Shielded Ethernet cable suggestions to cure ground loop like hum

heiney9

Currently running a Bluesound Node 3. I feel the very best digital transmission over Ethernet is better than wireless. My problem is the wireless router is about 25-30' from the Bluesound Node 3 in my main rig.

I recently purchased a well reviewed and well built 30' Ethernet cable from Amazon (inexpensive). I plugged it in and got a hum, like a ground loop hum out of one speaker. I was really perplexed since this is digital transmission.

So my questions are who makes a reasonably priced well shielded Ethernet cable at about 30' and secondly why would this ground loop like hum be present. The E cable does lay parallel over I/C and power cables.

I need some ideas as well as vendors that sell a heavily shielded Ethernet cable in a 30' length. I am assuming better shielding will solve my issue. A search on Amazon specifically for "shielded Ethernet cable" bring up thousands with no rhyme or reason as to how or if they are more shielded than a "normal" E cable. Am willing to spend up a bit, but I'm not paying several hundred.

H9

VR3

30 ft is pretty long.... Anyway to move your modem closer? There are also mesh systems that have direct ethernet outs on the hubs. I ran mine that way before direct wiring from the modem and main hub and the sound quality was very similar.

I am running the audiolund reference ethernet which is heavily shielded and worked great.

Can't explain what would be causing your him but I will say 30 ft is a good distance

Nesmith98

Here is a link to a Blue Jeans Cable article about ethernet cables that is pretty good. They tested quite a few cables and most didn't fair too well. https://bluejeanscable.com/articles/is-your-cat6-a-dog.htm


I bought a roll of Commscope Systimax CAT6a off of eBay and have been slowly but surely running it thru my house. It seems like it's a good USA made cable and I did notice a slight increase in internet speed by using it. Although I have no real way to test it and can't say much for the audio side of things. You may be able to find a Commscope patch chord on eBay pretty cheap.

jdjohn

I bought a custom-made 30' cable from BJC after having drop-outs and buffering issues with store-bought cables, and haven't had any issues since.

Gardenstater

jdjohn wrote: »

I bought a custom-made 30' cable from BJC after having drop-outs and buffering issues with store-bought cables, and haven't had any issues since.

Thank you for that comment. I have started to be plagued with song interruption on Qobuz and TIDAL (less often on tidal) where at some point in the song it skips to the next song! It is intermittent but can put you on edge not knowing when it might happen next. This is with Squeezebox Touch with Logitech Media Server on a PC. I'm questioning my cable and seems like it is something to try, along with swapping in a different SBT that I have.

SCompRacer

BJC tests their CAT cables with a pricey Fluke DTX-1800 cable tester. They provide a report with your purchase. It's like insurance that the cable you buy has met parameters versus untested store bought. It's not just the wires, it is testing termination as well. And the cables won't break your bank. A BJC data cable solved a problem I had exporting DSD from a modded Denon 3910 to my DAC back in 2013.

It you want shielded CAT cable, you need STP or shielded twisted pair. STP has the four individual pairs of wires wrapped in foil followed by a foil wrap over them. Unsure if BJ sells STP CAT cable.

SCompRacer

Here is a what does it mean site explaining cable differences.

https://www.universalnetworks.co.uk/faq/what-does-utp-s-utp-ftp-stp-and-sftp-mean/

A 30 foot SSTP, SFTP Shielded Ethernet Cable on Amazon. Some sellers will show a pic of stripped cable.

https://www.amazon.com/Cable-Matters-Snagless-Shielded-Ethernet/dp/B00HEM5YJE/ref=sr_1_5?crid=3MULFF1RIER3E&keywords=stp+shielded+cat+cable+35+feet&qid=1665851620&s=electronics&sprefix=stp+shieled+cat+cable+35+feet,electronics,87&sr=1-5&th=1

txcoastal1

Brock,
I can order and ship a Belden 25' sheilded CAT6+ directly from my distributers whse. They show 13 in stock in the IL whse...cost plus shipping
C6F1106025

--Ron

DaveHo

Was going to recommend BJC. I use several.
Never an issue. See others beat me to it. 30' really isn't long for an Ethernet cable.

msg

Maybe I missed this detail, but did you try moving the ethernet cable up and away from signal and power cables just as a test? I'm not sure any issue there would present as hum, since it's digital, as you mention. I think it would be more along the lines of packet hiccups, but still doesn't seem likely. This does sound like ground loop.

Is your router a combo unit with the modem and router together with the service coax connected?

Curious to see what you figure out.

pitdogg2

I've seen more ground loops from cable coax than I can count. If you can re-terminate the coax cable and not use the ground shield that should tell you immediately if it's the culprit. If not you can just re-terminate it just like normal and move on.
Just like "directional" RCA interconnect cabled just leave the ground off the end that going into the modem/router should be telling.

invalid

That's strange, I'm running about 60' of CAT5E and have no issues. The brand is Belden.

msg

pitdogg2 wrote: »

I've seen more ground loops from cable coax than I can count. If you can re-terminate the coax cable and not use the ground shield that should tell you immediately if it's the culprit. If not you can just re-terminate it just like normal and move on.
Just like "directional" RCA interconnect cabled just leave the ground off the end that going into the modem/router should be telling.

I agree. Coax was what casied mine.
If the hum is present without playing music, and if this ethernet cable is connected directly to a combo modem/router, simple disconnect of the coax and check for hum at the speaker would determine as well.

msg

*casied = caused when penned by mobile device keyboard without wearing glasses.

pitdogg2

🥸🥸

SCompRacer

msg wrote: »

*casied = caused when penned by mobile device keyboard without wearing glasses.

Glad it wasn't the urban meaning.... "If you have had someone lie right to your face, been completely foiled, fooled and left wondering what happened, then you my friend have been Casie'd."

msg

Insightful and LOL

WTF is Brock?!?
Someone needs to punch him in the nuts.

heiney9

I already sent the E cable back since it was an Amazon purchase. I'm not quite getting the relation to coax cable people are mentioning. My modem and router are separate units, albeit they sit close together.

It was the weirdest sound to hear what sounds to me like a ground loop hum when the E cable was plugged into the Node 3 considering it's just packets of digital information. Music would play over the top of it, but it seemed to lose some dynamics. The hum was analog and I hope my unit isn't defective???

Didn't matter what input I used on the pre-amp or volume setting, the hum was constant (out of 1 channel). I tore the rig apart thinking I have a bad MIT Shotgun IC (because that's what it sounded like). I even swapped in some older MIT T2 cables to eliminate a possible faulty IC. Same hum with different MIT cables.

Disconnected the E cable the hum stopped, configured the Node 3 for wireless and it has performed flawlessly for weeks........not a single hiccup or dropped signal. I'd prefer Ethernet, but so far wireless is working perfectly. I'll try the Belden shielded and then the BJC shielded if that doesn't work.

H9

heiney9

NM, still researching

VR3

DIGITAL CABLES MATTER.

It's not just 1s and 0s.

The end!

heiney9

My comment about the digital packets was in reference to getting an analog hum over a digital cable. I am going to try what Rich (SCompRacer) suggested. An SFTP Cat6 cable from Amazon. Amazon has a great, easy return policy if it doesn't work and I can have it here in a day or 2 with Prime. I still haven't ruled out a defective Bluesound Node 3. That's not very likely, but still possible.

H9

Gardenstater

I know this isn't the same situation, since it is a USB digital cable in this case, but before I got the SBT and I used to connect up to my ifi nano idsd DAC from my computer via USB cable, I used to get 8kHz packet noise spikes that was very annoying and because I was so attuned to hearing it, it destroyed my enjoyment of music (my guests barely heard it, except quiet between songs). It got worse the higher the amplification. Powering the DAC separately and not using the USB for the power did not cure the problem. The noise was coming through the digital wires of the USB because the computer digital output was contaminated with it, for whatever reason.

So digital wires can definitely carry or pickup an analog noise signal, despite the 1s and 0s thing seeming to proclude that. The quality of the source is a factor.

Maybe the router is a factor?

msg

So weird, Brock, I was completely expecting this to be a case of a combo modem/router and coax.
The coax factor - coax is a common cause of ground loop hum, especially in cases where the cable comes into the house with a separate ground than the home main power. In situations like this, if one pulls the coax from the system, the system usually goes quiet.

What I really don't understand is why it was only one speaker. In my case of coax GLH, it was both speakers.

That ethernet cable you had - did it have metal sheathing on the connectors, by chance.
How about the cable from your modem to your router?
Lastly, does your cable come into the house on the same ground as your main power, or its own?

You're still getting nut punched. Just because.

heiney9

Yes, more troubleshooting is in order if the shielded E cable still exhibits the same issues.

Thanks everyone

H9

heiney9

I just received a different Ethernet cable.

Cable Matter brand, shielded (SSTP/SFTP) - braiding and double foil. We'll see if this solves the hum issue. Not sure I'll have time this weekend to install, but I'll report back when I do.

The diameter seems similar to a standard E cable, but it does seem heavier.

H9

treitz3

How long of a distance is your cable ground from the incoming cable connection?

If it's more than 10', consider getting the cable connection moved to where it is close to the whole home ground. (Where it enters the home)

Tom

heiney9

Tom, say that again? The outside cable (junction) box is mounted to the side of the house where the outside power line is grounded and uses the same ground bar. Coax then runs out of the cable junction box about 8' where it enters the house for connection.

I will say I did have my Squeezebox Touch hard wired with Ethernet for awhile, but then went back to wireless. It sat in the exact same spot as the Node 3 does. I had no issues with the SQB.

I am not ruling out a defective Node 3, but I don't think it's very likely........but anything is possible.

I am hoping this better shielded cable will make the difference.

H9

treitz3

My apologies. You are good to go.

Basically, I was saying that you do not want your incoming cable to be (for instance) on the other side of the house, with a long ground to the house ground. You want your cable ground to be as close as possible to the whole home house ground (as the cable enters the home).

I hope this makes sense.

Tom

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

My apologies. You are good to go.

Basically, I was saying that you do not want your incoming cable to be (for instance) on the other side of the house, with a long ground to the house ground. You want your cable ground to be as close as possible to the whole home house ground (as the cable enters the home).

I hope this makes sense.

Tom

No apologies, we are on the same page. Thanks for response.

H9

heiney9

I ordered a new ethernet cable, using @SCompRacer chart he provided. I bought one that is heavilt shielded thinking that was the issue. I didn't install it right away, but it finally did today. Same level of hum.

https://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B00HEM5YJE/ref=ppx_yo_dt_b_asin_title_o00_s00?ie=UTF8&th=1

I moved the e cable away from power cords, no difference. I bypassed the wireless router and plugged directly into the cable modem no difference.

Remembered I had an extra one of these that I use on my home PC..........and the what I assume is a ground loop hum, is gone. I didn't even connect the ground wire.

https://www.l-com.com/surge-protector-tripp-lite-premium-rj45-network-surge-suppressor?gclid=CjwKCAiA2rOeBhAsEiwA2Pl7Q_gocw3_wfQBrMOQdaJFRCC61UnPCKN4Nv-gOaVPurVYF2CsqX6myRoCzXoQAvD_BwE



WTF is going on here? Why would 2 different ethernet cables exhibit the same issue?

I'll be doing some critical listening to see the Tripplite in the mix makes an audible difference.

SMH......I've never ever had any ground loop issues. On a digital transmission cable no less.

H9

heiney9

No other feedback?

Not sure I want yet another connection in the line if I don't need it.

H9