Oracle Delphi turntable

newbie308

I stopped into an audio equipment retailer near my home town over the weekend. They run a trade in program and then resell some of the equipment. One of the items they picked up is an Oracle Delphi turntable. It comes with all of the original packaging and is equipped with an early Kuzuma tone arm and a Monster cable Alpha 2 cartridge. I'm guessing that the suspension in the cartridge is probably deteriorated due to age, so I'd probably need to replace it. They are asking $1500 for the setup, as is. The turntable is in decent shape, so corrosion on the aluminum, but otherwise it looks like it was well cared for. The dust cover is nearly perfect. I'm looking for opinions. Is this a good price? Is this a good turntable? I've heard good reviews on Kuzuma tone arms, and new tone arms from Kuzuma are three times the price of this turntable, so I suspect there is little risk that I'd lose money on the deal. What do you think? Should I go for it?

SeleniumFalcon

The Oracle turntable is excellent in my semi-humble opinion. I used to sell them and became very familiar with setting them up. In fact Steve McCormack (of McCormack amplifier fame) was the national representative for Oracle and did the setup training. The mass of the tonearm and the specific springs used in the suspension towers are interdependent. Different tonearms require changing the springs to compensate for the increase/decrease in effective mass. I wouldn't recommend changing tonearms unless additional springs with different spring rates were available. Also, the Monster Alpha 2 was a great sounding cartridge, I still have one. You might consider sending it to Soundsmith for evaluation and reworking, if necessary.

newbie308

Thank you! This is exactly the type of input I am seeking. I didn't realize that Soundsmith dealt with suspensions, I thought they specialized in retipping only. That's good to know! I visited the Oracle website, and they still support their legacy products. In fact, they offer a lot of upgrades for this turntable.

SeleniumFalcon

I believe the only way they can address the suspension is by replacing the complete cantilever assembly. I'm sure they also offer ways to upgrade the sound quality. They did a fine job on my Shelter 901 I sent a while ago.
I always felt the combination of the bevelled platter washer and integrated spindle clamp made for one of the best record playing systems around. Their suspension system was so good at isolating from mechanical shocks that we would pound on the display shelf when a record was playing and the customer wouldn't believe the arm didn't skip. We sold a lot with the Grace 707 tonearms.

newbie308

I just called and purchased the turntable over the phone. I will probably go pick it up next weekend and post some pictures when I do.

SeleniumFalcon

Yea!

newbie308

I picked up the turntable on Tuesday night. I researched the tone arm and the cartridge that are currently on it. The tonearm is not a Kuzma as the dealer suggested, it is actually an Oracle Prelude. The arm has some nice features including on the fly VTA adjustment (like a Kuzma), and a built in automatic tone arm lifter that triggers when the arm reaches the runout groove. The cartridge is a Monstercable Alpha 1(not the Alpha 2). Today was my first chance to start working on the turntable, it needs a lot of love before I can set it up and spin records. The first order of business was to remove the cartridge and clean forty years of crud off of the stylus. A little isopropyl alcohol and some gentle scrubbing with a stylus brush revealed the boron cantilever and the diamond that is mounted on it. Both are in good condition. Surprisingly, the suspension appears to be intact as well. I decided, since I have a brand new head shell, to mount this cartridge and test it on my Technics SL1200. That turned into a multi hour endeavor since the Alpha 1 is taller than the Clearaudio cartridge I was using. I raised the VTA adjustment on the SME 3009, but quickly discovered that the arm was riding on the cueing assembly, so the needle never reached the record. I had to adjust the cueing assembly down, and that is no fun with the SME arm. Once the VTA was set and the needle could reach the record, I setup the protractor and adjusted the cartridge alignment. I set the tracking force with a digital scale, the anti skate with a test record, and plugged the RCA cords into the MC inputs on the preamp and set the cartridge loading.



I played several records, and my first impressions are not favorable. The cartridge provides plenty of detail in the midrange. Vocals and guitar are spectacular, but bass notes are rounded and lack definition and the higher registers are tizzy and harsh. I did a little investigation into the cartridge. It cost approximately $400 when new in 1983. I did an adjustment for inflation to today's prices, and that same cartridge today would be $1200. Does that mean I need to spend over $1200 to get a better cartridge today? That's frustrating and concerning...

Joey_V

Congrats on the acquisition
I am always hesitant on purchasing a used cart because it is technically a consumable good
For your case, could it be the vta being off?

newbie308

That is a definite possibility. I'm no master at setting VTA. As a rule, I generally start with the cartridge body level and then adjust from there by ear. Unfortunately, setting the VTA on a SME3009 arm is a lesson in frustration. Someday I hope to own a Graham tonearm, he designed his arms, so the VTA can be incrementally adjusted and the value recorded, so when you find the sweet spot for a specific record, you can take note of the setting and keep it with the record sleeve. Being a mechanical engineer and a machinist, I like that!

Joey_V

The vpi I have has vta on the fly bases, they are very helpful but the tolerance is not at the level of the hyper tables out there

jdjohn

Congrats on the Oracle.

The stylus could be worn out on the cartridge. Any idea on the number of hours on it?

newbie308

No clue how many hours are on it. I might send it to Soundsmith to be evaluated. Before I cleaned it, the stylus wasn't even visible. The stylus and cantilever were completely covered in furry gunk. The other option is to sell it and a few other pieces I have laying around and get a Koetsu black or a Sumiko blackbird. That's really where I'd like to be anyway.

treitz3

newbie308 wrote: »

That is a definite possibility. I'm no master at setting VTA. ody level and then adjust from there by ear.

Atta boy!

Tom

jbreezy5

newbie308 wrote: »

That is a definite possibility. I'm no master at setting VTA. As a rule, I generally start with the cartridge body level and then adjust from there by ear. Unfortunately, setting the VTA on a SME3009 arm is a lesson in frustration. Someday I hope to own a Graham tonearm, he designed his arms, so the VTA can be incrementally adjusted and the value recorded, so when you find the sweet spot for a specific record, you can take note of the setting and keep it with the record sleeve. Being a mechanical engineer and a machinist, I like that!

Whew! Not just changing the record on every play, but the VTA too! 😳 😮

More power to ya!

jdjohn

newbie308 wrote: »

No clue how many hours are on it. I might send it to Soundsmith to be evaluated. Before I cleaned it, the stylus wasn't even visible. The stylus and cantilever were completely covered in furry gunk. The other option is to sell it and a few other pieces I have laying around and get a Koetsu black or a Sumiko blackbird. That's really where I'd like to be anyway.

A shame that such a nice tt and cartridge wasn't kept clean. It likely took a long time for the stylus to get so dirty, so probably lots of hours on it. Also wondering if the SME 3009 is a good match for that cartridge.

msg

@newbie308 - congrats on the new pickup. when're you gonna update your name?

and back to the VTA? I was just reading about this not too long ago, and thought about it when you mentioned lacking bass, and then saw Joey asked.

So is it possible the VTA is too high, like a jacked up Nova? I read that some people like some tail sag for the bass improvement.

BlueBirdMusic

Everyone, this is a great and interesting thread.

engie490

@newbie308 please post a pic of the Oracle when you get a chance. Interested to figure out which version you have.

The Monsters were supposed to be good carts, but this one is suspect. I wouldn’t judge it too harshly until you have an expert check it out.

But it might be working as intended and you just don’t care for it. There are a lot more than 31 flavors of MC carts…

If Soundsmith is too backed up, recommend reaching out to Steve Leung at VAS. Retipped my AT ART-1 and it sounds excellent.

newbie308

newbie308

I took the entire assembly apart and cleaned every mechanical component except for the tonearm. That's next! Anything that I could chuck up in my lathe got a liberal buffing with Scotchbrite. The main bearing was cleaned up and lubricated according to the instructions. I was very fortunate that this table came complete with the original packaging and manuals for both the turntable and the tonearm. What is astounding is that the dust cover is in excellent condition for its age.

treitz3

Very nice, sir! Well done.

Tom

newbie308

Thanks Tom! Being a mechanical engineer and a machinist, I really enjoy studying other people's designs, and I'm digging the way this turntable was built. I've been studying the upgrade package that Oracle offers for this turntable, and other than the very expensive motor and circuit assembly, everything else is pretty basic. Like a black Delrin platter mat to replace the original rubber mat, pointed Delrin feet to replace the felt pads, a crescent shaped counterweight for the deck, and little cups filled with damping fluid that attach to the plinth with paddles that attach to the deck. Simple machined parts, but Oracle has priced them such that upgrading an existing turntable is more expensive than purchasing the latest model. With that in mind, I'm thinking about making these upgrade components in my machine shop and installing them myself.

engie490

That’s a gorgeous table! Definitely looks like a Mk 1…depending on what the motor looks like.

Agreed on the upgrades. It’s a revenue stream for the company, because only so many people can buy $10K+ tables.

jdjohn

newbie308 wrote: »

...other than the very expensive motor and circuit assembly, everything else is pretty basic.

I agree with that. Trust your gut and intuition with cleaning the existing suspension components, and getting things fine-tuned to your liking.

newbie308

I have been reading reviews about the Prelude tonearm that came with this Delphi turntable, and most of the reviews suggested replacing the arm and it will be the single biggest improvement to sound quality. Because of this, I have been looking at various tonearms. An SME IV or V is out of my price range, but a Rega RB-880 or even the RB-3000 is a possibility. From what I understand, the RB-3000 is the same as the RB-880 but with better bearings and a polished finish at three times the price. I'm not sure what to do...

SeleniumFalcon

A change in tonearms might mean a change in the tower springs is needed. I've always thought that Rega's tonearms were very good. Make sure the cartridge you plan on using matches the effective mass of the tonearm. It's all a tuned system, springs and weights.

newbie308

Another arm I'm looking at is a Sumiko MDC 800. According to the setup instructions for the Oracle Delphi, it uses the same springs as the Oracle arm. I suspect it will work well with a Sumiko Starling cartridge, and "the arm" is highly regarded.

newbie308

I couldn't find anything online that specified that the Oracle logo is supposed to be back-lit, so I did a little investigation and sure enough there are two incandescent lamps behind the logo. Both are burned out on this deck. I considered replacing them with LEDs, but decided to get original replacement 7387 lamps from Digikey.

billbillw

I had an Oracle Alexandria with that Prelude tonearm. I was not a fan of it. I recall that I replaced with the some type of SME (Series III? ...one of the lightweight ones).

Honestly, you have an SL1200mk2 with an SME 3009. Why did you feel the need to upgrade? That sounds like a superior setup to me. The SL1200 will hold its own and has a much torquier motor. The Oracles are a bit finicky to setup and keep running correctly. I wish I had never sold my 1200mk2. I wish I had seen this thread a few weeks ago.
My brother has a Delphi, but it is a much later version, like a Mk4 or something. It is still finicky and I prefer my stable as a rock VPI.

newbie308

I plan on keeping my SL1200. The Oracle is a pet project and I find the design attractive. It's one of those, I have always wanted one like that, situations. Besides, I needed a new project.

billbillw

newbie308 wrote: »

I plan on keeping my SL1200. The Oracle is a pet project and I find the design attractive. It's one of those, I have always wanted one like that, situations. Besides, I needed a new project.

I agree they look awesome. Just don't be too upset if it never sounds as good as the SL1200
I had fun with my Alexandria for a couple years.