Wanted: Information

fmlondon

I am interested in an antiquated system of stereo radio known as simulcast, which broadcast one channel on AM and the other on FM. It was, I think, introduced some time in the 1950s and lasted until multiplex FM stereo was approved in 1961.

Can anyone tell me, or provide a source for, information on this system? I know it was not particularly widespread, would anyone know a list of stations which broadcast simulcast?

Thank you!

audioluvr

Uh...

SeleniumFalcon

I would suggest visiting this website and use the search facility, enter "simulcast" and it will find lots of references:

https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Audio-Magazine.htm

mhardy6647

@SeleniumFalcon's advice is spot on. I'd suggest starting with Audio Magazine and search 1950s and 60s. The era of simulcast AM-FM stereo radio was pretty brief.
https://worldradiohistory.com/Archive-All-Audio/Audio-Magazine.htm


Alternatively, of course, you can search the entire "audio" subsection, or other radio and/or technical sections of that amazing, encyclopedic site (e.g., the hobbyist electronics subsection).



It was simple enough -- one channel broadcast on an AM station and the other on an FM station. The only 'trick' was either a tuner with two completely separate AM and FM sections (or two tuners!) -- and AM sections with the widest bandwidth possible (realistically, to about 7 or 8 kHz before rolling off appreciably).

Some stereo integrated amplifiers (the EICO ST-40 and ST-70, for example) were designed with AM-FM simulcast stereo in mind.

Fun fact, my father engineered (or at least always claimed to have engineered!) the first simulcast stereo broadcast in Baltimore, MD in the late 1950s, presumably at WITH-AM and FM.
I would think WBAL, having both AM and FM stations in those days, also broadcast at least some simulcast stereo.

This Heathkit tuner has FM MPX stereo, but could also accommodate AM-FM simulcast stereo, e.g.

mhardy6647

@Fmlondon - You also might want to ask at
https://www.audioasylum.com/forums/tuner/bbs.html
and/or
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?forums/tuners.115/
and/or one of the radio subsections at
http://www.videokarma.org/

I believe FMTunerinfo's Bob Fitzgerald is (still) active at both AA and AK.

There are also several antique radio forums on the internet.

mhardy6647

check pp. 45ff of https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Bookshelf-Gernsback/Radiocraft-Technical/GERN-Stereo-How-it-Works-Burstein-1959-Gernsback.pdf

fmlondon

My interest is historical. Simulcasting is like a void I have from a historical perspective. For example, in 1925, electronic recording was introduced. It was not made a big deal by record producers in terms of publicity, because no phonographs were yet available that could make full use of this new format. In December, when the first Panatrope was offered for sale, things began to change. In 1926, when the major companies offered phonographs which could take advantage of the new medium, it was then heavily publicized. The opposite occurred with stereo records. Invented as far back as 1931, it was not available to the public for over 20 years, when cartridges began to appear in high end audio circles but, with no records on which to use them! Cook's stereo records were a different matter, but never achieved widespread acceptance. Only in December of 1957, when the first experimental stereo records were put on sale, did the stereo cartridges, on which to play them, became popular, and then, in 1958, stereo phonographs went on sale.

So, I guess you could say I want to be a fly on the wall in the 1950s to see the growth of the first stereo radio available to the general public. When was it being documented? Not the equipment, but the system itself. Who broadcast it? When? I guess this question became poignant to me when I read an ad for Fisher, in 1958, in which it offered a four-speed automatic stereo phonograph, AM/FM radio, and an RCA color television in the same cabinet. Was the radio in question simulcast? And, of course, I have always wondered how many of these units were produced.

Broadcasting has been documented well since 1900 when Fessenden began his experiments right up to satellite radio. But that little blip, which is nonetheless important in the march to stereo, simulcast, seems to have vanished without trace!!!!

Viking64

You're welcome.

mhardy6647

Fisher and simulcast tuners -- an interesting question.
The early, vacuum tube rectified Fisher 500S, 600, and 800 stereo receivers had separate AM and FM tuners; I presume they allowed simulcast reception.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/fisher/600.shtml
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/fisher/800.shtml



The 600 manual makes it pretty clear that FM-AM simulcast stereo was possible with one.


source: https://www.hifiengine.com/hfe_downloads/index.php?fisher/fisher_600_en.pdf

@fmlondon -- excuse this rather brusque question, but are you real or product of an AI chatbot? Your posts seem kind of... insular. Just curious, is all!

Again, this may not be the best place to be asking.
Either way, spend some time @ worldradiohistory and you'll find -- all kinds of stuff. It's amazing.
Here's an example search strategy, which turns up some useful things.
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/IDX-Tech/search.cgi?zoom_sort=0&zoom_xml=0&zoom_query=stereo+simulcast&zoom_cat[]=-1&zoom_per_page=10
that search turns up, e.g.,
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Bookshelf-Gernsback/Gernsback-80Stereo-How-It-Works-Burstein.pdf

EDIT: I mean... google turns up stuff like this:

https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/roots-of-radio/how-fm-stereo-came-to-life
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/history_about_broadcast_amfm_stereo_in_the_usa.html

newbie308

mhardy6647 wrote: »

Fisher and simulcast tuners -- an interesting question.
The early, vacuum tube rectified Fisher 500S, 600, and 800 stereo receivers had separate AM and FM tuners; I presume they allowed simulcast reception.

https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/fisher/600.shtml
https://www.hifiengine.com/manual_library/fisher/800.shtml



The 600 manual makes it pretty clear that FM-AM simulcast stereo was possible with one.


source: https://www.hifiengine.com/hfe_downloads/index.php?fisher/fisher_600_en.pdf

@fmlondon -- excuse this rather brusque question, but are you real or product of an AI chatbot? Your posts seem kind of... insular. Just curious, is all!

Again, this may not be the best place to be asking.
Either way, spend some time @ worldradiohistory and you'll find -- all kinds of stuff. It's amazing.
Here's an example search strategy, which turns up some useful things.
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/IDX-Tech/search.cgi?zoom_sort=0&zoom_xml=0&zoom_query=stereo+simulcast&zoom_cat[]=-1&zoom_per_page=10
that search turns up, e.g.,
https://worldradiohistory.com/BOOKSHELF-ARH/Bookshelf-Gernsback/Gernsback-80Stereo-How-It-Works-Burstein.pdf

EDIT: I mean... google turns up stuff like this:

https://www.radioworld.com/columns-and-views/roots-of-radio/how-fm-stereo-came-to-life
https://www.radiomuseum.org/forum/history_about_broadcast_amfm_stereo_in_the_usa.html

They absolutely did! I have that very tuner in the picture, and had one opportunity to play with simulcast reception since the local sports station broadcasts on both WIP AM 1060 and 94.1FM in the Philly PA area. In the end, it was easier to purchase a separate multiplexer and listen to FM stereo. I love this tuner because now I'm 1.5 hours away from Philly and I can still tune in stations with this tuner that I can't with anything digital.

msg

^^^ @newbie308 - good thing you quoted that post directly above yours. I probably wouldn't have had enough context to fully understand your response, otherwise

Viking64

msg wrote: »

^^^ @newbie308 - good thing you quoted that post directly above yours. I probably wouldn't have had enough context to fully understand your response, otherwise

I had to quote this and add a laughing emoji because my "LOL" of the quoted post may not have been adequate.

mhardy6647

I will resist the temptation to quote the whole danged thread in reply.

For now.

OleBoot

I wonder who holds the record for the longest post.

audioluvr

OleBoot wrote: »

I wonder who holds the record for the longest post.

@treitz3 has my vote. @mhardy6647 trailing second but you just never know what in store for the future.

pitdogg2

audioluvr wrote: »

OleBoot wrote: »

I wonder who holds the record for the longest post.

@treitz3 has my vote. @mhardy6647 trailing second but you just never know what in store for the future.

Highly doubtful, but nice try😉

audioluvr

Help me out here. @Jstas ?

newbie308

mhardy6647 wrote: »

I will resist the temptation to quote the whole danged thread in reply.

For now.

I'LL NEVER DO IT AGAIN...

pitdogg2

audioluvr wrote: »

Help me out here. @Jstas ?

I'd think that @DarqueKnight would be a better contender. Back when Ray was more dedicated to audio his testing post were long and very informative.

audioluvr

True but those were more of an R&D thesis than comments in a discussion.

mrbigbluelight

But they were still posts.

Parts 1 through 6, typical, because if DK posted it all in one single post the internet would slow down and then there would be a lot of complaints.

DK longest, followed by Jstas, then by Mr. Hardy
All very good and all very informative which, most importantly, allows me to continue on my path of laziness. 👍🤗