Thoughts about this piece.

heiney9
heiney9 Posts: 25,017
All of this signal conditioning/correcting for Ethernet and USB. I ran across this for use in my office rig.

Any thoughts? Too cheap to make a difference? Will make a difference? General thoughts, opinions. Build quality, etc.

https://www.ebay.com/itm/275300989145

I know the first answer is "try is and see". I most likely am, but it doesn't hurt to have some discussion

Third bullet point makes me think of the LPS I just bought. The same MOSFET is being used. I assume in the same way.

H9
"Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
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Comments

  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,136
    Can't you get something like that at a lower price through Ali Express? That's where all the cheap, Chinese - no name LPS brands usually come from.

    If you don't like heat emanating from a PS, then I would stay away from MOSFET's.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    My thought is this doesn't need the same power as the LPS I'm currently trying to use. Trying not to read between the lines, but are you basically dismissing it because it's cheap Chinese - fi.?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    Also, I don't mind heat, I do mind things getting so hot you can't leave your hand on there for more 15 seconds or it starts to hurt
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    Plus this wouldn't be on all the time only when listening to music. Whereas the LPS I was using would be on all the time and unattended much of the time.

    Just my thought process as I'm sure this will get warm
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,106
    They are beyond vague when it comes to what does it do to the data? Reclocking? Regenerating? They don't say anything.

    I have the iPurifier3 along with an iPower low noise 5V supply + iDefender. Very happy with the sound but I'm sure there are better solutions.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    That's why I started a discussion here. Just to see what some opinions were. Looks like it takes the USB signal and separates the data stream from the power stream, cleans them up and then uses the LPS for the power portion of the USB rather than the power from the device it's hooked up to.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    I'm guessing it's more beneficial for audio components running off USB power. It does beg the question if it cleans up the signal coming out of my computer and into the dac section of my integrated amp.
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • jdjohn
    jdjohn Posts: 2,967
    heiney9 wrote: »
    I'm guessing it's more beneficial for audio components running off USB power. It does beg the question if it cleans up the signal coming out of my computer and into the dac section of my integrated amp.
    That would be my guess. Too bad there's not an output that is only music/data. There's one output for power, one for power+music, but not one just for music/data.

    I'm having a hard time imagining what kind of device would actually benefit from this. When I think of devices that run on USB power, it's usually something small, and/or it's a rechargeable device where you would disconnect the PS once charged.
    "This may not matter to you, but it does to me for various reasons, many of them illogical or irrational, but the vinyl hobby is not really logical or rational..." - member on Vinyl Engine
    "Sometimes I do what I want to do. The rest of the time, I do what I have to." - Cicero, in Gladiator
    Regarding collectibles: "It's not who gets it. It's who gets stuck with it." - Jimmy Fallon
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,106
    edited March 2023
    I see this all the time. It's like..........We no say much so we make more sell. Thank you sir! 😂

    I think there are still plenty of USB DACs at the lower end on the price scale that do not have a built in power supply or a power input to use an external PS and therefore utilize USB power. At least that is what my now somewhat outdated iFi nano idsd DAC does. I used the iDefender to allow me to hook up the iPower low noise supply. This one seems pretty pricy comparatively since they do not make any claims regarding what is done to "filter" the data/music.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,136
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Trying not to read between the lines, but are you basically dismissing it because it's cheap Chinese - fi.?

    Absolutely not. Both Trey and I use one no name cheap Chinese (CCC, which my son coined...stands for cheap Chinese crap) LPS's in our streaming setup. I don't feel that they are throttlenecking or a detriment to either of our systems.

    Mine is hooked up to the modem, if memory serves....keeping the "possible" worst equipment toward the front of the chain and keeping the best toward the last part of the chain.

    Mine is a Zero Zone LPS (single output) and came as a package deal with the EtherREGEN I got, so for me, it was basically free. I don't have any complaints with it. Neither did the guy I bought it from (who had one heck of a system). He even listed it in the sale as a "cheap, no name brand LPS". For the price? I sure wasn't gonna complain!

    I am curious if there would be any audible difference but I doubt there would be, honestly....however, I do reserve the right to be incorrect in my assumptions on this. I thought that there couldn't be any improvement before and was shown that I was incorrect in that assumption when I made a component switch out, so...

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    Thanks Tom for the explanation. I'm not usually one to throw $$$ at just any old thing. I may keep this on the back burner. I may get an ISO Regen or USB Regen. Used of course. At least they have the science and explanation that makes sense. Reviews are good.

    Or as I told myself when I simplified my office rig that I will just leave it alone.......lol
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 740
    Lhy audio is one of the few good Chinese company s .
  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 740
    And you can get that exact power supply on AliExpress for less then half of ebay
  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 740
    Lhy is a sub of jays audio
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    I am negotiating a USB Regen from a seller who only has the unit, no PS, box or accessories. If I can get it for a decent price, I'll pull the trigger.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    edited March 2023
    rebelsoul wrote: »
    And you can get that exact power supply on AliExpress for less then half of ebay

    Yeah, this one is about the same. Except it looks like the Mosfet is actually attached to a heat sink. $80 cheaper

    https://www.ebay.com/itm/125800289069?_trkparms=amclksrc=ITM&aid=111001&algo=REC.SEED&ao=1&asc=20160811114145&meid=4c7314f499b3460aba3b84cd8c0782e2&pid=100667&rk=1&rkt=8&sd=125800289069&itm=125800289069&pmt=1&noa=1&pg=2351460&_trksid=p2351460.c100667.m2042

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,106
    edited March 2023
    At least that one ^^ gives some details on how the data noise is eliminated, and they are saying it is by active noise cancellation through creating an equal and opposite signal to the noise. My iPurifier3 does this but could not, for whatever reason, take out the 8kHz packet noise that was coming from my computer, but it was better than iPurifier1. The Squeezebox Touch streamer was my solution for that which worked. Took the computer out of the loop.

    xld8uplux1gd.jpg

    What I got when multiple Chrome browser tabs were open. 8kHz fundamental packet noise plus 2x multiple at 16kHz (iPurifier1).

    6w41udzm6fse.png

    iPurifier3:

    x3d39aofmg6k.png


    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,247

    Third bullet point makes me think of the LPS I just bought. The same MOSFET is being used. I assume in the same way.

    H9[/quote]

    The problem is the way the MOSFET is used, it not having a heat sink is the problem. I seen a linear power supply that has a dual regulated linear power supply that uses MOSFETs, but has huge heat sinks and a bigger transformer, it can run two devices up to six amps, with 20 amps peak. These kind of power supplies are close to $1,000.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,214
    Brock, is your office computer a laptop or desktop?

    Are you currently experiencing any audio issues?

    Is the DAC you use in there USB powered, or does it also offer external power?
    I disabled signatures.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,214
    At least that one ^^ gives some details on how the data noise is eliminated, and they are saying it is by active noise cancellation through creating an equal and opposite signal to the noise. My iPurifier3 does this but could not, for whatever reason, take out the 8kHz packet noise that was coming from my computer, but it was better than iPurifier1. The Squeezebox Touch streamer was my solution for that which worked. Took the computer out of the loop.

    xld8uplux1gd.jpg

    What I got when multiple Chrome browser tabs were open. 8kHz fundamental packet noise plus 2x multiple at 16kHz (iPurifier1).

    6w41udzm6fse.png

    iPurifier3:

    x3d39aofmg6k.png

    Was this a laptop or desktop?
    Any other USB devices of any sort connected?
    I disabled signatures.
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    msg wrote: »
    Brock, is your office computer a laptop or desktop?

    Are you currently experiencing any audio issues?

    Is the DAC you use in there USB powered, or does it also offer external power?

    Desktop
    No audio issues at all.

    https://power-holdings-inc.com/Keces-E40-Integrated-Amplifier-p137036102

    Dac is built in to the integrated amp.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    Maybe I'm looking for a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist?
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,214
    Ah okay. The reason I was asking is because USB DAC problems in computer audio in many cases can be caused by USB bus sharing. Devices like spinning external USB hard drives were notorious for adding nasty noise into USB audio. I also found that while streaming audio to a USB bus powered DAC, my mouse and keyboard would behave erratically, as well. The solution was a modest dedicated USB 2.0 card in its own slot, with nothing but the USB DAC connected to it. All other issues cleared up, and the audio stream has been clean since.

    Rich has a really neat card that does even more for audio quality.
    I disabled signatures.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,214
    heiney9 wrote: »
    Maybe I'm looking for a solution to a problem that really doesn't exist?

    Eh, always something to tune and refine, right?

    This is the system with the R200s?
    IIRC from vague recollection of a photo, those are on stands near a wall in front of the desk, and pretty much at desk height?

    I had profound improvements in imaging and presentation by sitting "beneath" the speakers and having them several feet from the wall, closer to me. It was like a 4ft triangle bear field, with them crossing well behind my ears. Maybe about 15 degrees of toe.

    I feel like keep retelling this story, but I've never heard a presentation like this before. Incredibly clean. Supplemented with a sub, but wasn't entirely necessary. Provided some nice fill, though.

    I wonder if you could try something like that in your office, find some way to elevate the speakers a couple of feet, maybe some blocks beneath the stands.

    Save you some money? :)
    I disabled signatures.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,106
    msg wrote: »
    At least that one ^^ gives some details on how the data noise is eliminated, and they are saying it is by active noise cancellation through creating an equal and opposite signal to the noise. My iPurifier3 does this but could not, for whatever reason, take out the 8kHz packet noise that was coming from my computer, but it was better than iPurifier1. The Squeezebox Touch streamer was my solution for that which worked. Took the computer out of the loop.

    xld8uplux1gd.jpg

    What I got when multiple Chrome browser tabs were open. 8kHz fundamental packet noise plus 2x multiple at 16kHz (iPurifier1).

    6w41udzm6fse.png

    iPurifier3:

    x3d39aofmg6k.png

    Was this a laptop or desktop?
    Any other USB devices of any sort connected?

    It is a Lenovo i7 desktop computer and the only other devices on the USB were the keyboard and the mouse (on Belkin powered USB hub). What definitely triggered the packet noise was having a browser open with lots of tabs open to websites. The noise spikes were related to this activity and if I only had the TIDAL app open were much diminished but still there. When the music signal was superimposed on them, they were buried far beneath it for the most part but when there was quiet or between songs was audible to those with good hearing.
    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform
  • rebelsoul
    rebelsoul Posts: 740
    edited March 2023
    Taradak a good one
    Post edited by rebelsoul on
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    I purchased an Uptone Audio USB Regen a guy was selling w/o the power supply. This is for the office rig. I'll use my current lps or buy a different one. I bought it at a price I couldn't pass up.

    My EtherRegen should be here by Friday for the main rig. Hopefully I can set aside some evaluation time.

    H9
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • heiney9
    heiney9 Posts: 25,017
    I decided to go with Uptone Audio USB Regen to clean up any signal issues. It's gotten great reviews. Found a used one in perfect shape and it arrived today.

    sd5b27hgxmuf.jpg
    "Appreciation of audio is a completely subjective human experience. Measurements can provide a measure of insight, but are no substitute for human judgment. Why are we looking to reduce a subjective experience to objective criteria anyway? The subtleties of music and audio reproduction are for those who appreciate it. Differentiation by numbers is for those who do not".--Nelson Pass Pass Labs XA25 | EE Avant Pre | EE Mini Max Supreme DAC | MIT Shotgun S1 | Pangea AC14SE MKII | Legend L600 | BlueSound Node 3 - Tubes add soul!
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,214
    msg wrote: »
    At least that one ^^ gives some details on how the data noise is eliminated, and they are saying it is by active noise cancellation through creating an equal and opposite signal to the noise. My iPurifier3 does this but could not, for whatever reason, take out the 8kHz packet noise that was coming from my computer, but it was better than iPurifier1. The Squeezebox Touch streamer was my solution for that which worked. Took the computer out of the loop.

    xld8uplux1gd.jpg

    What I got when multiple Chrome browser tabs were open. 8kHz fundamental packet noise plus 2x multiple at 16kHz (iPurifier1).

    6w41udzm6fse.png

    iPurifier3:

    x3d39aofmg6k.png

    Was this a laptop or desktop?
    Any other USB devices of any sort connected?

    It is a Lenovo i7 desktop computer and the only other devices on the USB were the keyboard and the mouse (on Belkin powered USB hub). What definitely triggered the packet noise was having a browser open with lots of tabs open to websites. The noise spikes were related to this activity and if I only had the TIDAL app open were much diminished but still there. When the music signal was superimposed on them, they were buried far beneath it for the most part but when there was quiet or between songs was audible to those with good hearing.

    That's interesting. So, you still had the spikes even with the browser closed? Are you sure it was fully closed? Chrome's got a setting to keep running even when you close it. It's also got a setting for enabling hardware acceleration. I haven't read to see what that's about, but I guess it's either display adapter or processor related.

    I don't understand what your graphs are a record of. Is this an audio track?
    I disabled signatures.
  • Gardenstater
    Gardenstater Posts: 4,106
    edited March 2023
    It's been a while since I did this so my memory is not totally fresh but the more active the computer was at internet exchanges of data, the worse the packet noise was. Even with no browser open there was still a problem. When the desktop TIDAL app was open only apparently there were packets being exchanged still that leaked into the USB.

    m6l1g26b0db6.png

    The graphs above are pure background noise with no audio signal but with the DAC on. I could hear those spikes faintly as a high pitched tone. Here's some captures when I was playing some music at some volume level. Sometimes you can just barely see the 8kHz spike and the 16kHz one is buried. When the music got quieter, those peaks were audible. They are with iPurifier1. Apparently I didn't do any with iPurifier3 which is better.\

    iFi found this stuff very interesting and they showed their appreciation to me by donating the iPurifiers to the cause, which was kind. I should also say that the improvement on listening sound quality and enjoyment introduced by the iPurifier3 was not subtle, even though it couldn't take out these particular spikes.

    8m1gcawl9tbg.png

    o1lk8fm00vu4.png

    9pru5p6lwpcl.png

    asutqvvpdmga.png

    9tk2pkiu97zb.png

    Here is with a Belkin Powered USB hub and iPurifier1 with no music so just background noise but unfortunately handshake protocols with DAC were interfered with:

    4i1kdsip61gr.png






    George / NJ

    Polk 7B main speakers, std. mods+ (1979, orig owner)
    Martin Logan Dynamo sub w/6ft 14awg Power Cord
    Crown D150 amp
    Logitech Squeezebox Touch Streamer w/EDO applet
    iFi nano iDSD DAC
    iPurifier3
    iDefender w/ iPower PS
    Custom Steve Wilson 1m UPOCC Interconnect
    iFi Mercury 0.5m OFHC continuous cast copper USB cable
    Custom Ribbon Speaker Cables, 5ft long, 4N Copper, 14awg, ultra low inductance
    Custom Vibration Isolation Speaker Stands and Sub Platform