the Waltz speakers. They are on wall speakers that also came with white gloves.
Here they are plugged into my Mythos ST towers. Pictures where taken in August 2009.
These are some custom built by me ST or STS tower speaker and Subwoofer cables into one package. I use to make these when we where installing them on the regular back in my Def Tech days. Build was Audioqest FLX 14/2 , ITC 1.1 with Audioquest RCA ends wrapped in Flex wrapping and purple heat srink wrap.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I prefer spades to banana connections, I use a nut driver to tighten them, but you have to have quality binding posts to do this without risking damage.
I always carried a set of nut drivers in my Installation tool bag for this very reason. The plastic binding posts like you find on the older RT's , you have to be careful or you can easily break them.
My amplifier and speakers do not have plastic binding posts. -
Thanks, but that one missing pair would drive me crazy 🤣
You can let Dan have them.
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nooshinjohn wrote: »Any discussion of Monster products is best left for the folks at ASR. They seem to appreciate cheap Chinese made garbage over there.
Who is ASR?
Audio Science Review. It’s a site/forum.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php"....not everything that can be counted counts, and not everything that counts can be counted." William Bruce Cameron, Informal Sociology: A Casual Introduction to Sociological Thinking (1963) -
Google AI summary, but matches with what a lot of audio hobbyists who actually listen to music perceive with their ears:
Common Criticisms of Audio Science Review:
Over-reliance on Measurements: Critics argue that focusing exclusively on engineering benchmarks like SINAD (Signal-to-Noise-and-Distortion ratio) misses the nuance of how equipment sounds in real-world, subjective scenarios.
Dismissal of Subjectivity: The forum can be hostile to subjective reviews, with members frequently dismissing qualitative user experiences, often leading to a "one-size-fits-all" approach to audio quality.
"Snake Oil" Rhetoric: While identifying poorly designed products is a goal, the aggressive labeling of expensive, subjective-focused, or esoteric gear as "snake oil" can lead to toxic, polarized debates.
Measurement Relevance: Some critics argue that the measurements performed, particularly on cables or power conditioners, do not always provide a complete picture of performance or potential, or that the audible thresholds for the measured differences are not clearly defined.
Influence of One Person: The site is heavily driven by the measurements of a single person, which can lead to a narrow, unchallenged, or biased view of audio quality. -
Thanks, but that one missing pair would drive me crazy 🤣
You can let Dan have them.
Hahaha. Yeah, it’d drive me nuts too. I’d have to find another pair.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
skipshot12 wrote: »Was using the Nakamichi locking bananas on my Monster ME2K Sigma's, really like those connectors.
Only reason I went with the Naks was they were large enough to accept the 7 gauge conductors on the Monster Sigma's.
Not positive on the gauge... it's possible they could be 6 gauge.
I had some knockoff variation of those and those are the ones that would get stuck inside the terminal holes. Lesson learned. Don't try to save so much buying knockoffs. Maybe at some point, I need to re-vist my living room wiring and replace those Sewells with actual Monster versions. I think I need 6 pairs total, so it shouldn't be too expensive. At the time, I was bleeding money to a bunch of different things in the new house, but now...maybe I'll swap them.
I’ve got several…not sure if I have 6 pairs though. I’ll check and let you know if you’re interested.
To be clear, I was talking about the Monster banana plugs, like the ones Dan shows with his Focals above.
I pair short of 6. I forgot that I’m actually still using 5 pair of these in my HT.
Anyway, if you want the 5 pair, let me know. Just pay shipping.
I'd take them if he doesn't want them.
Yours if you want them. PM me your address. Shipping should be cheap…worst case $13ish for a small flat rate box.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden -
EndersShadow wrote: »nooshinjohn wrote: »Any discussion of Monster products is best left for the folks at ASR. They seem to appreciate cheap Chinese made garbage over there.
Who is ASR?
Audio Science Review. It’s a site/forum.
https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php
I'm horrible at acronym's, thanks man.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Google AI summary, but matches with what a lot of audio hobbyists who actually listen to music perceive with their ears:
Common Criticisms of Audio Science Review:
Over-reliance on Measurements: Critics argue that focusing exclusively on engineering benchmarks like SINAD (Signal-to-Noise-and-Distortion ratio) misses the nuance of how equipment sounds in real-world, subjective scenarios.
Dismissal of Subjectivity: The forum can be hostile to subjective reviews, with members frequently dismissing qualitative user experiences, often leading to a "one-size-fits-all" approach to audio quality.
"Snake Oil" Rhetoric: While identifying poorly designed products is a goal, the aggressive labeling of expensive, subjective-focused, or esoteric gear as "snake oil" can lead to toxic, polarized debates.
Measurement Relevance: Some critics argue that the measurements performed, particularly on cables or power conditioners, do not always provide a complete picture of performance or potential, or that the audible thresholds for the measured differences are not clearly defined.
Influence of One Person: The site is heavily driven by the measurements of a single person, which can lead to a narrow, unchallenged, or biased view of audio quality.
I think this is the bottom line with our hobby. It's a hobby, it's subjective , it is also objective. There are facts , measurements , Frequency responses etc but in the end you're replaying music in your home in your room on the equipment you selected to make it enjoyable. With that being said, It doesn't matter what speakers, amps , cables , room treatments you own or like, it only matters to the person listening. We all can judge each other's systems, belief system or what have you but at the end of the day , this is actually a hobby and a luxury.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
