Center seems "weak"

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French_guy
French_guy Posts: 338
in Speakers
Hello
I'm using a Yamaha TSR700 in 3.1 configuration (RTiA5 and CSiA4)
I can't get the right "feeling" from the center. I mean dialogues seem always weak, and I don't have the home theater experience
I know the CSiA6 would be better, but is there another center from the more recent Polk series that would be better?
Thanks
RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
No surround...yet
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  • tonyb
    tonyb Posts: 32,906
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    Did you try adjusting the center volume in the receivers settings ?
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,369
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    The CSiA4 should blend well with the RTiA5 if the speakers are physically set up well without obstructions. Sometimes the physical setup can make a center speaker sound hollow.

    The channels should also be set up in the receiver so their levels are balanced. Can you post a photo to show what the setup for the front speakers looks like?

    I would say the CSiA4 is the appropriate speaker for the RTiA5.
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    (RTiA5 and CSiA4) - Can anyone confirm that these speakers are timbre matched?

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,795
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    Yes
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    Thanks. If that's the case, either check for a blown tweeter/driver or check the settings in your receiver.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,795
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    treitz3 wrote: »
    Thanks. If that's the case, either check for a blown tweeter/driver or check the settings in your receiver.

    Tom

    10 to 1 he never ran the calibration program.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    Well, I am a little confused. Either he hasn't updated his signature or I am looking at the wrong model. He listed his gear as having a Yamaha TSR700, which after looking it up, is a 7.1 channel receiver.

    Yet, in his signature, he states that he is still looking for a receiver.

    But I am betting you are correct. The specs show that all channels receive 100w/channel and no reduction of power to the center, so either there is an issue with the center speaker or exactly what you said. It could be something as simple as the center channel volume being set lower than the rest of the system but that's for him to discover.....or come back with more questions/clarity after reviewing the settings.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
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    Emlyn wrote: »
    The CSiA4 should blend well with the RTiA5 if the speakers are physically set up well without obstructions. Sometimes the physical setup can make a center speaker sound hollow.

    The channels should also be set up in the receiver so their levels are balanced. Can you post a photo to show what the setup for the front speakers looks like?

    I would say the CSiA4 is the appropriate speaker for the RTiA5.

    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    dxh9y6xxe2p0.png

    There ya' go. A bigger shot of the jpeg...

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,369
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    That looks like a good setup physically. Doing an auto calibration should make the soundstage seamless. The CSiA6 might fit in that space but unfortunately the RTiA series sound character isn't really close to anything new Polk has now. I would suggest the CSiA4 is the better match for the receiver's output. If there is a good subwoofer in the system all of the speakers set with the crossover at 80 Hz may help.

    Acoustically the room looks pretty "lively" with a lot of reflecting surfaces from the windows, TV, and flooring. The RTiA lineup is known to be bright and the Yamaha receiver may accentuate that too.

    A speaker that would fit there would be the R400 from the Reserve series but that may lead to wanting the matching main speakers in the Reserve line too and a new receiver to drive them with and maybe a separate amp...and so on.

    :)
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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
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    I did run YPAO, and everything was pretty much at the same level
    But I felt I had to increase the center a lot more to have to right "feeling" (something like +10db....seems way too much)
    I will have to look more in details at the setup
    For the subwoofer, I have one but nothing fancy (and old Jamo SW 410E)
    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    What source (or sources) are you using?

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,560
    edited September 2022
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    You may need to run it a little hot. The room and distance you are sitting from it could have it getting lost in the mix so to speak. If it not pulled to the front of the cabinet do so. Sometimes it can make a big difference not having that tabletop reflection point.
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,795
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    F1nut wrote: »
    10 to 1 he never ran the calibration program.

    Ha, I would have lost that bet.

    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • TennMan
    TennMan Posts: 1,264
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    Check to make sure the center speaker isn't wired out of phase. When you ran calibration it should have told you if it's out of phase but sometimes it doesn't.
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,020
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    I've found with Yamaha, running the calibration with the main seat and the seat directly right and left makes a solid difference.

    But I usually boost the center and surround regardless, like a db or two but definitely not 10
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,560
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    TennMan wrote: »
    Check to make sure the center speaker isn't wired out of phase. When you ran calibration it should have told you if it's out of phase but sometimes it doesn't.

    IME I've had the Yamaha YPAO tell me a speaker is out of phase when it is hooked up correctly.
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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
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    treitz3 wrote: »
    Well, I am a little confused. Either he hasn't updated his signature or I am looking at the wrong model. He listed his gear as having a Yamaha TSR700, which after looking it up, is a 7.1 channel receiver.

    Yet, in his signature, he states that he is still looking for a receiver.

    But I am betting you are correct. The specs show that all channels receive 100w/channel and no reduction of power to the center, so either there is an issue with the center speaker or exactly what you said. It could be something as simple as the center channel volume being set lower than the rest of the system but that's for him to discover.....or come back with more questions/clarity after reviewing the settings.

    Tom

    Sorry for the confusion......I haven't updated my signature !
    I bought the Yamaha at Costo at a very good price and thought "why not, let's see how it performs"
    Didn't have much time to "play" with it until recently though
    I will run the calibration 1 more time and post a picture of the results
    I will also check the wiring, but I'm pretty sure the 3 speakers are properly wired

    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
    edited September 2022
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    treitz3 wrote: »
    What source (or sources) are you using?

    Tom

    Xbox One S for 4k discs
    Fire Stick 4k for streaming (Netflix, Amazon, etc...)
    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,316
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    Hmmm, those sources shouldn't cause any issues. Is there any difference in what you hear out of the center channel when going from one device to another? (Watch the same movie, concert or show when comparing) If there isn't, then we can rule this out as being part of the issue.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,369
    edited September 2022
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    It's not a speaker sensitivity issue since the RTiA5 is 90 dB and the CSiA4 is 89 dB. Very close to each other.

    I'd always consider getting an SPL meter out and doing a reality check manually on speaker levels (C-weighting) after running an auto calibration. It's also true that there aren't ironclad rules that say an owner can't raise an individual speaker level at any point they want to. Many people boost the center speaker a couple dB above the mains manually to better hear dialogue.

    I still consider an SPL meter mandatory for home theater setup.
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,560
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    I still consider an SPL meter mandatory for home theater setup.

    This 100% ^^^^

    When running the room correction software on a receiver your room needs to be tomb quiet. If my ac/heat kicked on in the middle of the process it messed up the whole thing. I would turn off EVERYTHING fridge, ac/heat, all aquarium filters etc. Even the slightest noise affects it.
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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
    edited September 2022
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    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    I still consider an SPL meter mandatory for home theater setup.

    This 100% ^^^^

    When running the room correction software on a receiver your room needs to be tomb quiet. If my ac/heat kicked on in the middle of the process it messed up the whole thing. I would turn off EVERYTHING fridge, ac/heat, all aquarium filters etc. Even the slightest noise affects it.

    Any tips on how to turn off the wife???? :D:D:D
    Just kidding......the house was really quiet when I ran YPAO
    I will try again though
    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,795
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    I still consider an SPL meter mandatory for home theater setup.

    Absolutely!!! I view the calibration program as establishing a base line, which needs to be tweaked by an SPL meter and your ears.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
    edited September 2022
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    I ran YPAO one more time (single measurement)
    This is what I get....not sure if I should leave LCR as large though !


    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 28,020
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    What sub are you running

    I usually run my speakers as small and set to 60hz
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
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  • Emlyn
    Emlyn Posts: 4,369
    edited September 2022
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    Looks like the volume control on the subwoofer might be turned up too high. On most subwoofers the dial doesn't need to be more than half way. There's a 17.5 dB imbalance in the system that YPAO seems to detect there. In some receivers the digital volume control may limit max output when things are that far off kilter.

    I'd dial that down and set the speakers to small. Either that or disconnect the subwoofer altogether and try just the mains and center by themselves to see how it sounds.
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  • gp4jesus
    gp4jesus Posts: 1,969
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    Late com` in’ to the party…
    treitz3 wrote: »
    (RTiA5 and CSiA4) - Can anyone confirm that these speakers are timbre matched?

    Tom
    they should be, they ARE members of the RTi A series.

    Long shot: something is wrong inside the ‘A4 center?


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  • boston1450
    boston1450 Posts: 7,456
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    ^^^^ I wondered that also. Maybe test center on another channel & see if it follows. Does OP know history of this center speaker OR center channel on receiver?
    ..
    ..
    ..
    Randy/Maine
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  • French_guy
    French_guy Posts: 338
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    boston1450 wrote: »
    ^^^^ I wondered that also. Maybe test center on another channel & see if it follows. Does OP know history of this center speaker OR center channel on receiver?

    I bought the RTiA5 and the CSiA4 brand new, directly from Polk (it was end of 2014)
    RTiA5 + CSiA4 + Jamo SW410E
    Yamaha TSR-700 (equivalent to RX V6A)
    No surround...yet
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