cable burn in => unidirectional?

lonwa

Question for all of you cable freaks out there.

I was told by a friend that all cables are bi-directional when new, but after you burn them in for over 100 hours, the cables become uni-directional? Is this true?

I would presume to say no, since there is nothing to stop the electrons from flowing in the opposite direction if you reversed the cable. Or is he just saying that after the burn in process, the electronis have found the best path through the cable in that direction, and that its now the most efficient means of traversing the cable?


Any ideas on this one.

Thanks

Lonwa

F1nut

What cables are you talking about? There are some high-end cables that are directional only, be they new or burned in. Will they work if one connects them in the opposite direction? Yes, but they don't sound as good. Then there are cables were it doesn't seem to matter.

lonwa

The interconnects are Nordost Solar Wind (flat cables - RCA->RCA), and the speaker wires are tributaries with banana plugs.

My friend was refering to the speaker cables, but also reminded me about the interconnects (they have an arrow on one RCA end which must plug into the AMP side).

I have never heard of a unidirectional cable (by design). How does that work?

Thanks

Lonwa

dorokusai

A pair of Solar Winds are in the Polk Cable Swap Program

The directional issue is a manufacturer supported effort. It simply means they subscribe to a particular kind of application or burn-in theory. MIT and Audioquest are examples of this as well. I believe in burn-in, but can't say the unidirectional theory means anything to me.

I leave certain things up to the cable maker, if they support it, and I like the cables, then whatever. They are far more involved with the construction and development of their product than I am.

lonwa

What have your impressions been on the solar winds?

This is my first time with a flat style interconnect. Supposed to be the "Next Best thing."

F1nut

Here are the reviews,

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=15779

gidrah

Most of the times, the directionality of a cable is dictated by the shielding and/or drain leg. These are usually connected to the - at the source end and left disconnected on the other end.

As to how this would effect burn-in I can't say other than to assume that it would change the dielectric properties around this shielding or leg.

ezc

There are lots of answers to your question. I use my cables in one direction only. I was told by a very sharp (old timer) 2 ch. audiophile that cable should be used in one direction. If there is no arrows on the cable look at the printing how you read the printing is the flow of the cable. If you build cables you will also want to make sure the current flow is in the same direction of the printing on the cable. I have looked at different cables & so far all the premade cables that have printing on the cable flow is in the same direction printing. May not be a exact answer but just what I beleive & what I do.

pjdami

That's a good tip ezc. All of the wires I just checked with the arrows on them are like you describe in the direction that you read the print.

Cool. This solves the mystery of the Kimber Hero direction for me now. I changed them around (had them backwards) but not sure if I hear any difference but that's one less gremlin in my head saying something.

ezc

Paul,
Thats the reason I enjoy av alot! Always being able to learn somthing new! I never knew there was a way to figure out which way to install a cable that had no directional markers, unitl I was taught. How easy the answer was always there with the print. I guess nothing beats experience!

TechChallenged

Cable burn in makes my head hurt. IMHO cable burn in defies physics. If there was any validity to this theory, wouldn't high tech military equipment have specifications or recommendations for handling this anomaly? I have worked on some very high tech and sensitive crap over the years and never once was there any emphasis on the behavior of copper, gold, silver or any other special metals, regarding burn in.

Please, somebody set me straight on this theory.

gidrah

It has less to do with the conductor and more to do with the covering. From what I can tell, the military does have very high standards from their suppliers in regards to what sleaves their cables and to what purpose. To me, this would be encompensant.

PolkThug

I am very skeptical on this one. For this to be true, the wire, or the dielectric around the wires would have to physically change after x amount of hours of play.

So, are there any microsope photos of a speaker wire before and after break-in?

...And this so-called change is supposed to make music sound better??? I smell marketing.

TechChallenged

Originally posted by gidrah
It has less to do with the conductor and more to do with the covering. From what I can tell, the military does have very high standards from their suppliers in regards to what sleaves their cables and to what purpose. To me, this would be encompensant.

MIL-C-17 Coaxial cable, RG cable
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MIL-S-83519 Solder sleeves


Nope. I can find nothing encompensant to wire direction.

bknauss

There is no such thing as cable direction, wire direction, etc etc etc. Do you think the electrical guys building amps have to remember which end of the wire goes where? And if so, what about the circuits where electricity goes in both directions?

Wire directionality is a marketing thing. This is why marketing people are so hated.

BTW, I've got my BSEE and never heard "boo" about wires being directional. I think I wouldn't have been able to get my degree if I had asked about it

dorokusai

The marketing aspect concerning directionality was mentioned previously.

ezc

My thaught! If wire direction makes no difference why does the manufactures put directional arrows? I have never hooked up a wire with arrows backwards & am not sure what would happen. Im sure there must be a reason for the arrows. As far as burn in yes I can hear a definate difference after burn in. My sigma ic fresh (brand new) installed on my system with the arrown in the correct direction sounded tight, top end wasnt there, & sound stage was narrow. Let it run for a day & it started to open up. Pulked the ic's & had a friend put them on a cooker for 4 days. Wow what a difference opened up , top end was very clean, sound stage deepened & got wider. Much easier to listen too. The ic are installed with the arrows in the correct direction, & was burned in the same way. It may be a myth to some but I feel it does make a difference. I wouldnt want to damage a $1500 pair of IC's just beacuse I thaught I knew more than the cable designers.

dcarlson

Burn In Here's a what George Cardas says. My Cardas Cross needs to settle every time I overly disturb it.

TechChallenged

Audioholic article. Worth a read.

http://www.audioholics.com/techtips/audioprinciples/interconnects/Audio-Cable-Vendor.html

PolkThug

I found the George Cardas read informative, yet humorous at times.

"Many musicians leave their instruments in front of a stereo that is playing to get them to warm up." :rolleyes:



"A note of caution. Moving a cable will, to some degree, traumatize it." -I think I need to send my cables to therapy.

Regards,
PolkThug

jdhdiggs

I won't tuch the burn in topic, but for directional: It's an AC circuit so the current flows both directions anyway. Gidrah's ground/drain would be the only thing that might make a difference, beyond that...

Frank Z

TC,
Sent ya a PM.

dcarlson

This whole cable issue has been argued over and over and over.

As for the traumatizing of a cable, the Cross powercord is a great example of where this applies. Before I bought it, I coiled it up, return to the store with it only to end up buying it. When I returned home and plugged it in, it totally changed. It took a good week for it to settle.

BTW, I think it takes a certain level of equipment to hear certain changes to the full effect.

lonwa

Wow, I didn't know what I was starting with this thread.

Well I have, since reading up on several other websites, purchased all the equipement to make my own component video cables, interconnects, and power cables. I am going the crimp path (not solder as I am not skilled enough, and most people believe the crimp connection is better), plus I just love doing this stuff. DIY is really fun.

I have also been thinking about learning how to ride a motorcycle. The part that always holds me back is how dangerous people drive in Los Angeles.


Lonwa

dcarlson

Originally posted by lonwa
Wow, I didn't know what I was starting with this thread.

Well I have, since reading up on several other websites, purchased all the equipement to make my own component video cables, interconnects, and power cables. I am going the crimp path (not solder as I am not skilled enough, and most people believe the crimp connection is better), plus I just love doing this stuff. DIY is really fun.

I have also been thinking about learning how to ride a motorcycle. The part that always holds me back is how dangerous people drive in Los Angeles.


Lonwa

No worries. Cables... it's a polarizing topic that's for sure.

F1nut

Maybe it doesn't make sense, maybe it shouldn't happen, maybe it is snake oil, BUT I know what I hear and no one will ever convince me that burn-in doesn't happen. I've heard it myself too many times, so to those that doubt it I say don't knock it if you haven't tried it with your own audio gear and I'm not talking about Rat Shack wire. As far as the direction, I go by what the cable maker says and if they say it's only suppose to be connected a certain way, so be it.


"Cables... it's a polarizing topic that's for sure."

Great line..:D

Frank Z

Originally posted by F1nut
and I'm not talking about Rat Shack wire.

Rat Shack wire doesn't "burn-in"?

PolkThug

I'm 'burning in' the cable swap Audioquests right now with some AC/DC. I'm sure the UPS man 'traumatized' them, but hopefully some good ole rock n roll can set them straight again.

Hmmm, if I move them from my 2 channel rig to my HT rig, do I have to burn them in again?

Hbomb! Burdette! What day you coming over for testing! Keg is cold and flowin...

Regards,
PolkThug

PolkThug

Originally posted by Frank Z
Rat Shack wire doesn't "burn-in"?

They probably have a better quality plastic coating than the 'hi-end' wires, that doesn't melt when you play music through them.

Frank Z

Must have them "Arrows" on the inside.

gidrah

Originally posted by TechChallenged
Cable burn in makes my head hurt. IMHO cable burn in defies physics. If there was any validity to this theory, wouldn't high tech military equipment have specifications or recommendations for handling this anomaly?

Please, somebody set me straight on this theory.

I'm sorry to confuse or anger you. I was only giving you a reply to your initial question. As far as directionality, that is different.

Take an aspirin.