Wayne's Audio Outer Ring & Clamp

Keiko

I recently acquired the Wayne's Audio outer ring and clamp for my Technics SL-1210M5G and was impressed by the improvement. Mostly talking about the outer ring, but the clamp is an awesome piece as well. I've been using Joe's, Vulcan Death Grip Clamp for several years now, but the one I got from WA is very nice. It doubles as a clamp and has some heft to it at 2lbs.

Anyway, it's the outer ring I think that makes the most remarkable difference and it isn't subtle either. I immediately noticed better, tighter bass, more air between the instruments which produced a bigger & better sound stage and the sound is much more focused.

Anyone else own & use an outer ring on your table and have similar results? They're a bit pricey, but worth every penny IMHO. Both of these pieces are quite weighty, but haven't affected the speed on my Technics. It rock solid still at 33.3rpm.

I'll post some actual images later. Keiko's been having some lower back issues for the past couple weeks and I just got the 2023 remaster of Aja that I still haven't spun yet. Regardless of this back ache I wanna spin this album asap and will take the opportunity then to take some pics.

For now here is the link from Wayne's Audio for anyone interested.

https://www.waynesaudio.com/shop

Cheers!

tratliff

I have both a clamp and weight for my TT. I mostly use the weight but get the clamp out on problem records. Like you said that outer ring is pricy. I don’t have one and always wondered how it would impact playback.

Toolfan66

What outer ring did you get?

stangman67

I’ve got a Wayne’s outer ring for my VPI and I use the VPI center clamp. No complaints! Well worth it

bcwsrt

Toolfan66 wrote: »

What outer ring did you get?

Looks like this is the Technics-specific one: https://www.waynesaudio.com/product-page/universal-turntable-periphery-outer-ring-clamp-ss-t

I'm not sure why they all have the term "universal" in their name.

@Keiko, can you still close the dust cover with it on?

Keiko

bcwsrt wrote: »

Toolfan66 wrote: »

What outer ring did you get?

Looks like this is the Technics-specific one: https://www.waynesaudio.com/product-page/universal-turntable-periphery-outer-ring-clamp-ss-t

I'm not sure why they all have the term "universal" in their name.

@Keiko, can you still close the dust cover with it on?

That's the one.

@Brian, no sir. You'll need to remove the dust cover to allow for clearance. At first I thought I would have to remove all the hardware from the back of my table and convert it back to stock, but that wasn't the case fortunately. All I have to do is lift the hinge out from the back bracket. When I'm done spinning I simply slide the dust cover back into place.

I bought the hinge kit for my 1210 from Kevin/kabusa several years ago when I first bought this table and had forgotten how I had installed it. Turned out to be easy and I didn't have to remove any of the hardware I previously installed. Like I said, just lift the hinge out from the bracket and when you're done, slip the cover back into place.

The ring will also come with a plastic guide plate for centering it onto the record. It has an etched marking on it that looks like a protractor alignment tool for a cartridge, so don't be confused by it. You place the ring between four nubs on the alignment guide plate. The guide has a hole that you fit onto the spindle and once you have it in place you lift it off and you're ready to Rock n Roll.

If you have any dished records this ring will fix that. I only have a few and have more that have a slight warp. The outer ring flattens them all out so your stylus will track the grooves better. When I buy new records nowadays, I do not tolerate anything that has even the slightest warp. We're paying good money for our records today and I expect a good product. No warps, no clicks and no pops. I want the best possible. I had to send 3 copies of Pink Floyd's, MLoR back due to these issues before I finally got an acceptable copy. Even on completely flat records tho, this ring still works it's magic and makes my records sound really, really good.

msg

Nice, Mike!
(why does everyone keep calling you Mike? I thought you were a hot Asian chick like in your avatar. Is that short for Michelle?)

That's awesome you got one of Wayne's ring and clamp sets. I love mine. It's hands down one of my favorite turntable accessories.

I've been meaning to record some with and without playback using Audacity right off my phono preamp.

Before the ring and clamp, my vinyl playback was pretty weak. Seemed kinda smeary, no real definition. Flat presentation, no real imaging aside from a stereo center. Streaming services easily beat my vinyl setup for quality and clarity. It was still fun, though.

After the ring and clamp, the presentation is better separated and more concise. The players have their places on the sound stage now, whereas before it's was a bit of a glomming together with a narrowish center image.

And then, like you said, the warps. Man, easily about 1/4 of all new records I bought for a while were warped! Some were severe. It was driving me nuts. That was when I decided not to take anymore chances on stuff unless they were favorites or something special. Now, I don't have to worry about warps anymore.

Here's my setup from a post @nooshinjohn made a while back when checking to see if anyone was interested in trying to find someone to manufacture rings. No one seemed to know about Wayne at that time. I don't know how long he's been making these. I remember looking years prior, and I only found one guy in Canada who stopped making them and closed up shop, and another guy overseas who was trying to sell a design. After John's thread was up for a while, I was checking back, and did a search just on a whim, and found Wayne's store. I thought for sure my Technics would be left out, but no! As you found as well, there's a set for us!

bcwsrt

Dang you guys. Don't you realize I only have just so much $$$?

So, no concerns about the extra weight? I read somewhere Technics only recommends an additional 1 kg. The clamp and the ring is like 2x that, right?

msg

listen here, milquetoast. you did accounting and stuff, so make up some numbers and put some squiggly S symbols in there, and you're all set!

I was concerned with the weight as well, B, but I talked to Kevin at KAB and he basically told me to stop being a milquetoast, and shared the info below. I think he also said to keep the spindle lubed periodically (the spindle on the turntable)

With ring clamps, you want to be sure your cartridge suspension is tall enough to ensure that the bottom of the cartridge does not touch the clamp in the lead in groove.

As for the added weight, I suppose any time you double the weight on a bearing point, you’re going to increase the wear on the bearing surface. How that translates into thrust plate life, I cannot say. The only scientific way would be to take a photo of the thrust plate now, and then some time after continuous use of the added weights and see what it looks like.

We know the stock platter weight will wear the plate over time.

We also know that the new G model platter weighs something like 8 pounds.

I think it will be fine. I might watch the start up time as the added weight is going to slow that some.

You might want to give the platter a push before hitting the start button to take some of that load inertia off of the electronics.

I just looked up the specs on the SS-T ring and WS-2 clamp to confirm. Those are the models I went with, shown in the photo above. Each is about 990g, or about 2lbs each, like @Keiko was saying re: the center clamp/weight.

bcwsrt wrote: »

I read somewhere Technics only recommends an additional 1 kg. The clamp and the ring is like 2x that, right?

HWAT?!? 1Kg?!?

I haven't seen anything on what Technics recommends, but I'd like to if there's a doc out there speccing something. I didn't look into it after I talked to Kevin.

The only thing I did was adjust the brake on my turntable a little. The additional weight (or mass for @mhardy6647) makes the platter spin a little longer after turning it off, so I increased the brake slightly. I like to let mine spin down a little and not a stark stop, though its capable of it. I haven't had to give it any help spinning up.

bcwsrt

Well, I haven’t seen anything definitive on the 1 kg, or if I have it’s not what I was referring to. Was just a dude’s comment on the Steve Hoffman forums that I ran across. (Geez, I hope that doesn’t make me sound like @ChrisD06). I suppose I need to get my 1210G’s manual out again to see what it says. I get the concept of both these items, I just don’t wanna do more harm than good.

So, how the heck do ya adjust the brake?

BTW, that photo looks sick! 👍

Keiko

milquetoast-LMBO! And Scott, I am a hot Asian chick. Check out my moniker. This is the internet and you can be anyone you wanna be. Just ask that Barbee, nooshinjohn. He keeps calling me Karen, I don't know why. Perhaps he can't pronounce my name, "Keiko."

"Keiko" in Japanese actually stands for "practice" and I need all of that I can get.

Streaming beat your vinyl? WoW! Interesting. My vinyl playback always sounded best to my ears, that and SACDs and now with the ring it's only gotten better. Perhaps it's the cartridge? I know that Denon cart is quite capable though. What are you using for a phono stage? It's all subjective anyway. So as long as you enjoy it, that's all that matters. Try spinning some Steely Dan. Lol!

That's solid advice from Kevin and he knows Technics turntables. I'm probably past due for a lube job on my spindle and will git-er-done asap. I think it might be a good idea also to give the platter a little push when using these clamps to take some of the stress off the motor at a cold stop. Once it gets going the inertia should alleviate the stress from the added weight. Just keeping that spindle bearing good and lubed and it shouldn't be a problem.

@Brian, you adjust the brake by lifting the platter off. You should see the adjustments on the right side. I just left mine alone. The platter comes to a slow stop, but doesn't take long to come to a complete stop.

Aloha,

Keiko, Karen, Michelle... err, Mike

stangman67

@msg Scott was the one that got me looking at Wayne’s rings in the first place! Not a cheap hunk of metal but his stuff is very very well made, I love the centering device it comes with so there’s no question the clamp is perfectly centered to the spindle

Gardenstater

Would this ring work on a VPI turntable? Asking for a friend. Literally

stangman67

Gardenstater wrote: »

Would this ring work on a VPI turntable? Asking for a friend. Literally

I have his Universal SS-2 on my VPI Prime Sig. Fits great!

https://www.waynesaudio.com/product-page/universal-turntable-outer-ring-ss-2

Keiko

Gardenstater wrote: »

Would this ring work on a VPI turntable? Asking for a friend. Literally

@George, yes they do. I think most of these outer rings are universal, with some exceptions. Check out my link in the OP. If you have any questions there's contact information at the bottom of the page. I talked to Wayne and he's a really nice guy. He will address any questions you have.

Aloha,

M

msg

bcwsrt wrote: »

Well, I haven’t seen anything definitive on the 1 kg, or if I have it’s not what I was referring to. Was just a dude’s comment on the Steve Hoffman forums that I ran across. (Geez, I hope that doesn’t make me sound like @ChrisD06). I suppose I need to get my 1210G’s manual out again to see what it says. I get the concept of both these items, I just don’t wanna do more harm than good.

So, how the heck do ya adjust the brake?

BTW, that photo looks sick! 👍

@bcwsrt - Brian, I got a good laugh at myself this morning. When I first saw your note about the 1Kg, I immediately started imagining olympic weight plates, and thought what?!? Where the heck did Brian find that spec?!? Later, I noticed that I hadn't really done the math, and, well as you know, 900g is... well, pretty much 1kg lol

So your concern about the weight is valid. It was my first thought as well. Frankly, after the casual Q&A with Kevin and Wayne, I really didn't think too much on it from there after, but I'm sure it is possible that some additional bearing wear is happening. Doesn't seem like much to worry about though? Time will tell, I guess. I have a feeling it'll outlast me, anyway.

For what it's worth, playing records is a lot more enjoyable for me with the ring and clamp, so it's a potential lifespan tradeoff I was willing to make, I guess. I wouldn't trade the ring/clamp set for anything now. It's one of the best sound and use accessories I've bought for playing records, not to mention one of my favorite pieces of audio gear in general. One of those things that aesthetically pleasing as well as practical, and I love the mechanics behind its use.

I love the idea that I'm getting full record-to-platter coupling now. Before, I was really only getting it near the spindle, and the rest of the record wasn't really properly stabilized. Free-floating, in a sense. The record is so much better coupled and stabilized now, so there's significantly less micro-sloppiness at the groove-stylus interface now, if you think about it now that the record is held firmly against the platter.

Remember the old soup can telephone thing we'd do as kids? Remember when the string was a little slack, you couldn't really hear as well, but cinching up the slack in the string and the phone would work better? Just an example that came to mind. I think that's part of the idea with the rings and clamps. With stabilization and close coupling, the record has "significantly reduced" waste bleed-off to air - acting as a micro-speaker, if you think about it, with equal and opposite reaction. You can actually hear it at the record if you turn the volume down with the record still playing. So the groove-stylus interface is cleaner, tighter, and more accurate, which translates to reduced signal generation slop in the cartridge. At the speakers, in my setup, this made the presentation cleaner and more accurate, which resulted in cleaning up that smeary, flat, compressed stereo image I was experiencing.

I'm going to try another test I just thought of. I'll play a record without the ring and clamp, and turn the volume all the way down and listen at the cartridge. Then I'll put the ring and clamp back on and listen again. I'm actually curious now as to whether what I'm able to hear without amplification is reduced at all after coupling. In theory, I think it should be if the record can't vibrate.

This is such a small thing, but it's these sorts of refinements that get us those micro-improvements we hear in nuanced enhancements of the stereo presentation.

Keiko

I agree with ya 110% Scott. It's all physics and mechanically speaking the ring simply reduces micro vibrations by flattening the record and coupling it to the platter.

When I first got my 1210, I changed the stock rubber mat for a Herbie's Way Excellent. Such a corny name for a turntable mat, but it is good and there's absolutely nothing wrong with the Technics stock rubber mat either. I had just heard how good the Herbie's were and wanted to try it out. The Herbie's is also more aesthetically pleasing, but as good as it is, I was still getting ringing from the platter.

You guys know I like to rip vinyl to store on my NAS ( Thanks @tophatjohnny ) and sometimes it would actually pickup ambient noise in my room. More specifically, if any of our Pomeranian's would start to yap, the cartridge would pick it up and you could hear it in the digital recording.

I remedied this little problem with one of Kevin's/kabusa Polymats. I place that first onto the platter and then the Herbie's over the Polymat. The platter is dead quiet now, solving that problem. And thanks to the design of all the 12xx turntables for the ability to adjust the VTA. I like it and having that ability is one of my favorite features with these tables. They're well designed and rock solid. I agree with you Scott, these tables will outlast us.

I know a lot of people in the vinyl community loathe direct drive turntables and I just don't understand that. They say, Oh! The direct drive motors are noisy and that transfers into the record yada, yada. Belt drives are better because (insert yada, yada, yada here). In my opinion/experience, motor noise from a direct drive turntable has never been an issue for me. In fact, I like the Technics dd because of their stable speed. With belt driven tables this can become problematic sometimes. This I know from experience with a Pioneer belt driven table I once had. IIRC, there are separate units that can be had for bd tables that electronically compensate for speed issues. With a 1210 or any 12xx series, this is never a problem. Pretty much plug & play straight out of the box once you level the table and setup the cartridge & tonearm.

Anyway, I'm off topic here and apologize for the rant. I really like the Wayne's outer ring & clamp and really like my 1210 and the direct drive. For those that like their belt drives, it's all good. I do like the looks on some of those bad boys like the VPI and others where the motor is separate from the plinth. I also know that some of those tables can get into the tens of thousands also. Regardless, my take will always be the same no matter what kind of equipment someone uses. If they like it and if it brings them joy, then that's all that matters.

Have a great weekend fellas and thanks for the discussion. All y'all are fellow travelers with me in the journey. Now where's Jesse, @F1Nut? I really thought hell froze over when I heard that he got into vinyl. How extraordinary?!!! Lol!

Peace guys, gotta run!

Michelle Karen

msg

Haha, apologizing for ranting on your own thread? Preposterous, and great info!

I completely forgot about the mat material. I also have one of Kevin's platter/mat sandwiches. Before Technics brought back the 1200, the Technics hard rubber mats went out of stock. They're supposedly well regarded.

My table arrived with the thick mat, but given its age, it had hardened and cracked. I replaced it with the aluminum disc and pvc substrate sandwich that Kevin had produced, and topped it with a thin Fluance silicone mat. I'm now wondering whether I should try the Technics mat now that they're available again. Sort of a smooth, hard rubber, flexible but not squishy?

So many different mat materials out there. Some say no mat at all, and then others like leather!

And yes, where the heck is Jesse...

pitdogg2

And yes, where the heck is Jesse...

It must be vinyl cleaning night. He's a buffing and polishing his......"vinyl" 😁😁

msg

Lol and lubing his spindle

stangman67

No mat gang here. Straight on the aluminum platter!

Keiko

Hey Scott, it's our party and I'll rant if I want too. Lol!

I've heard the Funk Firm Achromat is well regarded too. I had thought about trying one of those inexpensive acrylic mats, but afterwards thought against it because of the Vulcan Death Grip Clamp I got from Joe. Afraid it would crack it. The set up I have now is dead quiet, so I can't justify spending more on something else when it's no longer broke. Kevin's Polymat really solved the ringing problem I had with my Technics.

Something I'd really like to try is the Korf ceramic headshell. Not sure if you guys have seen these yet, but they are a piece of art IMHO. Trying to save up a little now for some upgrades and this is on the list. First priority is getting the Dynavector 10x5 retipped with a Gyger II stylus with an upgraded boron cantilever.

I had it retipped awhile back after I got careless and destroyed it. Joseph Long, aka groovetickler did the work for me. He was able to repair the stock aluminum cantilever, but the stylus was too far gone and needed to be replaced. I'm on a budget, but wanted at least a nude elliptical diamond, not a bonded shank. Joseph recommended a Swiss made synthetic black diamond. I went with that option because I know these are pretty decent. I bought an Analogis black diamond when I did the RigB mod on the AT91 cartridge awhile back. Y'all might recall my thread on that. I stand by that mod and that little cartridge sings.

Anyway, here's the Korf if ya wanna check it out.

http://korfaudio.com/hs-a02

Here, you can see the damage I did to my 10x5 in the link below. I had it stored inside the spare cartridge slot on the 1210. The Sumiko headshell I have it install on is a bit tall and it got clipped on the edge of the dome area on the dust cover. I kinda felt sick when I noticed what had happened, but when Joseph had informed me the stylus was worn and it was time for a retip anyway, that softened the blow after the fact. The synthetic diamond sounds fine, but now that I have a little more of an understanding of stylus types and shapes, I'd really like to have a Gyger II stylus with an upgraded cantilever.

The new 10x5 mkII comes with a Shibata stylus and go for $800.00. The retip I'm considering is half that and I'll have better cartridge than the new offering. In theory anyway.

Try not to cry when you see this. I almost did when I noticed what had happened. Lol!

https://instagram.com/p/CdGVH6buh33/embed/

oWch!

msg

stangman67 wrote: »

No mat gang here. Straight on the aluminum platter!

Hey Zach, nice. So, I've always wondered about this, and the concern for vinyl against a hard surface, metal or otherwise.

Did you have any concerns here for hardness damage and/or stray debris getting mashed into your records?

I was thinking especially so with additional weight of an edge ring and a center weight/clamp? Curious what your thoughts are here, and also whether you ever ran this table with a mat and if there are noticeable differences without.

I figure vinyl is pretty hard and the platter is machined flat and smooth, so...

stangman67

msg wrote: »

stangman67 wrote: »

No mat gang here. Straight on the aluminum platter!

Hey Zach, nice. So, I've always wondered about this, and the concern for vinyl against a hard surface, metal or otherwise.

Did you have any concerns here for hardness damage and/or stray debris getting mashed into your records?

I was thinking especially so with additional weight of an edge ring and a center weight/clamp? Curious what your thoughts are here, and also whether you ever ran this table with a mat and if there are noticeable differences without.

I figure vinyl is pretty hard and the platter is machined flat and smooth, so...

I don't have any concerns of hurtning the vinyl nor have I expereinced any damage. Lots of recommendations out there to run sans mat, at least when it comes to VPI's offerings. I have a mat but have personally never run it so really cannot comment on sonic differences with and without the mat. When it comes to this sort of stuff I am more of a follower, I listen to people with much better ears than my own.

F1nut

My VPI came with a felt mat, which seemed pretty cheesy to me and besides, felt sheds. I didn't like the idea of placing my records directly on the aluminum platter, just defies logic to me, so I did some research with no absolute results found, so I bought a number of different mats. Out of those I found a 2mm thick cork mat to work the best. The only issue was I didn't like the color of natural cork, so I dyed it black and sealed it with mist coats of lacquer.

No experience with outer rings.

Keiko

F1nut wrote: »

No experience with outer rings.

Just something for you to consider Jesse. Most of the tweaks I've made on my rig have been subtle. The exceptions being tubes buffers and the outer ring.

Sorry fellas for not posting any images yet. My back is still healing. Hang tight! They are a coming.

bcwsrt

@msg, I guess being an accountant, the math comes natural. I was wonderin' why you was actin' sooo surprised! LOL

Appreciate the thread and all the comments. Based on what you guys are saying, I’ll probably have to try a clamp and a ring at some point. Right now, just enjoying the results from my recent Degritter purchase.

I don't think I could get by without some kind of mat. My VTA is set at zero with the stock Technics rubber mat and my Ortofon cartridge. Too skeered I'd scratch something up, anyway.

Get that back healed up, @Keiko. I'm looking forward to your pics and any other comments after listening to your "Aja" LP.

And, hey, @msg again, don't forget to report back on your with/without ring experiment, good or bad. Well, don't worry. I won't let you forget.

Keiko

Thanks Brian and I'm trying, fellas. Today was not a good day and I was flat on my back for the most part of it. I followup again with the pain & spine specialist on Monday. Hopefully I won't be spending Thanksgiving like this.

Keiko

OK fellas, decided to get off my okole and spin Aja today. Spinning right now as a matter of fact and this remaster sounds very nice. More on that later in my other thread.

Took some shots of the 1210 w/the ring & clamp in place. Can't believe how much dust this camera picks up and I just dusted around the table a couple days ago. Cell phone cam isn't the greatest either, but here ya go.

Keiko

The ring is a bit of a finger print magnet as y'all can plainly see, but it's really not that noticeable. Only thru the lens of this crappy cell phone cam.

bcwsrt

Got a ring and clamp sooner than I anticipated. I was happy to find that, while I can’t close the dust cover, I do have enough clearance to leave it open and installed while spinning a record. Does it pick up any vibrations that way? Not sure yet …

Didn’t get to do any serious listening yet, but not having had even just a clamp before, it doesn’t really seem all that tedious to install or to remove the two pieces at the end of a side, like I thought it might be. The alignment tool for the ring helps with removal, also, and then you’re ready to go again after you flip the record over.