I want to talk about this review as it really struck a nerve.

mantis

https://youtu.be/8Pow6xA6ssc

Most of you know I have been in this business for over 20 Plus years. When he started to talk about his channel and the things he would like to say and can't which could hurt his channel and his ability to get more gear for review etc. I get that deeper than most of you could understand unless you're in the business and see some of the things I have seen.

The whole thing about wanting to own a speaker or any gear with validation is a huge part of this hobby. When a speaker or any piece of gear comes along that performs way above it's price point is rare.

The polk Reserve R700 speakers as well as the entire line is getting very high praises. I really like that as I have been a polk fan since the 70's. I grew up on polks and have had them in my family forever. I still own many polk speakers around my house even though I have not had a main system polk system since I owned the LSI series when they came out way back in the early 2000's.

Anyway I have not heard these speakers yet but I plan on figuring out a way to. If any of you live anywhere near Philadelphia , Princeton , actually anywhere in NJ or South Eastern PA, hit me up if you own any Reserve speakers, I'd love to check them out.

I wish certain people still worked at Polk Audio so I could call in some favors to send me some of or all of this line for me to demo and check out the 3 finishes.

Toolfan66

Very interesting watch, thanks for posting that Dan.

I have to say, how can the white be discontinued on these, they are super gorgeous IMO.

Polk seems to be knocking it out of the park here as of late, I really need to get my ears on these..

F1nut

That's the same guy who couldn't wrap his head around why the interconnect cable was needed with the L800.

I've watched a few of his other reviews and just shook my head. I'm not sorry to say the guy is clueless and his listening room is about as bad as they come. I'll never watch another one.

mhardy6647

I hate video reviews, full stop.
I like to read reviews.
The worst trend are these guys who have a website, publish some data and/or comments, but then say something like "watch my video to see what I thought about these".
Of course, they get paid for clicks on the video.

Sort of on topic, there was an interesting post by Stereophile's Kal Rubinson at AA recently that presents a believable reason why we see so few negative reviews in places like... well... Stereophile.

https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/37/376207.html
Here's a (the) relevant snippet.

I accept products for review only if they appeal to me and that means that I have screened them to be likely to please me.

PS Kal Rubinson is one of the more interesting and, perhaps, honorable of the "big name" audio magazine reviewers. He straddles the objective & subjective camps, and participates rather visibly on both AA and ASR (not quite the two extremes... but close!). He is big on multichannel and new technology, though

mhardy6647

Oh.
The above-mentioned AA thread is interesting, I'd opine, and perhaps even relevant to this one. John Marks, of "Esperanto Audio" (?) in Rhode Island, offers "A Proposed Scoring Grid for Subjective Loudspeaker Evaluation"
https://www.audioasylum.com/audio/speakers/messages/37/376159.html

If'n any of youse get bored, you might even wanna take a look at it.



I think speaker evaluation is a lot like tasting wine, tea -- or beer. It can be done in an entirely subjective way... but it's also possible to use all sorts of quantitative and qualitative analysis tools (refractometer, pH meter, gas chromatograph/mass spectrometer, ion chromatography, e.g., in the case of wine) to objectively evaluate the quality of a product. Indeed, even the artisanal vintners do this, and use all of these tools (in house or via contract labs) to judge the quality of their wines as they make them. And, yeah, at some point after the wine's released to the market, The Wine Advocate or whomever give it a "96"

VR3

Audio is such a personal thing that means different things for different people.

We have local gatherings here listening to multiple systems in a day. All three systems sound great but incredibly different.

I think it's really impossible to say a certain product is bad per say. It may not align to your taste, but bad. Definitely subjective.

treitz3

Agreed with the exclusion of "I think it's really impossible to say a certain product is bad per say."

I have heard some bad products, I know you have too.

Here's an example of one of mine that I have ran across - You couldn't pay me to listen to it (Or an MBL speaker for that matter) https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/177185/completely-disappointed-in-this-24k-speaker-shakes-head/p1

Tom

pitdogg2

All three systems sound great but incredibly different.

In that same breath, I've heard what I thought were excellent systems at first listen only to find them very fatiguing in the long haul.

treitz3

None of these 3 systems are fatiguing. That, you can take to the bank.

But, we are swaying off topic here guys...

Now back to our regularly scheduled programming.

Tom

mhardy6647

pitdogg2 wrote: »

All three systems sound great but incredibly different.

In that same breath, I've heard what I thought were excellent systems at first listen only to find them very fatiguing in the long haul.

"Showroom sound" -- Radio Shack (e.g.) was renowned for it
That said, I think that this approach is still practiced even in the modern era...lookin' at you, Bowers & Wilkins.

VR3

When I heard the Uber large horn speakers in Singapore... I left that demo thinking... Wow! That sounded terrible! But I also realized the potential appeal for that sound as well.

There is a plethora of people who enjoy music and hifi audio and perhaps never even sit in the so called sweet spot. They have no care for stereo imaging etc

So again, nothing is really "bad" overall but may be bad to your particular journey

SIHAB

"The perfect is the enemy of the good" - Cafe Voltaire
That is the point the reviewer raises and one I struggle with
when chasing audio. I think I am losing the race with time.

I was "" close in landing the R700's when Polk generously offered the F&F.
I don't care for white speakers but these I would own.

Does anyone own these and felt the need to upgrade the outriggers?

I think the fact that the R700 are easy to place and sound great in demanding
rooms says more about the designers at Polk than the reviewer. The fact that
the reviewer could make them sound good w/ A/V receivers say a lot as well.

I enjoy reading Kal Rubinson's articles and posts and think his approach and
tastes in equipment are close to mine. (at least per the box in Stereophile)

heiney9

Maybe a particular piece of gear isn't bad per se, but over hyped and then the owners buy into the hype and start pushing the piece or brand as the best out there. I won't name names, I think we all know who I mean, it rhymes with demotiva.

It is all subjective and I feel for anyone to really comment they need to be exposed to more than a few pieces of gear for one's comments to have any real validity. We all have personal preferences about what we like and dislike during our audio journey which doesn't equate to right or wrong.

There are many peoples observations/opinions I trust here because over time you get an idea of that persons view. Other's I don't agree with or have little to no track record or say every piece of gear sounds good, don't factor into my decision process.

There are lots of pieces of gear that are very mediocre and people are fine with the mundane stuff that pretty much doesn't vary in sound a whole lot. There are people who value features and will sacrifice a bit of ultimate sound for said features.

Then there are pieces that truly seem to transcend their brand or their price point or product category. Or small players in a big arena that consistently knock it out of the park but barely anyone knows they exist.

I hope we're not getting to the point where the Reserve series is being over hyped and raising impossible expectations.............I don't think so, but that is bound to happen. One piece that comes to mind from the past is the Toshiba 3910 cdp (I think maybe it was 2910)? That was being hailed as a giant killer. I bought one and was pretty disappointed, but it was probably based on impossible expectations at that point.

The Reserve series is the real deal and definitely worthy of the praise so far. The R200's have exceeded my expectations. So much so that if it weren't for SDA being re-introduced in the L800's, I'd be considering the R700's for my main system and would be completely happy with the choice over the non-SDA Legend series.

H9

treitz3

Did you mean the Denon 2910/3910?

Tom

heiney9

treitz3 wrote: »

Did you mean the Denon 2910/3910?

Tom

No not Denon, but now that you say that.........that's why those model #'s are familiar to me...lol

It was definitely a Toshiba (with all Philips internals, IIRC) player may be 5965? 5965 is tube variant for the 12AU7, so maybe that's not right either???? I'll have to google it.

H9

pitdogg2

YOU're killin me B

mhardy6647

heiney9 wrote: »

Maybe a particular piece of gear isn't bad per se, but over hyped and then the owners buy into the hype and start pushing the piece or brand as the best out there. I won't name names, I think we all know who I mean, it rhymes with demotiva.

Funny - I was thinking it might rhyme with Jeff Mellis Pifty

It is all subjective and I feel for anyone to really comment they need to be exposed to more than a few pieces of gear for one's comments to have any real validity. We all have personal preferences about what we like and dislike during our audio journey which doesn't equate to right or wrong.

There are many peoples observations/opinions I trust here because over time you get an idea of that persons view. Other's I don't agree with or have little to no track record or say every piece of gear sounds good, don't factor into my decision process.

There are lots of pieces of gear that are very mediocre and people are fine with the mundane stuff that pretty much doesn't vary in sound a whole lot. There are people who value features and will sacrifice a bit of ultimate sound for said features.

Then there are pieces that truly seem to transcend their brand or their price point or product category. Or small players in a big arena that consistently knock it out of the park but barely anyone knows they exist.

I hope we're not getting to the point where the Reserve series is being over hyped and raising impossible expectations.............I don't think so, but that is bound to happen. One piece that comes to mind from the past is the Toshiba 3910 cdp (I think maybe it was 2910)? That was being hailed as a giant killer. I bought one and was pretty disappointed, but it was probably based on impossible expectations at that point.

I believe it was the Toshiba SD-3950 DVDP. I have one, but it was a dump find, so I don't feel too bad.
Did you do all of the magical mods that were recommended for it?
The Swenson Mods? The Vinny Mods?
https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=14032.0
https://forums.stevehoffman.tv/threads/whats-the-deal-with-the-toshiba-sd-3950.38266/
https://www.head-fi.org/threads/toshiba-sd-3950-60-swenson-mods.659067/
https://www.diyaudio.com/community/threads/toshiba-3950-vinnie-mods.59111/

SD-39501_zps0f3f7b8b by Mark Hardy, on Flickr

Sort of like those little Pioneer two-ways that were all the rage for a few months. Just tweak them a little bit and... giant killers! Poor man's... umm... Jeff Mellis Pifty.

The Reserve series is the real deal and definitely worthy of the praise so far. The R200's have exceeded my expectations. So much so that if it weren't for SDA being re-introduced in the L800's, I'd be considering the R700's for my main system and would be completely happy with the choice over the non-SDA Legend series.

H9

heiney9

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

The one I had briefly was modded, not by me. It was just the more basic mod, IIRC. I just remember the hype over even the non-modded ones. It just left me flat compared to the external dac I had at the time, GDA 600.

I guess the point to my post was to always manage expectations and not let 100% of the hype get in. I'll be honest, until people here (Polk Fest 2021 people predominately) started to really sing the praises of the R200's, I wasn't even in the market for a brand new bookie. Then the HQ sale came and BAM, I'm so glad I pulled the trigger. I am usually not that spontaneous with a new audio purchase. I do A LOT of research ahead of time, again to help manage expectations.

H9

Toolfan66

When your drunk it all sounds like a hifi system, just crank it past 10..

heiney9

The purchase of the R200's was a great deal (HQ sale).....I think. I ended up buying new stands, a new integrated amp/dac, new USB cable and new power cable and new power conditioning strip to use them in a revamped office rig.....I spent an additional ~$1K after the R200 purchase.

....and eventually I'll upgrade the x-overs, just because.

H9

P.s. To be fair I would have bought the new power conditioning strip regardless of revamping the office rig...lol

mantis

F1nut wrote: »

That's the same guy who couldn't wrap his head around why the interconnect cable was needed with the L800.

I've watched a few of his other reviews and just shook my head. I'm not sorry to say the guy is clueless and his listening room is about as bad as they come. I'll never watch another one.

I haven't watched his L800 review. I'll have to watch it now you brought it up. If I remember correctly , he use to write for one of the magazines back in the day. Sterophile or Home Theater Mag I can't remember I just remember his name. I liked his points on the R700's.

mantis

VR3 wrote: »

Audio is such a personal thing that means different things for different people.

We have local gatherings here listening to multiple systems in a day. All three systems sound great but incredibly different.

I think it's really impossible to say a certain product is bad per say. It may not align to your taste, but bad. Definitely subjective.

I agree man, I think speakers are probably the most personal thing in our hobby.

mantis

Who is caring the Reserve series? Where can you go listen to them? Not that there are so many choices to go to anymore. I hate that.

mhardy6647

heiney9 wrote: »

Yep, that's the one I was referring to.

The one I had briefly was modded, not by me. It was just the more basic mod, IIRC. I just remember the hype over even the non-modded ones. It just left me flat compared to the external dac I had at the time, GDA 600.

I guess the point to my post was to always manage expectations and not let 100% of the hype get in. I'll be honest, until people here (Polk Fest 2021 people predominately) started to really sing the praises of the R200's, I wasn't even in the market for a brand new bookie. Then the HQ sale came and BAM, I'm so glad I pulled the trigger. I am usually not that spontaneous with a new audio purchase. I do A LOT of research ahead of time, again to help manage expectations.

H9

... and your point is an excellent one!
(i.e., I totally agree, FWIW)

I am glad I bought a pair, too.
I think I count as a lifelong Polk fan, and it's just danged nice to see affordable loudspeakers branded "Polk" that deliver tremendous value per buck... just like the good ol' days.

mantis

What finishes have you guys seen in person? How are they? The white might be the best looking color out of all of them and I'm not a big White speaker fan.

mhardy6647

Only the 'wood' finish, which I think looks very good. Way more natural than the Contact Paper look of 1970s "vinyl walnut"

A couple of blow-ups of photos you've already seen, FWIW:

mantis

That looks pretty good for not being real wood. I could make that color work. I'd like to see the White and Black finish. The Black I think is like More Entry level Subwoofer finishes. The White is supposed to be really nice and a Matte like White finish. That's kinda cool but again not really a big white speaker fan especially for movies. I'd prefer the black.

Sigfried

mantis wrote: »

F1nut wrote: »

That's the same guy who couldn't wrap his head around why the interconnect cable was needed with the L800.

I've watched a few of his other reviews and just shook my head. I'm not sorry to say the guy is clueless and his listening room is about as bad as they come. I'll never watch another one.

I haven't watched his L800 review. I'll have to watch it now you brought it up. If I remember correctly , he use to write for one of the magazines back in the day. Sterophile or Home Theater Mag I can't remember I just remember his name. I liked his points on the R700's.

Yeah, thought he did a nice job on the R700 review.