Aperion Audio Super Tweeters or SDA 2BTL upgrade?

sx828RT7s

I think I’m just going to try out the less expensive version of the Aperion super tweeters and see if placing the tweeters on the inner edge or outer edge on the top of the speakers has any effect on the soundstage and/or imaging even though they are not part of the SDA circuit. If I remember there was a CRS model that did have two tweeters in the SDA circuit, but I think some people felt they sounded better disconnected.

Clipdat

Put the cost of the super tweeters toward a new pair of speakers instead of attempting to modify ones that don’t need modifying.

sx828RT7s

@Clipdat …I guess you are right. I really love these speakers as they are to be totally honest. I just feel like I might be missing out on something since I hear people say these tweeters are not that resolving, and I saw the Aperions and put 2+2 together thinking maybe someone on this forum had the same idea and tried them first. I just now finished listening to The Yes Album and I’m amazed at how they sound but at the same time I’m just like can this get better? My room has some weird config, I have done some room treatment and the SDAs just do miracles with soundstage and imaging in my living room. Can you make a recommendation for a next step up? Are SDA SRS like endgame and a big step up from the 2Bs?

Gardenstater

If you did all the basic mods plus the newer "uber mods" (if you will) your speakers would no doubt be resolving as all heck. You could very easily end up spending more than $700 but it is an incremental process and a relatively enjoyable and painless journey. Is that the best path for *you* personally forward? I really don't know. You haven't even really told anybody about your entire system have you? Good luck with whatever you decide.

pitdogg2

Can you make a recommendation for a next step up? Are SDA SRS like endgame and a big step up from the 2Bs?

All depends on room size to be honest. Original SDA SRS wouldn't be on my radar. Many believe that the 2.3tl is the sweet spot of the bigger SRS. If you have the room then look at the SDA SRS 1.2tl.

At this point in the game all will need complete recap and new better resistors.

VR3

Dannie Ritchie has a great video showing why bolting a super tweeter to an existing speaker does more harm than good.

If you feel you are ready to be Dannie Ritchied', he has his own you tube channel gr research

VR3

The idea for ultra high end responses on tweeters is to locate the break up point as far out of the audible range as possible versus just infinite extension.

This is not related to the aforementioned video

BlueFox

He never has stated how this tweeter will be mounted. Will another hole in the baffle be added for it? Will it just sit unenclosed on the top of the speaker? How will it be wired into the circuit?

pitdogg2

Top of cabinets I understood, hooked to binding posts just like old Radio Shack super tweeters. Caps are built-in the enclosure usually.

BlueFox

Thanks. That appears to be a kludge addition. I guess in the dark it won’t matter if it sounds good.

sx828RT7s

I think I’m going to give the upgrades a shot and progress to TL with RDO198 tweeters after all. I just bought an FX Audio Tube 03 preamp and went a little crazy upgrading spending over $200 on upgrades for a $50 device, but the end result is absolutely amazing soundstage and a more analog sound from my Adcom GFA 545. My room is a basic box with a hallway going left and right at the back wall. The hallway extends about 15’ on each side and the room is 15’x 15’ with 9’ ceilings.

Gardenstater

Do you want a system that is good at everything or one that excels at definition and sparkle and imaging? Don't forget cables. Interconnects and speaker cables are pretty effective tone controls.

Maybe a different kind of speaker entirely might be your best path, like Magnepans?

Having said that if I like what I have it would be in my nature to want to find out what they are capable of fully modded.

sx828RT7s

I made my own cables, they are monoprice ofc 12awg*4. I braided all 4 wires terminating 2x2 for an effective gauge of 9awg.

sx828RT7s

As far as the TL upgrade goes, what is the last change to the crossover that requires the tweeters to be swapped to the RDO198s? Start with the caps, then resistors & 198s together? Or is there a specific order? Not sure if there is an existing post that covers this already…

sx828RT7s

@Gardenstater I am using Mogami Amphenol cables from WBC for my preamp (modified FX Tube 03, caps, op amps & tubes) to my Adcom 545, and from my preamp to dac (SMSL M500 mkII unmodified). I usually stream music via usb cable to dac from my iPad. I use Spotify tidal Apple and Amazon music, but find myself using Amazon more and more as the tracks on average sound better (maybe system related?), and they have a pretty amazing catalog of 70’s prog rock. But as far as music goes, I’ve also changed my musical preference as bizarre as it may be, gravitating more to the quality of recording than any particular genre of music.

Gardenstater

sx828RT7s wrote: »

I made my own cables, they are monoprice ofc 12awg*4. I braided all 4 wires terminating 2x2 for an effective gauge of 9awg.

Good starting place but you are in luck because those can really be improved upon greatly. Litz, UPOCC, better dielectrics.....

I would think you'd have a huge improvement if you copied your design but went to UPOCC silver plated wire from DH Labs, even though it is not Litz.


https://silversonic.com/products/hookup-wire/


I just found this new wire by Harmonic Technology which is UPOCC and also Litz, which would be even better and it has a foamed polyethylene dielectric. Unfortunately it only appears to be in smaller gages so far (18awg?) but if you did a braid x 6 you would have a 13awg cable:

https://www.hificollective.co.uk/wire/harmonic-tehnology-litz-wire.html

I love my 4N polyethylene insulated PET polyester dielectric ribbon cables but would like to try something else to compare. Too bad I can't find UPOCC copper foil....

Clipdat

How about Polk Legend L600?

audioluvr

sx828RT7s wrote: »

As far as the TL upgrade goes, what is the last change to the crossover that requires the tweeters to be swapped to the RDO198s? Start with the caps, then resistors & 198s together? Or is there a specific order? Not sure if there is an existing post that covers this already…

Just plan on upgrading the crossovers and tweeters to the RDO-198's at the same time. Do all your internal mods at once.

sx828RT7s

@Gardenstater …wow, those silver sonic wires look really good, I can do short 36” runs for the left and right channel. If I do the same braiding and make two 4x36” for the left and right channel it costs $205. Think that would look pretty interesting too with the black and red housing. This looks like an interesting place to start, without breaking the bank. Many thanks for the info!

sx828RT7s

@Gardenstater …sorry to keep bugging you but I have a quick question before I place my cable order. Do you see any benefit using the 20awg silver-coated Continuous Crystal copper cables for the cable runs inside the speakers themselves, or is this a redundant upgrade?

Gardenstater

sx828RT7s wrote: »

@Gardenstater …sorry to keep bugging you but I have a quick question before I place my cable order. Do you see any benefit using the 20awg silver-coated Continuous Crystal copper cables for the cable runs inside the speakers themselves, or is this a redundant upgrade?

Absolutely there is benefit. I would use the 12awg for the midwoofer and the 14awg for the tweeter however. Make sure it is teflon insulation but I am pretty certain that it is. I would make twisted pairs out of them to reduce inductance. Also make sure you get the 10% off by entering your email when you get the popup.

Another option for the tweeter that would save a *little* money and might present less skin effect would be to use 2 red plus 2 black 18awg for the tweeter and braid them. That would give you 15awg which is fine.

Oh wait, I see that their 18awg is OFC not OCC so scratch that idea. Better to go with the 14awg OCC.

pitdogg2

I completely rewired my SDA 2.3tl's with the silver sonic 14ga. Worth every penny and trust me it cost a pretty penny for both speakers.
In case you didn't see it the make bulk speaker cable as well.
https://silversonic.com/products/bulk-wire-and-cable/bulk-speaker-cable/q-10-4-conductor-speaker-cable/

https://silversonic.com/products/bulk-wire-and-cable/bulk-speaker-cable/t-14-speaker-cable/

sx828RT7s

So cool, thanks guys!

VR3

Dh labs wire is top shelf.

I will say I have avoided silver wiring for internal wiring or jumpers etc. Have to be careful with voicing but with sda sound signatures should be OK

Gardenstater

Other options with teflon insulation are Cardas Litz which is a bit harder to work with and isn't continuous crystal but high purity, and Neotech UP-OCC stranded which is not silver plated. Neotech is more expensive than the DH Labs but has the full Ultra Pure Ohno Continuous Cast designation, which I'm pretty sure is by license.

VR3

The best internal wiring I have found dollar for dollar is the Supra rondo. Extremely neutral in sound character. Ultra flexible. Tin plated so won't oxidize so will last a long time. I just don't think there is a better wire for internal wiring out there and I have tried alot.