$300'ish and under DAC suggestions?

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Part 2 of the 'Help me plan my next purchase!' game

I got some really great side advice from some forum friendlies the past few months. And my number 1 potential dac is the Geshelli J2 with the AKM chip and a USB port (in red with smoky plexi, if you must know):

https://geshelli.com/product/jnog2/

I'm lookin' to lay money down in the next 2 months, so there's time for me to change my mind!

Since I have a beautiful, sweet sounding, new-to-me preamp *and* the poor-man's WiiM Mini for streaming, I need a pure dac to go in the mix (and it needs a coax digital in for my old CD player).

I don't care if I buy used or new.

I just want to get something that will give me the best experience, sonically, for my limited budget. I could save up more, and wait longer than 2 months, if the gains are truly worth it for the system I have.

So, I'm back for more of your sage advice, Hive Mind. And I appreciate any insight you have to offer.

---

If my system makes a difference in what is recommended, keep in mind it's thrifty, and it's listed at the top of the page at this link:

https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/195974/documenting-my-sda-1c-upgrades-from-start-to-finish#latest

Clipdat

https://apos.audio/collections/dac-digital-to-analog-converter/products/topping-d10s-dac

https://apos.audio/products/topping-e30-ii-dac-digital-to-analog-converter

https://apos.audio/collections/brand-spotlight-topping/products/topping-e50-dac-digital-to-analog-convertor

treitz3

Musical Fidelity V-DAC. I have one, if you are interested in it.

https://www.crutchfield.com/S-CEQBGp7OKCf/p_778VDAC/Musical-Fidelity-V-DAC.html

Tom

SillyOldSod

Highly recommend a Gustard X16 for around $300 used.

I had a far more expensive digital setup (Denafrips Terminator and Denafrips GAIA DDC) which I sold before the holidays with the intention of upgrading to something even more costly. I bought the Gustard X16 to hold me over until I could find a replacement for the Denafrips, but to be honest it sounds so good I’ve decided to throw the money into my analog rig instead.

I’m not saying that the X16 is as good as the Terminator + GAIA, it isn’t, but the differences are relatively small and I could easily live with the Gustard for the long term.
Plus, I’d much rather listen to vinyl these days;)

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Sir Mixalot

Between here and dm, I have a growing list of new/used sub $300’ish dacs.

As an adulting parent, I’m definitely a bang-for-the-buck seeker scoping out my first real standalone dac. The list is looking good, from $75’ish+shipping for a V-DAC (eBay price on a completed one) to $300’ish+ for a used Gustard

Recommended dac reviews, so far:

Gustard x16 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/gustard-x16-balanced-mqa-dac-review.17419/

Musical Fidelity V-DAC https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/review-and-teardown-of-musical-fidelity-v-dac.9825/

Geshelli J2 (not the aim, I don’t think…) https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/geshelli-jnog2-review-balanced-dac.34811/

Topping e30 II https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e30-ii-dac-review.36028/

Topping e50 https://www.audiosciencereview.com/forum/index.php?threads/topping-e50-review-balanced-dac.26219/

Non-USB input dacs were removed from the list.

The Toppings are looking like pretty good value at this stage.

Soundstage vs. Depth

I noticed that a lot of dac reviews will say a dac has great soundstage, but no depth (and vice versa). Or even sparkly highs, but lacking lows (and vice versa).

You guys, what’s your experience?

I think I’d enjoy some more depth. The SDA soundstage is killer.

Additional thoughts?

I don’t mind going cheaper new/used, but want to get the most for my dollar. Maybe in 5 years I can start worrying less about my budget

heiney9

Keces Audio DA-151

Hard to find, but they are excellent units that hold up well today and punch above their price point. I have one in the audio closet that I will always have in case I need a USB DAC.

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/usbdacs/2.html

They do show up FS occasionally for less than $200. But you have to be patient.

H9

heiney9

Also curious why you are going with USB. It's a much harder interface to implement than coax or optical. Lots of noise can be passed via USB, especially the early ones which would be in your price range.

H9

heiney9

If you could raise your budget and be patient you might be able to score an

Eastern Electric Mini Max dac. This would be a killer dac. I doubt you could get one for $300, but maybe $400 -475. But it would run circles around anything mentioned so far.....by a lot.

https://6moons.com/audioreviews/easternelectric/dac.html
https://darko.audio/2010/12/eastern-electric-minimax-tube-dac/

H9

heiney9

This is the dac I have (an absolutely love). There is one on Ebay right now for $499 which is a KILLER deal. Above your budget, I know, but start looking between the couch cushions for $$$.

$1100 retail in 2012.

https://www.dagogo.com/audio-blast-eastern-electric-tube-dac-plus-digital-to-analog-converter/

Mine is tweeked a bit with $200 worth of discrete op-amps.......

H9

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A quick response, @heiney9 (for me!), because it's almist 3 a.m. (was up parenting):

USB = that big ol' 500GB stash of mp3/aac/etc from 192-320kbps plus some variable bit rate from ages past. Some of which I know aren't available online.

It will be a seldom-used luxury. But I'd like to have it.

I *could* save up more and push the date out to, say, Jun 1. I won't discount that as a possibility.

heiney9

Nah, don't bother with the Eastern Electric or Keces if you are going to put garbage files through it. It's a waste of $$$ stick with a cheap dac if you're going to use compressed audio.

I thought you were using the Nak as a cd transport for a dac.

I'm serious, don't spend money for a very good dac if you're seriously running MP3's.

Garbage in = Garbage out.

Also, why did you spend all that time and $$$ on the 1C's to listen to a crappy source material? A luxury it will not be listening to compressed audio files.

Just being honest. If mp3's sound ok to you, then never spend a lot on audio gear, it's a waste.

smh

H9

Gardenstater

Where's our WOW button?

"It will be a seldom-used luxury. But I'd like to have it."

heiney9

I'm not trying to break your balls (too much), just being honest.

If you are hell bent on mostly compressed audio, the nicer the gear the worse it sounds.

I had one of these in my office rig (along time ago). It didn't do it for me, but for your application and budget it's a solid performer and fit right in with compressed audio streaming, etc.

Musiland 02

https://www.headfonia.com/musiland-02-24192-for-120/

Not sure how many come up for sale these days.

H9

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heiney9 wrote: »

Nah, don't bother with the Eastern Electric or Keces if you are going to put garbage files through it. It's a waste of $$$ stick with a cheap dac if you're going to use compressed audio.

I thought you were using the Nak as a cd transport for a dac.

- Nak + streamer to dac are the most important pairings.

- Having access to a chunk of live, independent, and off-beat stuff in compressed files is a luxury of convenience I want.

- Being able to access my backup flac library, rather than load CDs from the stacks, would be nice, too.

I might've been misunderstood

I looked at all those options last night, and they're going on the suggested list. Totally off my radar- I knew nothing about them.

Those are the kinds of real recommendations people like me (n00bs on dacs) need. It's exactly the kind of input I want to make the most informed choice. Thank you for the knowledge.

bcwsrt

plastic_avatar wrote: »

USB … seldom-used luxury.

heiney9 wrote: »

… If you are hell bent on mostly compressed audio …

That is all.

rebelsoul

Teac ud 301 or ud 501

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rebelsoul wrote: »

Teac ud 301 or ud 501

Those are NEAT!

Going in the list on the high end. Saw a 301 for... I think... $350.

treitz3

heiney9 wrote: »

If you are hell bent on mostly compressed audio, the nicer the gear the worse it sounds.

No If's and's or but's about that one. You can't make chicken soup out of chicken s***!

Tom

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treitz3 wrote: »

You can't make chicken soup out of chicken s***!

Oh, you can!

It tastes terrible, but you can

Good thing my main dish is more palatable =P

I just want the USB for my crummy seldom-accessed unique files and my flac archive. Just want the capability. That's all.

erniejade

Ifi zen might fit the bill.

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erniejade wrote: »

Ifi zen...

I wondered about that one. I'll make sure it's on the list.

DaveHo

SMSL M8. Can be had for much less than your budget. I used one with my headphone rig at work pre COVID. Liked it enough to buy a second one for the bedroom system at home. It really shines with an upgraded power supply. Even with that upgrade it's still under your budget.

Gear has been rotated around the last few years, but I still have one that I use occasionally. Probably looking at $150ish with power supply if you can find one.

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I looked into every single one of your recommendations. EVERY SINGLE ONE!

I did something that ended up making sense to me. Specifically, for me and my future plans:

Two entry DACs to start

My thrifting is making up for mah obligations, so I was able to spend $324 in toral.

I got an SMSL D-6 ($161) and a Topping E50 ($163), both new, both shipped and tax included, from the same distributor in China (the D-6 via Amazon, the E50 via AliExpress).

I'll compare them on 3 points:

- AKM vs ESS

and

- which dac do I like better, subjectively, for sound

and

- which I like using more.

Then I'll either:

- keep the one I like most and add the other to the stereo I'm putting together for my Dad (unless he says don't bother, then I'll sell the unwanted one)

or

- sell both and buy something like the tube one Heiney suggested (I reaaaaally like that one on paper), a Gustard, a Sabaj, maybe a Geshelli (but man... I want a remote).

So, I get to learn something new, from the ground up, again! This will be a good time.

I'll report back once they're here in 3 weeks or so

On sale:

S.M.S.L D-6 Dual AK4493s Chip Bluetooth 5.1 LDAC Audio DAC DSD512 PCM 768kHz 32Bit CK-03 Clock Moudule 6.35mm TRS*2 Balanced Output Type C to Type C USB RCA Decoder with Remote Control (Black) https://a.co/d/1DL3Rlo

On sale, and there are coupons you can click on to get the total on this next one down below $163 like I did:

US $175.12 12％ Off | TOPPING E50 MQA Decoder ES9068AS 32Bit/768kHz DSD512 DAC with Remote Control
https://a.aliexpress.com/_mOrQOHk

heiney9

At that price point I doubt they have the innards to really differentiate between the 2 chips sets. But, it's your journey so enjoy.

IMO, you'd have been better off taking the sum total and adding a hundo for a single, better designed unit......but see above.

The specs you are quoting mean very little if you don't know how the chipsets are employed in the design.....but again see above.

Just adding my .02c

H9

The original Eastern Electric Mini Max dac (tube optional) will be so far above the 2 you are trying. Not even in the same galaxy.

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@heiney9 You're right in spirit. Absolutely.

I ordered the D-6 because I was being responsible and thinking I'd pass it to my Dad and get something back in that $300+ range in a few months.

BUT! A few days later I suddenly had an extra $150 come to me, I got a notification about the E50, and thought 'Well, let's make some lemonade!'.

I'm really excited about it. It's a win for me.

I'll learn, have a baseline, and I can hold out and have May-August to find the right upgrade

I'm out just a few bucks (if that) if I sell, and I'm starting back at $300.

I am enamored with the Eastern. It's at the top of my 'Next Step' list.

Gardenstater

That Eastern Electric Mini Max is interesting but I hope they have gotten past that USB restriction of 16/44.1. If not that'd be a deal breaker for me.

heiney9

Gardenstater wrote: »

That Eastern Electric Mini Max is interesting but I hope they have gotten past that USB restriction of 16/44.1. If not that'd be a deal breaker for me.

They have with (2) later versions. I was staying within his budget.

I'd take a really well designed 16/44.1 over a cheapo dac that does higher resolution any day. A poorly implemented high resolution dac won't beat out a well designed 16/44.1 Cost = quality, at some point they have to cut corners. Inexpensive USB dac's can leave a lot to be desired.

I don't use USB, but if I did the Mini Max Plus will do 16-32bit 32KHz - 192KHz and it's asynchronus. The Supreme does DSD.

I'm looking to trade up to a Supreme, but they don't come up for sale that often.

H9

Clipdat

plastic_avatar wrote: »

S.M.S.L D-6 Dual AK4493s Chip Bluetooth 5.1 LDAC Audio DAC DSD512 PCM 768kHz 32Bit CK-03 Clock Moudule 6.35mm TRS*2 Balanced Output Type C to Type C USB RCA Decoder with Remote Control (Black)

Curious to hear what you think of this one. I use an RME ADI-2 DAC on my PC setup, which uses the AKM4490 chip, and I think it sounds excellent. I've gotten a lot of musical enjoyment from it.

plastic_avatar

Is that the current $1300 model?

It looks like a really neat unit.

[goes to read more]

Clipdat

RME started out with the AKM chips, went to ESS because of the fire, and now might be back to AKM but I haven't been keeping up.

plastic_avatar

I didn’t do an ABx, yet.

BUT.

I did a quickie AB: Listened to songs twice, took notes, listened to another song, order of E50 and D-6 changed (or not!), rinse, repeat.

Going to go through it again, swap w/ my daughter as the listener, and I’ll be the driver.

Here are my 2 big preliminary take-aways:

- I couldn’t tell, honestly, which dac was which based on sound qualities.

Seriously, both dacs sounded so similar when switching back and forth and writing notes, I couldn’t tell you which was which based on that.

Everything sounded excellent. Much better than my CD player’s dac, and waaaaay better than the WiiM Mini.

- There was a difference in the placement and presentation of instruments and voices across the soundstage.

Keep in mind, I’m using my modded Polk SDA-1C speakers. My thought is, because they amplify the stereo effect, and changes in the balance/strength of elements will be more noticeable than on plain ‘ol’ speakers, something in either the processing, decoding, output, or even the difference between ESS and AKM, might be heard here and by ye olde stereo-only.

I (very simply) mapped out what I heard where, how the sounds moved, relative sizes, stuff like that. I didn’t expect any difference in that part. However, there was a difference.

Seriously, sound quality was great​​​​

I doubt I could tell them apart based on how the individual elements sounded.

Call me a believer in the great measurement continuum on Audio Science Review for at least these 2 dacs.

Honestly, when compared, the sound placement and presentation varied

Now, will my daughter hear the same things…

My overlayed notes​

They’re just placement of sounds, how forward or back they are, relative sizes, and what direction the sounds emanate from or sound like they’re pointed.

I used separate docs for each test. After I was done, I changed the ink color for the D-6 and merged those sketches with the E50’s.

D-6 is orange, E50 is black.

The important things for me are the similarities and differences in placement and direction.

I’ll translate what it means to me later.

I’m curious if other SDA listeners experience anything similar between dacs.