Out on Vinyl
mantis
Posts: 17,200
So I sold my Musical Fidelity M6i to a guy in New Jersey and he is really into Vinyl. He has a pretty big collection and is in that rabbit hole mode with buying equipment etc.
Well he called me and asked if I would come over and add a Krell KAV250A to the Musical Fidelity and use the MF as a Preamp.
I told him the he didn't need the Krell as the MF has plenty of power for his room and for his speaker and subwoofer setup. He owns B&W N805 Bookshelf speakers on B&W stands and a Velodyne Subwoofer. The room is medium size and the MF give them all they can handle with plenty of reserve power left over. BUT he found the Krell at a good deal and couldn't pass it up , Yup Rabbit hole move here.
He then got a new Cartridge for his Rega Turnable which already had a very nice needle setup on it and sounded wonderful. Well the new cartridge and needle setup sucks. I forget the brand it was but it was expensive , very low output , the clarity and detail his other cartridge needle setup I felt was way better and he agreed.
So I proceeded to connect the Krell and when I turned in on, he didn't hear any difference at all. Nothing . I told him the Musical Fidelity has plenty of power and I felt it was a waste to connect the Krell amp as he would never ever be able to flex it's power.
I moved over to a CD and honestly the cd's we listened to vs the Vinyl we listened to on that new cartridge needle setup sucked in comparison. He's selling it right away.
I had to sit him down and put some brakes on his quest as I did get him to buy some room treatments, a area rug as the room was very alive. It sounds much better now and playing CD's really makes his setup shine. I felt bad for him about the cartridge and I told him to put his old one back on and forget trying to improve that area.
The amount of work that goes into listening to Vinyl, I'm out. I have 2 tables and they are back in my basement. It was fun for a few times but really with how good CD's are , even better easy Streaming music which is damn good and you don't have to do all that work just to sit down kick back with a glass of wine and listen to some good music.
Well he called me and asked if I would come over and add a Krell KAV250A to the Musical Fidelity and use the MF as a Preamp.
I told him the he didn't need the Krell as the MF has plenty of power for his room and for his speaker and subwoofer setup. He owns B&W N805 Bookshelf speakers on B&W stands and a Velodyne Subwoofer. The room is medium size and the MF give them all they can handle with plenty of reserve power left over. BUT he found the Krell at a good deal and couldn't pass it up , Yup Rabbit hole move here.
He then got a new Cartridge for his Rega Turnable which already had a very nice needle setup on it and sounded wonderful. Well the new cartridge and needle setup sucks. I forget the brand it was but it was expensive , very low output , the clarity and detail his other cartridge needle setup I felt was way better and he agreed.
So I proceeded to connect the Krell and when I turned in on, he didn't hear any difference at all. Nothing . I told him the Musical Fidelity has plenty of power and I felt it was a waste to connect the Krell amp as he would never ever be able to flex it's power.
I moved over to a CD and honestly the cd's we listened to vs the Vinyl we listened to on that new cartridge needle setup sucked in comparison. He's selling it right away.
I had to sit him down and put some brakes on his quest as I did get him to buy some room treatments, a area rug as the room was very alive. It sounds much better now and playing CD's really makes his setup shine. I felt bad for him about the cartridge and I told him to put his old one back on and forget trying to improve that area.
The amount of work that goes into listening to Vinyl, I'm out. I have 2 tables and they are back in my basement. It was fun for a few times but really with how good CD's are , even better easy Streaming music which is damn good and you don't have to do all that work just to sit down kick back with a glass of wine and listen to some good music.
Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time.
Comments
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You quitter 🤣
Which cart did the guy have? Just curious. @Keiko 's got me curious about a Dynavector, but I have an AT and finally found a Denon DL-160 to try.
What didn't you like about the vinyl stuff, Dan?
Which tables were you using? In my humble and limited experience, it's been a lot of work to get to where I am with mine, but I really like it when I'm in the mood and really have the down time to relax with it. If course the flip side tobthat argument is that listening to records makes you relax.
I disabled signatures. -
I’m very seriously considering selling off my vinyl rig. I bet it’s been 6 months since I’ve listened to it.Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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Things work out best for those who make the best of the way things work out.-John Wooden
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For me, I wish I had a third table.
I find it extremely enjoyable. But I can see how it can be also tedious abs painful.Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
You 2 boys just don't know how to have fun. Yes, vinyl is hard. If it were easy everyone would be doing it. It's the hard that makes it great.
I do agree with ya's to a point. Spinning records can be a pain, but I'm like Scott and just get so much enjoyment from it. Records have their own sound and to my old ears, nothing beats the sound of pure analog. I do enjoy streaming from my NAS and it's awesome for it's convenience. I rip a lot of records at 96k/24b and upload them to my server. It's nice having my music library at my fingertips & ripping my own records retains some of that analog goodness and also preserves my vinyl. I got albums 30/40yrs old that have only been played a handful of times. It's nice when I pull one from it's jacket to play since I have so many that are near mint.
Back in the day, before we had all this free digital software for recording, I preserved my vinyl using cassette tapes. I still have a lot of those too that I kept and still have 5 decks still in service between both of my 2ch. rigs. I kept a lot of my cassettes that I used to record radio broadcasts of KDUK, 98 Rock FM. The rock of the islands that signed off the air permanently many years ago. I was using a fairly decent Akai GX F35 deck that I still have today. I was still in the Army, stationed at Schofield Barracks. Back then DJs were still spinning records and the recorded tapes I saved from this time you can actually hear the surface noise being picked up by the stylus. Most likely they were using Stanton cartridges with Technics Broadcast Turntables. I would absolutely love to own one of them puppies. Look then up and you'll understand why.
Ahhh, the Glory Days fellas. I recall many of hours I spent by that deck along with my Sansui integrated recording shows like the King Biscuit or other local, live concerts events. Digital was barely a thought in those days and everything we listened to was pure analog. Around 1982, the Army was developing HTML coding and the internet. Top Secret stuff and highly classified. I was in the Signal Corp & had a Top Secret security clearance and still wasn't privy to what was going on. I remained a lowly Radio Teletype Operator my entire enlistment. Think, 'The Ratt Patrol.' Lol!
But, I love audio, I love this hobby, I love tweaking gear & I'm still old school. For me it's all about having fun while enjoying the tunes. Putting some work & effort into it is what makes it so enjoyable. Well, for me anyway. I ain't no #quitter.
Signed,
Karen, hot Asian chick from Hawaii.
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For me, I wish I had a third table.
I find it extremely enjoyable. But I can see how it can be also tedious abs painful.
I'd like to get a second one, but literally have no room for it. Something different just to experiment with really. If I had the space and the money to justify the purchase, I'd like to check out something like a Uturn Orbit with an external phono preamp like $199.00 Ifi. I think I have all the cartridges I'll ever need for now, but ya'll know about that bug and when it bites ya. Right now I'm trying to save up to have my Dyna retipped again with a Gyger S stylus profile along with a boron cantilever.
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Nice, Joey. Yeah @Keiko 's got me curious about that Dyna and was telling me about that upgrade. When are you going to get the retip done?
You should go for that Orbit, just to see. I'm sure you could figure out a place for it.
See all the fun you quitters are missing?
(don't think about the money you'll be saving)I disabled signatures. -
Nice, Joey. Yeah @Keiko 's got me curious about that Dyna and was telling me about that upgrade. When are you going to get the retip done?
You should go for that Orbit, just to see. I'm sure you could figure out a place for it.
See all the fun you quitters are missing?
(don't think about the money you'll be saving)
I want to get a little more use out of the synthetic black diamond first Scott. It has very low mileage on it and I kinda wish I woulda waited, saved up a little more and did the Gyger retip the first time. I was just eager to get it back and the synthetic seemed like the way to go at the time.
There's nothing wrong with it as is right now and that little synthetic black diamond performs very well, but after I heard that stylus profile on my Goldring 1012GX, I understood why Joseph had recommended it to me at the beginning.
The nude elliptical Swiss black diamond cost me 175.00 and the original diamond for that cartridge was a nude elliptical. The new 10x5 mkII have been upgraded to the Shibata. After I get my money's worth out of this one, it's going back to the groovetickler for the upgrade I want. I'll need to save for a couple months anyway before I can commit anyway, so it'll work out in the end.
Yeah, I kind of like the Orbit turtables. Made right here in the US which is a big + and selling point for me. Still, this would be something I'd need to budget and save up for and I still got my eye on that E4 stylus upgrade. I emailed Julie at DaCapo Audio the beginning part of October inquiring about their stock on 'em and they're still waiting. The carts and styli were supposed to be in back in Sept. but they told me they were having supply chain issues and would advise once they got in. Still no word bro.
BTW, did you check out the Korf headshell I linked to in the Lord's of the Ring thread? #MyPrecious lol! Lilbit pricey at 199, but doable and I think they're worth it. I saw a vid on yt where some gent was reviewing a very nice moving coil installed on a Korf along with one of the newer 1200s. Pretty sweet review and I'll try going back thru my history & try to find it for ya.
These are very nice though IMHO and another feature I like about my 1210. Being able to change carts out almost on the fly. Can't do that on a Rega. http://korfaudio.com/hs-a02 -
See all the fun you quitters are missing?
(don't think about the money you'll be spending)
Fixed it for ya, bro.
Lol!!!
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I'd be interested to know the old vs new cartridge, and phono preamp being used, since the M6i does not have an onboard phonostage. You mentioned that the new cart is low output, so hopefully his phonostage can handle it properly.He then got a new Cartridge for his Rega Turnable which already had a very nice needle setup on it and sounded wonderful. Well the new cartridge and needle setup sucks. I forget the brand it was but it was expensive , very low output , the clarity and detail his other cartridge needle setup I felt was way better and he agreed.
I'm also wondering how experienced he is with cartridge mounting and setup. Mounting Rega cartridges on Rega arms is pretty straightforward, but non-Rega carts is a bit more challenging, especially since the Rega arms don't have removable headshells. Also, Rega arms (except maybe for their most expensive offering) do not have height adjustment for setting VTA/SRA, which can come into play, depending on cartridge height.
It was very nice of you to help him out with setting up the Krell, but the fact that he couldn't do that himself again makes me wonder about his overall setup skills. Perhaps the weight of the amp is his challenge. If he has a bad back, bending over to mount and setup a cartridge might be a challenge as well."This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
Brian
One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM -
You quitter 🤣
Which cart did the guy have? Just curious. @Keiko 's got me curious about a Dynavector, but I have an AT and finally found a Denon DL-160 to try.
What didn't you like about the vinyl stuff, Dan?
Which tables were you using? In my humble and limited experience, it's been a lot of work to get to where I am with mine, but I really like it when I'm in the mood and really have the down time to relax with it. If course the flip side tobthat argument is that listening to records makes you relax.
The Table was a Rega P3 and the Cartridge was Dynavector 17 DX I think. It was this brass block looking thing. I never seen one like that. They are usually a cool looking plastic thing but this one was like someone took a block of brass and stuck a needle in it and some wiring. Looked heavy.
I have 2 Tables here. I had a really good experience at World Wide Stereo a while ago with a Phono show and It got me juiced. So I went down the rabbit hole every so slightly and dipped my toes in. BUT really after a few times messing around with it, it was fun but in the end I much prefer Discs , Streaming and .Flac files. Again just so much easier and I can control it without having to keep getting up to turn the record, clean the damn thing and all the parts you need to get it to go, I'm just over it man.
AND after all the fuss with this system I put in this weekend with the Krell amp and him expecting the Holy Grail to come out of his speakers with the new Cartridge and amp, it was a complete let down.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I'd be interested to know the old vs new cartridge, and phono preamp being used, since the M6i does not have an onboard phonostage. You mentioned that the new cart is low output, so hopefully his phonostage can handle it properly.He then got a new Cartridge for his Rega Turnable which already had a very nice needle setup on it and sounded wonderful. Well the new cartridge and needle setup sucks. I forget the brand it was but it was expensive , very low output , the clarity and detail his other cartridge needle setup I felt was way better and he agreed.
I'm also wondering how experienced he is with cartridge mounting and setup. Mounting Rega cartridges on Rega arms is pretty straightforward, but non-Rega carts is a bit more challenging, especially since the Rega arms don't have removable headshells. Also, Rega arms (except maybe for their most expensive offering) do not have height adjustment for setting VTA/SRA, which can come into play, depending on cartridge height.
It was very nice of you to help him out with setting up the Krell, but the fact that he couldn't do that himself again makes me wonder about his overall setup skills. Perhaps the weight of the amp is his challenge. If he has a bad back, bending over to mount and setup a cartridge might be a challenge as well.
The amp was pretty heavy, He couldn't lift it himself. I could but it was very awkward to carry and put on the amp stand. I don't miss big heavy power amps like that. It's badass and very manly looking but moving it sucks.
He loves this stuff but doesn't completely understand signal flow. Most people have an issue with that so I'm not judging him.
he had this step up passive box that was supposed to help out with the low output, It had a switch on the front, 4 Passthrough and I think 40 where the positions. It went in line with the Output of the table, you where supposed to place it before your Phono Preamp. It didn't do anything but actually cut the signal down. Passthrough was the only thing that worked right so I removed it and told him to return it. This is another thing that kinda pissed me off that you have to put all these things in line to get the sound out of the damn table, Screw all of that, I'm just so out on it.Dan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Sounds like he has a step-up transformer (SUT) in-line between his turntable and phono preamp. That means he must have had an LOMC cartridge. There is some science/measurements involved in matching LOMC carts with SUTs, so perhaps the proper tweaking was not done with his new acquisition.He loves this stuff but doesn't completely understand signal flow. Most people have an issue with that so I'm not judging him.
he had this step up passive box that was supposed to help out with the low output, It had a switch on the front, 4 Passthrough and I think 40 where the positions. It went in line with the Output of the table, you where supposed to place it before your Phono Preamp. It didn't do anything but actually cut the signal down. Passthrough was the only thing that worked right so I removed it and told him to return it. This is another thing that kinda pissed me off that you have to put all these things in line to get the sound out of the damn table, Screw all of that, I'm just so out on it.
"This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
"Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon -
I feel like Mantis every once in a while. (especially when things go south)
I doubt I make any more changes on the vinyl setup side.
Speakers: Polk Lsim, ATC SCM19 v2, NHT SuperzeroSpeaker Cables: DH Labs, Transparent, Wireworld, Canare, Monster: Beer budget, Bose ears -
What kinds of things do you find go south once you have the setup mostly dialed in?I disabled signatures.
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A maid cleaning the table for you and wiping the needle right off ?
Tom~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~ -
I’m looking at this Thorens… it seems so nice.
The detachable headshell seems promising too
Magico M2, JL113v2x2, EMM, ARC Ref 10 Line, ARC Ref 10 Phono, VPIx2, Lyra Etna, Airtight Opus1, Boulder, AQ Wel&Wild, SRA Scuttle Rack, BlueSound+LPS, Thorens 124DD+124SPU, Sennheiser, Metaxas R2R -
.....but really with how good CD's are.....
This is where I live....I mean, I'd really LOVE to engage in vinyl but man, just another vein in the rabbit hole to tumble down. It flat out gives me chills to ponder sometimes.....($$$ spent).....I've gone as far as having dreams (twice) that I get albums as a gift and say, "Thanks, but do you know what I have to go through now???"....lol, that's no joke
Ahhh but being a teen rocker in the 70's.....I had albums like Frank Marino, Robin Trower, Original AC/DC, ELP....so many more and how killer would it be to be able to spin those on a decent turn table set up? Who knows?? Maybe I'll dream someone will give a turn table and all I have to do is buy LP's.....Source: BRP Panasonic UB9000, CDP Emotiva ERC3 - Display: LG OLED EVO 83 C3 - Pre/Pro: Marantz 8802A - Amplification: Emotiva XPA-DR3, XPA-2 x 2, XPA-6, Speakers, Mains/2ch-Focal Kanta No2's, C-LSiM706, S-702F/X, RS-RTiA9's, WS-RTiA9's, FH-RTiA3's, Subs - Epik Empire x 2
Cables: AudioQuest McKenzie XLR's/CDP/Amp, Carbon 48/BRP, Forest 48/Display, 2 channel speaker cable: Furutech FS Alpha 36 12AWG PCOCC Single Crystal (Douglas Connection)
EXPERIENCE: next to nothing, but I sure enjoy audio and video MY OPINION OF THIS HOBBY: I may not be a smart man, but I know what quicksand is.
When I was young, I was Superman but now that old age has gotten the best of me I'm only Batman -
It's amazing how good a turntable can sound once you upgrade the vinyl to Mofi, the cartridge, preamp, cables, arm, headshell, plinth, belt, motor, platter and power supply... but I love it nonetheless! 😆Sources: Technics SL1200MKII | SME3009 Tonearm | Monster Alpha 1 MC cartridge | Oppo UDP203 disk player | Nikko NT-790 analog tuner | Musical Fidelity Trivista 21 DAC | Preamp: Threshold SL-10 | Amplifier: Threshold Stasis 2 | Speakers: Snell Acoustics C/V | Kimber 12-TC bi wire speakers | Analysis plus Oval 1 preamp to amp | Wireworld Eclipse 7 DAC to Preamp | Wireworld eclipse digital IC Oppo to DAC | Audioquest Quartz tuner to preamp |
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It's amazing how good a turntable can sound once you upgrade the vinyl to Mofi, the cartridge, preamp, cables, arm, headshell, plinth, belt, motor, platter and power supply... but I love it nonetheless! 😆
You forgot an RCM, isolation platform, center weight and outer ring clamp.The Gear... Carver "Statement" Mono-blocks, Mcintosh C2300 Arcam AVR20, Oppo UDP-203 4K Blu-ray player, Sony XBR70x850B 4k, Polk Audio Legend L800 with height modules, L400 Center Channel Polk audio AB800 "in-wall" surrounds. Marantz MM7025 stereo amp. Simaudio Moon 680d DSD
“When once a Republic is corrupted, there is no possibility of remedying any of the growing evils but by removing the corruption and restoring its lost principles; every other correction is either useless or a new evil.”— Thomas Jefferson -
