Aperion Audio Super Tweeters or SDA 2BTL upgrade?

sx828RT7s

I did a search and was surprised to see there was no mention of anyone using the Alperin Super Tweeter with their SDA’s. Judging by this forum the Achilles heel of the SDA’s (specifically the peerless tweeter models), is the audiophile sparkly high end.

Has anyone out there tried the Aperion Super tweeter option? I am strongly considering them over a full crossover upgrade and tweeter swap.

Many thanks, polkers!

Gardenstater

I don't know where you are getting your info. from but the Peerless tweeter was not found in any SDA models. They had gone to their own tweeter designs before the first SDA rollout.

Over what frequency range do you hope to use the super tweeter for.......8kHz and up........20kHz and up......? I can't see this being better than a tweeter upgrade to RDO-198 and crossover updates, but I would think you would have to do the former first because the super tweeter you are talking about doesn't handle below 8kHz. So maybe I'm just not getting it.....

sx828RT7s

Wow…where are you getting your information from?
Not as if it is relevant at all…
Thank you for the feedback…?

Gardenstater

I should add I get why you might want to experiment with it, but since it doesn't roll off the existing high frequency signal in the existing crossover I don't get why you wouldn't have to upgrade the existing components. How would it *reduce* any perception of existing "sparkliness"? I could see how it might make for a more airy presentation with greater dispersion...perhaps and depending upon the supertweeter attenuation and roll in setting.

sx828RT7s

I guess we have different preferences for spakliness, I’m in the camp of enjoying sparkliness for its contribution to string instruments, and voicing…

Gardenstater

I'm sure everyone does, but it wasn't clear if you were saying you thought the perception was the existing high end presentation of the SDA's was too sparkly or not sparkly enough

Again, I would say experiment away but my 2c is to not do it without upgrading the existing XO and tweeter first. You need to assess how you feel about it from that point forward because upgrading those will effect sparkliness but not just that.

sx828RT7s

I think I should have spent a little more time on my post, as it was not very clear.
The Polk SL2000 H.E. Is known to max out around 12-13khz.
I would probably be looking to crossover the Aperions around the 10khz mark as there is some roll off in this area. So to expand, I am actually looking for sparkle as these tweeters are not what I would call sparkley. Here is a link to the Aperions for a little more detail on there capabilities;

https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/super-tweeter-speaker/products/aperionaudio-planar-magnetic-ribbon-super-tweeter-speaker

I know we are taking hypothetically here as neither you nor I have used these before.
There is a possibility to crossover at 12khz if need be as well as -db level matching control.
I also think it would be interesting to experiment with the placement, and how this could potentially enhance the SDA effect.

sx828RT7s

…forgot to mention, I’m not looking to replace (or disconnect) the tweeters, this would be a supplemental fix.

Gardenstater

Well just to clarify, the SDA 2BTL is one that has had the crossover modified and the tweeter upgraded to RDO-198. Somewhat beside the point and maybe you know that. I have certainly not heard any complaints of tweeter dullness in anybody who has done this, especially when they have also upgraded the internal wiring and binding posts and gotten rid of the polyswitches along with high quality film caps and low self inductance wirewound resistors or the like.

The SL2000 has an infamous *hump* at around 13kHz but it has full extension to 20kHz.

Does the supertweeter and its accompanying attenuation and adjustable "crossover" circuit just add on its output to the existing speaker or does it also incorporate a low pass to the existing speaker? I got the impression it was the former.

BlueFox

sx828RT7s wrote: »

…forgot to mention, I’m not looking to replace (or disconnect) the tweeters, this would be a supplemental fix.

Where would the extra tweeter be installed on the 2B speaker. Also, does the existing cross over need to be modified to support the additional tweeter?

Gardenstater

The freq. response of the SL2000 I posted above is the one before DarqueKnight corrected the 5kHz dip by doing a nearfield measurement. Corrected freq. response:



PS: This was measured with no baffle at all except the tweeter faceplate but the IEC industry standard is to measure with a 4.4ft x 5.4ft panel mounting, believe it or not. https://ampslab.com/blog/2017/09/06/dome-tweeters/

F1nut

The Polk SL2000 H.E. Is known to max out around 12-13khz.

Wrong. There is a +5dB peak in that range, which results in very unpleasant ice pick in the ears type of sound.

I strongly suggest the RD0198 tweeter and crossover upgrades.

F1nut

I also think it would be interesting to experiment with the placement, and how this could potentially enhance the SDA effect.

First, SDA is not an effect and second the high frequencies are not part of the SDA circuit, so it would be impossible for the super tweeter to enhance anything SDA related.

F1nut

I’m in the camp of enjoying sparkliness for its contribution to string instruments, and voicing…

You should consult a frequency chart as strings and voices basically fall into the midrange.

Toolfan66

This post comes off as trollish IMO. But hey what do I know, I just try to fit in with the cool kids..

sx828RT7s

@Toolfan66 …so it’s not just me…they should rename
Polk … to Karen

sx828RT7s

@F1nut I was hoping to get some legit advice here, not argue semantics but off to the races;

“The voice can and typically does make sounds at very high frequencies in the “treble” audio range (from about 6,000 Hz up to 20,000 Hz) in the form of vocal overtones and noise from consonants…leaving it up to your brain to “fill in” if you need it.” -ASA Acoustical Society of America

sx828RT7s

@F1nut

How Many Harmonics Are There On A Piano?

Changes in tone quality from bass to treble in the piano strings A string has about 50-60 harmonics, with its frequency rising to about 5,000 Hz in the bass section. As well as 20-30 harmonic lines and lasting from about 7,000 Hz to about 16,000 Hz at the middle region, these string sutras have quite the spectral performance.

Gardenstater

Agreed in that harmonics are definitely a major part in what we hear. Seems time to post this again because it is so graphically informative. Violin harmonics and cymbals harmonics go very high. Except for the Picolo, Harp, and Pipe Organ, the tweeters are ONLY handling harmonics.

But you haven't answered our key questions regarding your proposed supertweeter and whether or not it has a low pass filter or does it just *add on top of* your existing speaker's output.

Also, room acoustics and one's personal hearing level have a great deal to do with this and nobody can tell you how you want your system to hear. That has to be an individual decision/experiment. I have no problem with someone thinking outside the box at all.

sx828RT7s

A very basic definition frequency and harmonics to understand instrument timbre;

https://www.physicsclassroom.com/class/sound/Lesson-4/Fundamental-Frequency-and-Harmonics

sx828RT7s

@Gardenstater

Wow…that is very cool!
I’m assuming I’m talking to another musician 😉

sx828RT7s

Going to repost the link to the super tweeter;

https://www.aperionaudio.com/collections/super-tweeter-speaker/products/copy-of-aperion-audio-aluminum-ribbon-super-tweeter-speaker-pair-gloss-black

sx828RT7s

There is a crossover with 5 settings, OFF, 8khz, 10khz, 12khz, 14khz, 16khz

Gardenstater

sx828RT7s wrote: »

There is a crossover with 5 settings, OFF, 8khz, 10khz, 12khz, 14khz, 16khz

Yeah but a true *crossover* would be a low pass filter AND a high pass filter and they would blend at those frequencies. The question here is do you connect the speaker outputs of your amplifier first to the super tweeter and from there to your main speakers, which is what you would do with a true crossover, or not. *Someone* needs to read the manual for that super tweeter

sx828RT7s

The super tweeter is connected to the binding posts on the speaker. Since it is a super tweeter with frequencies up to 40khz so high pass only. This is really meant to complement an existing speakers top end not replace it.

Gardenstater

sx828RT7s wrote: »

The super tweeter is connected to the binding posts on the speaker. Since it is a super tweeter with frequencies up to 40khz so high pass only. This is really meant to complement an existing speakers top end not replace it.

That is exactly what I thought but that confirms it.

audioluvr

sx828RT7s wrote: »

The super tweeter is connected to the binding posts on the speaker. Since it is a super tweeter with frequencies up to 40khz so high pass only. This is really meant to complement an existing speakers top end not replace it.

Sounds like you got it all figured out. Why post here for advice? By the way, anything over 19khz is useless unless you are trying to pi$$off the neighborhood dogs.

Toolfan66

I

sx828RT7s wrote: »

@Toolfan66 …so it’s not just me…they should rename
Polk … to Karen

Throwing the over played 'Karen' lingo out there, look at you go with your suspenders, high water bell bottoms, and converse tennis shoes. Did the teacher let you out of your chair to scribble that on the board?

Where's Waldo??



I will admit those tweeters look interesting, but not for $700 bones, and I highly doubt they would be great for SDA's. IMO if your speakers need to add those tweeters, wouldn't the money spent on them be better suited to put toward a better pair of speakers, and sell what you have??

By the way I am just having a little fun with your Karen statement, Have a great day..

sx828RT7s

I appreciate all the advice here and gentle ribbing, from everyone but…

@F1nut …wow…rather than give me any advice, you tried to undermine the logic behind my question by attempting to invalidate my statements…then when I support my statements with facts you are more interested in proving that you are right, than providing any helpful advice and call me a Bozo 🤣

This is audio…at the very best a fun way to waste time…fun, do you remember that?…honestly I’m a pretty big Polk fanboy, but it’s kind of sad how the president of a club representing Polk (a brand that is all about audiophile accessibility) treats someone asking for help.

You need to learn Mudita my friend, I wish you all the best!

invalid

He did give you some good advice, such as the tweeter couldn't enhance the sda because it's not in the tweeter circuit.

xschop

The RDO198 is pretty darn sparkly after new caps are properly burned in.

Whoever properly implements a dedicated midrange to a set of CRS+TL's or SDA-2B TL's, is champion in my book.