Chanage SDA Series to a standard 2-Channel

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SDA CRS+ Can I disconnect the imaging drivers and connect it with the standard left and right drivers? Or will the standard channel then not have enough power to drive 2 drivers? It would be like a Monitor 10 configuration.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,993
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    Why the hell would you want to do that!?!
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • walkerhollis
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    Ah, that is a question to a question, not the answer...
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,993
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    Ah, that is a question to a question, not the answer...

    That was the one and only answer.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,720
    edited March 2023
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    I have a hard time deciding whether to “Agree” or “LOL” with F1nut’s replies in this thread, so one of each, so far.

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,993
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    It's such a stupid idea it doesn't merit further discussion. There's your answer.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • bcwsrt
    bcwsrt Posts: 1,720
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    That one was easier. 😂

    Brian

    One-owner Polk Audio RTA 15TL speakers refreshed w/ Sonicap, Vishay/Mills and Cardas components by "pitdogg2," "xschop" billet tweeter plates and BH5 | Stereo REL Acoustics T/5x subwoofers w/ Bassline Blue cables | Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum III integrated tube amp | Technics SL-1210G turntable w/ Ortofon 2M Black LVB 250 MM cart | Sony CDP-508ESD CD player (as a transport) | LampizatOr Baltic 4 tube DAC | Nordost & DH Labs cables/interconnects | APC H15 Power Conditioner | GIK Acoustics room treatments | Degritter RCM
  • walkerhollis
    walkerhollis Posts: 8
    edited March 2023
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    There is always at least one **** bag in discussion forums that think their opinion is needed when it was not asked and cannot simply answer the question at hand. In this case it is the President of the Polk forum. La de da da. I have probably enjoyed Polks longer than you and have my reasons for the question, loser. Say hello to your mom this afternoon when she brings your lunch to you in her basement.
  • SeleniumFalcon
    SeleniumFalcon Posts: 3,564
    edited March 2023
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    pdirg8yttxz7.png
    I could be wrong, but I don't believe anyone has converted an SDA speaker into a non-SDA speaker that I am aware of. Those who use the speakers in the SDA arrangement and enjoy the results are prone to defend the concept and react to questions emotionally rather strongly. There is nothing wrong with experimenting with your speakers, that's part of the fun of ownership. What I can point out is that any speaker is really a tuned instrument, much like a guitar or piano. One part of the system is intertwined with the rest and changing one section effects all the others. The characteristics of the individual drivers and tweeters interact with the components on the crossover circuit board and all are influenced by the size, composition and number of holes or vents the box has. The final result either reminds listeners of something that could be called music or doesn't.
    Maybe if you explained a little bit why this idea to change the speaker occurred to you and what your end goal is we might be able to suggest a way to help. All of us are merely clowns on this musical bus.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,784
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    SDA CRS+ Can I disconnect the imaging drivers and connect it with the standard left and right drivers? Or will the standard channel then not have enough power to drive 2 drivers? It would be like a Monitor 10 configuration.

    My suggestion would be to source some Monitor 10's.

    I should also state there is an inherent problem with two of the same divers in close proximity with each other. It is one of the reasons Polk made the Monitor 11 and RTA 12 differently. Those have Lefts and Rights so the correct driver is on the correct sides. Both drivers are NOT putting out the same frequencies. Each has its own bandwidth so to not interfere with each other.
  • engie490
    engie490 Posts: 428
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    SDA CRS+ Can I disconnect the imaging drivers and connect it with the standard left and right drivers? Or will the standard channel then not have enough power to drive 2 drivers? It would be like a Monitor 10 configuration.

    1. If you want to hear the CRSs in straight stereo, just disconnect the SDA cable.

    2. If you want to connect the 2 drivers to the same crossover signal, there's no reason you can't. But I believe that you've already received good advice on that point. They are not identical drivers and they are not designed to work together using the same signal.

    Building speakers is very much an engineering exercise and involves a great deal of work to get even partially correct. There are a lot of factors that are delicately balanced to achieve the sound you hear. Think of what you're proposing as playing Jenga and you're pulling one of the bottom pieces out of a 3 foot tower of blocks. It's probably not going to be pretty...

    All that said, you can try it and you probably won't blow anything up.

    3. I'm not sure what you mean by standard channel not having enough power. Yes, if you wire both drivers to the same non-SDA signal from the crossover, you will change the impedance of the speaker and make it harder to drive, but you should still be able to get decent levels without damaging your amp.
    Alon Petite / Infinity 1.2S / Coda Continuum / Counterpoint SA5000 / Oppo BDP-105D / Technics SP-15 w/SAEC WE-308SX & Ortofon AS-309 arms / Ikeda 9C2 & Dynavector XX2 Mk II carts
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,696
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    There is always at least one **** bag in discussion forums that think their opinion is needed when it was not asked and cannot simply answer the question at hand. In this case it is the President of the Polk forum. La de da da. I have probably enjoyed Polks longer than you and have my reasons for the question, loser. Say hello to your mom this afternoon when she brings your lunch to you in her basement.

    lolol, hilarious response.
  • plastic_avatar
    plastic_avatar Posts: 694
    edited March 2023
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    Ah, that is a question to a question, not the answer...

    Hey there, new guy.

    Funny you asked this. A similar thought has been on my mind.

    First question:

    What drives you to do it?

    Second question:

    What's your ultimate goal- your success ideal?


    I understand the idea of trying this mod.

    For me, a few things I listen to just don't sound right on my 1C (mostly metal, but other mixes that are poor and just terrible on them). I wondered if I switched the SDA drivers off, would a straight, never-intended-to-work-that-way option be o.k. for straight stereo listening of these albums? Or, is the quality just so much better, overall, than my previous setup... and great stereo speakers will also sound bad =(

    I think of goofy and odd stuff every day. So I get it.

    @SeleniumFalcon has a great response up there. Trust me, mucking around with SDA stuff and changing up things too much will likely be more trouble than finding a good stereo speaker to have as a companion to an SDA speaker. I'm just going to refresh the speakers I replaced with the 1C to try on those troublesome tracks.

    @engie490 Has great points, too. Odds are you'll just end up with a poorer sounding approximation of a better option. JENGA! Seriously, I was crazy lucky with my mods, so far, but stereo'ing an SDA gives me pause.

    @pitdogg2 brings up a good point, too. And I wonder if running both mids in concert would just be awful compared to disengaging the dimensional speaker. But, at that point, a Monitor 5 would probably sound better. So you could sell the CRS+ and buy something more suited to your wants.

    I'm sure some of the guys will help you figure out the wiring, if you want to try it.

    It won't kill anyone, and you'll learn stuff along the way.
    Post edited by plastic_avatar on
    The Thrifty Setups in Mah House Big thrifty stereo in the basement w/ my custom SDA-1C (built with help from kind forum members) * Beautiful 1966 MCM GE console upgraded w/ Bluetooth, Dual turntable, and Paradigm speakers in family room * Swanky 1980 Realistic system and great TEAC eq with dancing colored lights in the living room * custom 5B on a system for my Dad * Ye Olde college stereo in the garage
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,105
    edited March 2023
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    SDA crossovers are nothing like stereo crossovers. There is no addition or subtraction that could be done to the SDA cross overs so it would sound like a stereo (Monitor 10) speaker. It's not worth the effort or damage that you will do.

    Just buy Monitor 10's. I have seen someone turn a Monitor 10B into an SDA Frankenpolk using the correct drivers and swapping x-overs. Even with the correct drivers and CRS+ x-overs it wasn't a succesfull experiment.

    Search for post by the since deceased Ben62670, he tried it after many of us, including myself told him it wouldn't work.

    F1 has been around the Polk family longer than I have and I've been on this board for over 20+ years and pretty much have seen every type of terrible idea anyone (including this one) has come up with.

    If you decide to do this all you will be doing is ruining a perfectly good set of SDA's. There is no path to creating a well performing stereo speaker out of a pair of SDA CRS's.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,795
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    Try un-plugging the interconnect and turning them on their sides, with tweeter to the inside of the vertical plane.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,993
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    .

    Your maturity is...well, MIA.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • DarqueKnight
    DarqueKnight Posts: 6,765
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    SDA CRS+ Can I disconnect the imaging drivers and connect it with the standard left and right drivers? Or will the standard channel then not have enough power to drive 2 drivers? It would be like a Monitor 10 configuration.

    To put this in perspective: It is like asking if you can go bungee jumping with the cord tied around your neck and a 500 pound barbell tied to your feet. Of course you can, but.....
    Proud and loyal citizen of the Digital Domain and Solid State Country!
  • Livinloud
    Livinloud Posts: 43
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »

    I should also state there is an inherent problem with two of the same divers in close proximity with each other. It is one of the reasons Polk made the Monitor 11 and RTA 12 differently. Those have Lefts and Rights so the correct driver is on the correct sides. Both drivers are NOT putting out the same frequencies.

    This is not completely accurate. The Monitor 11’s made in 1986-1987 are wired just like the Monitor 10’s. Your point is still accurate concerning the RTA 11’s and RTA 12’s
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,993
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    No, his point about the original and real Monitor 11 is spot on. Your speakers could be called the Monitor 11 series 2 with the same lobing issues as the Monitor 10.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Livinloud
    Livinloud Posts: 43
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    @F1nut “real Monitor 11” 🤣 pretty sure that no documentation calls what I have Series 2. I did acknowledge that what he said was right regarding the speakers marketed as the RTA 11’s. You can call them Monitor 11’s all you want because a salesman wrote that on a receipt. Doesn’t change a thing.

  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,993
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    You yourself stated 95% of the info you found referred to the original Monitor 11 as the Monitor 11. Even the man himself referred to them as the Monitor 11 to my face. End of story.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 17,027
    edited March 2023
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  • Livinloud
    Livinloud Posts: 43
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    @F1nut 😏

    95% of people like you referring to a speaker with different driver configuration and no acknowledgment that the Monitor 11 made in 1986 and 1987 does not have this configuration is not proof of an alternate reality.

    I can see why the RTA 11 is referred to as Monitor 11. It is in the Monitor Reference Series and its name has an 11. Yes, technically that makes it a Monitor 11. You seem to miss my point of clarification that there is a documented name difference that helps bring clarification to 2 different speakers. When someone makes a blanket statement that is half false by considering the two different speakers the same, it is not helpful. I was trying to be helpful. Feel free to say end of story, doesn’t change that there are 2 different speakers with 2 different documented names and statements that consider them the same are in fact, inaccurate.

    So I repeat, the Monitor 11 made in 1986-1987 has the same woofer wiring configuration as the Monitor 10.

    @walkerhollis
    Apologies to the OP for the thread derailment. Back to the original topic. If you want to try some different things and you stick to what can be reversible then it’s hard to go wrong. Have fun! Much of the experience on this thread indicates that you will not get better results. Considering the work and expense, it could be a costly experiment. If exploring the results and experimenting is what you are looking for, sounds like a fun project for both.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,784
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    Classic!!
    😂🤣😂🤣
  • BlueBirdMusic
    BlueBirdMusic Posts: 2,118
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    Funny stuff people; made my day.
    "Sometimes you have to look to the past to understand where you are going in the future"


    Harry / Marietta GA
  • skipshot12
    skipshot12 Posts: 1,035
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    Not sure what the CRS’s are compared to the sda SRS’s but, I would think if one did this to the srs having the mids side by side could cause some issues.

    There is a company out there that does multiple drivers side by side but it may just be with the tweeters, not positive on this… Tekton?

    Guess it might be made to work if the crossovers were designed for such an application… just a guess though.
  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,272
    edited March 2023
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    the SDA CRS was the "compact" variety. There were at least a couple of different morphs.

    qn6jofuyz32t.png

    "Compact Reference System" -- visible at right front above.

    This 1986 ad shows the CRS+

    4emc7gnoiziq.png
    source: https://worldradiohistory.com/hd2/IDX-Audio/Archive-Stereo-Review-IDX/IDX/80s/HiFI-Stereo-Review-1986-09-OCR-Page-0010.pdf
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,795
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    Yet, they all came with the dreaded SL2000 tweeter.
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,784
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    xschop wrote: »
    Yet, they all came with the dreaded SL2000 tweeter.

    Pretty sure they didn't......
  • xschop
    xschop Posts: 4,795
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    Just meant the one's in Mhardy's pics. :D
    Don't take experimental gene therapies from known eugenicists.