Time to let the Dynaco PAS4 preamp go

muncybob

This unit is sweet when it is working right, but I have had this in the shop 3 times in the last 4 years and apparently the problem cannot be be identified or fixed for long term use. Each time it has been looked at it is returned "fixed" (each time they did something different) but after some time the problem occurs again(a "static" sound and distortion).

I'm considering selling it "as is" including several pairs of tubes(maybe somebody can figure it out) and along with my Parasound HCA1500 and picking up a Rogue Audio Cronus Tube Amplifier. I want to stay with the tube sound and reviews for this seem decent although I've never actually heard one. Open to other suggestions in the under $2k range, must have phono stage.

muncybob

So, nobody has any experience with Rogue Audio amps?

mhardy6647

Well, I don't know anything aboutthem. I read good things about them, though.

I am mostly wondering about what could be up with the PAS-4. I haven't ever encountered a PAS-4 (that was a Panor-era "Dynaco" product, wasn't it?), but the PAS-2 and 3 are pretty darned simple. Not much to go wrong with them - and they shouldn't eat tubes.
Static & distortion randomly sounds like a connection (e.g., pins in a socket), dirty switch or pot, PCB trace crack, or a cold solder joint -- that sort of thing. Is the P/S up to snuff? Old carbon comp resistors, of course, can get noisy, but the PAS-4 might not even have any carbon comp resistors in it(?).

EDIT: ooh. looky.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/dynaco-pas4.700923/#post-9393758
(heh -- you're part of that thread, too! )

bcwsrt

What kind of feedback are you looking for on the Rogue?

CottageChz

Someone was selling a Rogue amp on the marketplace here recently. Send them a PM maybe!

Gerres26

I have no experience with the Cronus, but ran the Rogue ST100 power amp for a while. Seemed to be much more powerful than the 100wpc spec would have you believe. Great spacious tube sound without getting too “syrupy”. Excellent bass with good highs and mids as well. Hard to beat under $2k…only sold mine because my AVA amp was a better match with my Joule pre.

muncybob

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Well, I don't know anything aboutthem. I read good things about them, though.

I am mostly wondering about what could be up with the PAS-4. I haven't ever encountered a PAS-4 (that was a Panor-era "Dynaco" product, wasn't it?), but the PAS-2 and 3 are pretty darned simple. Not much to go wrong with them - and they shouldn't eat tubes.
Static & distortion randomly sounds like a connection (e.g., pins in a socket), dirty switch or pot, PCB trace crack, or a cold solder joint -- that sort of thing. Is the P/S up to snuff? Old carbon comp resistors, of course, can get noisy, but the PAS-4 might not even have any carbon comp resistors in it(?).

EDIT: ooh. looky.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/dynaco-pas4.700923/#post-9393758
(heh -- you're part of that thread, too! )

Yea, that was back when I first picked up the amp. It sounded great for a while, but lately it's giving me some grief. 2 different techs have looked at it(the 2nd guy had nothing good to say about the previous work that was done). Electronics is not my forte so I've relied on what I'm told. There was a time when the right channel would cut out and tech#2 corrected that by working on the balance switch, so I was hopeful he would be the man for the job. It seems every time it has been worked on it's fine for a few months and then trouble. As much as I want to love this amp, I'm tiring of driving to the shop(1.5 hours), being w/o tunes for a few weeks and shortly afterwards having problems.

muncybob

bcwsrt wrote: »

What kind of feedback are you looking for on the Rogue?

Well, I think their Cronus amps are sexy but don't know anything other than the reviews I've read. I would rather hear from people that have used their amps in their personal systems.

I guess I'm asking are the amps a good match with the SDA 2Bs, will the integrated phono stages not leave me wishing I had gone separates and are they reliable over the long term?

bcwsrt

I have a CM3. I was fortunate enough to have a friend (who’s on here, too, actually @charley96) who let me borrow his low-hour CM1 last fall when I started getting back into 2-channel listening. I will try not to ramble, but I was never quite happy with the sound of my RTA 15TLs. Always seems too bright and edgy and not much bass extension. Updated tweeters to RDO-198s. Nope, still the same. Borrowed the CM1, and within a couple hours I’m taking notes because I can’t believe what I’m hearing over my solid state Denon 1025-RA reciever. Smooth, clear top-end, very revealing vocals and piano and tight, well-controlled and punchy bass.

Now that is all, or primarily all, going from solid state to tubes, I know. But, again, to make a long story short, I started researching Rogue Audio because I knew zero about them. At the time, I really could not find any bad reviews, at least on the Cronus Magnum. In fact, most were carrying on about the sound AND the customer service.

So, I reached out to them directly with an inquiry about the nearest dealer to me, which ended up only being about 75 miles away. Had a very personable back-and-forth in a few emails emails with their CS rep, Nick, just about the dealer and some other background info on the amp, which got me feeling good about the company and backed up what I had read.

During my visit to the dealer, who also sells several other tube amp brands, he said he “wasn’t going to tell me not to” get a CM3. Said they are great products and they never come back for service. While I was there he called and actually talked to Nick about availability (with me standing right next to him in full transparency) and as it turned out, the CM3 had just been reviewed in that month’s Absolute Sound magazine. So, Rogue had built an inventory in anticipation of increased sales and in less than a week, I went back to pick up my new amp. I have probably averaged close to 3 hours a day of listening since getting it last November and it has been 100%. Responds very well to tube changes, even in the two AX positions, despite what I’ve read in some comments across the ‘net.

I subsequently added a new Technics 1210-G turntable and I fine the phono stage has a strikingly similar sound signature to my digital sources since I upgraded my DAC, which is to say I like it quite well. Since you looking at used, it’s worth mentioning that the upgrades to the various Cronus Magnum models (I, II and III) have included upgrades to the phono stage, which BTW, is solid state. I do not have any first-hand knowledge about the differences in sound from one to the other, but have seen some mention that the upgrade to the CM3 phono stage was audible.

Rogue has the upgrade paths and costs on their website, so you can see what it costs to go from a 1 to a 3 or 2 to a 3, etc. If it were just the amp you were using, I don’t think it would be justifiable since the CM1 I auditioned sounded every bit as good as the CM3 I now own, but the phono stage upgrade may change that for you.

If you are on FB, there is a Rogue Audio group that is pretty good. Also, I’d have to stop and think if I’ve ever heard a bad word mentioned there. Can’t recall at the moment.

The dealer also said the CM3 would drive any speaker in the store, Magnepans included. So, that along with the upgrade paths Rogue offers makes me think it could be the last amp I buy … unless I go up in the Rogue line one day.

Edit: Well, I guess I rambled, anyway. Hopefully, it helps.

pitdogg2

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bcwsrt

pitdogg2 wrote: »

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Keep scrolling, my good man.

pitdogg2

Caught me lol

muncybob

Hey Brian, appreciate your input. Only reservation I have is the mention of a ss phono stage. I have enjoyed the PAS4 phono but that's certainly not to say that a good ss wouldn't tickle my fancy. Sounds like the Rogue's are dependable which is high on my list of must have.

bcwsrt

Is it a CM1 or CM2 that you are looking at?

There are some Cronus Magnum threads on the Steve Hoffman forum that may help you decide. Also, I think that somewhere along the way I recall seeing someone mention the ability to itemize the upgrades with Rogue. So, you may be able to have them just do the phono stage upgrades without the rest and have a hybrid Cronus. Nick would be able to answer that for you, for sure.

I never had a turntable connected to the CM1 or maybe I'd be able to comment about the changes. But, I don't have any complaints about the phono stage in the CM3. I would like to try a tube phono preamp just for fun, but not because I feel like anything is missing with what I already have.

msg

Jeez, Brian, way to use up all the internet! Save some for other people!

Great info, very insightful.

muncybob

So, I was about to put the preamp up for sale(really would rather not) and came across this place:

www.restoredhifi.com

Anybody have any experience with them? They seem to be legit, but you know how that goes....

pitdogg2

How far is Austin Tx. from you?

muncybob

couple days

pitdogg2

Well my bad I thought you lived in Texas.

bcwsrt

He does. Texas is BIG, ya know.

muncybob

Well, PA isn't small either but still a long way from TX. I wish a good shop was closer to us but I'm coming up empty so far. Don't have a problem shipping it somewhere but would rather hear from somebody to back up their claims.

muncybob

Still considering a new amp, but has my luck (or lack of) would have it...truck needs a new tranny. Just gives me more time to ponder things I guess.

The more I read about the Magnum III, the more I want this thing. Is this amp common ground?

bcwsrt

Yes.

treitz3

Try contacting these shops.

https://musictechnology.com/ - ask for Bill (Virginia)**

or https://shopjustaudio.com/ - NE of Baltimore in MD

If they can't help you, this cat will definitely be able to get back up and running...

Georgia - Modular Electronics**
11205 Alpharetta Hwy UNIT B3, Roswell, GA 30076
benny@aminaaudio.com
(770)410-1122 or (770)642-6259

**recommended

Tom

muncybob

Thanks guys. I'll look into those shops. Part of me wants to repair the Dynaco and part of me wants the CMIII. Wish I could do both.

muncybob

Tom, FYI.....Music Technology shop has closed. I did email Bill to see if he is still doing repairs and due to his health he is not able to help.

mhardy6647

Always sad to hear of a situation like that one, @muncybob ;(

pitdogg2

I remember when the TV repairman came to your house, set up his gadgets and 45 minutes later your TV was back in tip top shape.

ken brydson

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I remember when the TV repairman came to your house, set up his gadgets and 45 minutes later your TV was back in tip top shape.

Jeff Spicoli's dad?

treitz3

muncybob wrote: »

Tom, FYI.....Music Technology shop has closed. I did email Bill to see if he is still doing repairs and due to his health he is not able to help.

Awe, dang. That's so sad to hear. Thanks for the update.

Tom

muncybob

I'm considering a few different repair shops for the Dynaco. I just can't seem to part with it, maybe because it was my first tube amp? Anyways, all the shops I've contacted have a backlog of 4 to 6 weeks before they even look at the amp. With the colder weather setting in that's almost an eternity for me to be w/o tunes.

So perhaps an odd request...does anybody have a preamp collecting dust you could part with for a few months to keep the good times rolling while the Dynaco is gone? Of course, I'll pay for shipping both ways and if for any reason it gets damaged, I'll buy it from you.