I have definitely lost it

mhardy6647

I don't disagree -- 'long as it is flat.
Amusingly, I have an extra daughterboard populated with a set of sliders that are (presumably) good.
But I am... preternaturally lazy.
I believe I mentioned that.

gp4jesus

😂

Tony M

It's all about that bass, bout that bass.

https://youtu.be/7PCkvCPvDXk

Iblameheathkit

Sorry for what I fear will be another long post. Sooo...
I got the monster Polks all nestled in last night. Fired everything up, expecting sonic nirvana. Nope. Flat, lifeless, edgey. Stumbled across some info here about possible tweeter polarity issues. Nope. (Although I did verify that I have the tl version ). Thought to myself, did I just blow $500 on something that just doesn't work in my listening environment? Frustrated, I went to bed. Woke up this morning, hoping maybe a good night's sleep and some adjustments would change my impressions. They did not.

I have always been a specs type guy. In my mind, if 2 amps had the same specs, they should sound nearly identical. After owning 2 of the class d amp based Pioneer Elites, I was starting to question that notion. Even though they looked good on paper, I never really enjoyed listening to them. Maybe, because it was counter to my way of thinking, I didn't want to believe it was the amp. As I was listening to my ill sounding Polks, the thought resurfaced again. Is it the amp?

Fate. Karma. Luck. I don't know but I must have done some good last week or something. As the thoughts went round my head this morning, of just going back to the good ol class a/b analog stereo days, I got a text. It was the guy who I bought the the Polks from. He had found the matching preamp and eq that went with the power amps he had already sold.
Really nice Onkyo stuff from their top of the line Integra series. He liked me. Told me he'd sell both pieces for $100. It was the sign I was waiting for. I had seen a Kenwood M2 power amp on c.l. during my speaker search. He still had it. Wanted $400. I said how bout $350? He said come get it.

Got everything home and hooked up, minus eq, due to lack of rca cables. Even without the eq, it's just an amazing difference. Night and day. I think it's the amp topology. Class d for dud. Again, you can't cheat physics. The Pioneer draws 330w ac. The Kenwood draws 1350w ac at full output. I really think I was hearing all the odd harmonics from the magical switching power supply, which class d amps are based on, intruding into the audible range. Maybe it was all the digital procesing going on. Even in the "pure signal" mode it still sounded bad. The Pioneer was from 2010. Maybe they've improved it since. Seems like they'd be trying fix something that was broken from the beginning, as far as the class d amp is concerned.

Definitely confirms my own suspicions, and reinforces what many others have said before. The best 2 channel music option is not an av receiver. No matter how good it looks on paper or how well it tests out in the lab. Just too much goin on inside that thing.
Now I can take some pics!

Clipdat

Go on...

Tony M

Congrats.

So, the Rambler is now rockin?

I wonder what SPL is occurring or are you just a low or med. volume level listener?

Iblameheathkit

Yup. The Rambler is definitely rockin. One setback. I went to hook up the eq I got with the preamp, and something killed the right channel on the preamp. So pissed at myself. Idk if something was wrong with the eq. The guy I got it from had an extra slider control that adjusts the frequency bands taped on top of the eq when I bought it. Said something about "if I heard a hum, that's what might need replacing", but he remembered it working ok and the slider was "just in case". I didn't hear a hum, a pop, or anything else scary once connected, but the right channel was dead. I figured the eq was just toasted, since everything worked fine before. But, much to my dismay, once I unhooked it, no sound out of the right channel of the preamp.
I am using the Pioneer sc25 as my pre for now, with ok results. I still think the analog Onkyo was much better. Fu*#ing disappointed. Guess I will look at the bright side. At least it didn't take out the power amp or speakers. Any suggestions on troubleshooting the Onkyo from a tech-minded soul? I have a digital multi meter and downloaded the service manual. I have done very little component level repair. I would feel confident enough to take voltage readings along the different circuits, which could lead me to the problem. Just need a little guidance, something along the lines of
"Put the meter on x setting, put the negative probe to chassis ground and check for x voltage, on x pin, of x transistor/cap etc
If not I guess I will have to decide if the cost of taking it to a shop is worth it.
Where's the "bang head against wall" emoji when you need it

Iblameheathkit

I'm trying to resist, but I think some alcohol therapy is getting ready to happen, just to reduce the sting.
Damnit man!

Iblameheathkit

Maybe it will make the Pioneer sound a little better.

Iblameheathkit

In these situations, I'm always reminded of the late, great Chris Farley's rant in "Blacksheep" when he says sometimes he just wants to yank the wheel and head for a bridge abutment.

mhardy6647

Oh.
I just wanted to add this little musical coda to the title of this thread.


https://youtu.be/WiQVaGdJEMY

audioluvr

Take that EQ and throw it in the trash. Take your time and build a better system. We are here to help.

Iblameheathkit

mhardy6647-
I have never in my 53 years heard or heard of Lucinda Williams. Thanks for the entertaining enlightenment. The was sublime. Somehow that helped ease the pain. Great soulful voice, and nailed my sentiment exactly.
And Audioluvr,
I'm taking it one step at a time, cause I'm definitely trying to avoid the 12 step program thing

Iblameheathkit

But the twinkley lights on that eq were just so pretty.... I should have just plugged it in for a decoration and left well enough alone.

Iblameheathkit

Anyways...

mhardy6647

Iblameheathkit wrote: »

mhardy6647-
I have never in my 53 years heard or heard of Lucinda Williams. Thanks for the entertaining enlightenment. The was sublime. Somehow that helped ease the pain. Great soulful voice, and nailed my sentiment exactly.
And Audioluvr,
I'm taking it one step at a time, cause I'm definitely trying to avoid the 12 step program thing

I feel really bad for you, in that case.
She's... something.
I'm not really much of a twang-o-phile -- but I make an exception for Lucinda.

That album (Car Wheels on a Gravel Road) is her Meisterstuck.

You might know this song of hers, which was covered by a guy called Tom Petty.

https://youtu.be/fzFndt3YPFI

https://youtu.be/Zi4FbohLSjs

msg

Iblameheathkit wrote: »

Anyways...

That's actually kind of cool and better than I imagined. However... you're not going to get the SDA performance with them toed in. Aside from that, placement looks about perfect.

Iblameheathkit

Yes, we lost a good one that day. "Even the Losers" is always hanging around the top of my recent play lists. Sounded a bit like he was channeling his inner Mick Jagger on a few notes there.

Iblameheathkit

Maybe from "Far away eyes" on the legendary Some Girls. The Stones were like a Phoenix from the ashes with that one.

Iblameheathkit

Yes sir Mr msg,
Those pics were from last night. They are now towed in just ever so slightly. I actually listened to about half a song today without the sda cable hooked up, just to gauge the difference in sound. And that's why it was only half a song. That was all I needed to hear before reconnecting it. Had a good friend who enjoys audio stop by today. He was impressed, to put it mildly. Got a text from him about 2 hours after he left. It was a picture of some sda 2's on f.b. marketplace with the caption
"Hmmm"

Iblameheathkit

I was driving home, early Sunday morning through Bakersfield, listening to Gospel music on the colored radio station(Mick's lyrics), and the preacher said "you know you always have the Lord by your side. I was so pleased to be informed of this that ran 20 red lights in his honor. Thank you Jesus, thank you Lord...
Yeah, you know what kind of eyes she had.

Iblameheathkit

That *I* ran.
Darn proof reading.

Iblameheathkit

And no, the sub is not hooked up.

audioluvr

Iblameheathkit wrote: »

That *I* ran.
Darn proof reading.

Iran. Great place to get a tan.

Iblameheathkit

Ha. It gave me a Flock of Seagulls flashback. Not really my cup of tea musically but inescapable when it came out in the 80s.

F1nut

Never toe in SDA speakers.

Iblameheathkit

And by slightly, I mean like 1/2" or less. (I made some adjustments after my pic was posted, if that is what you are refering to F1, Idk if you saw my previous post) My listening area dictates a seating position 5' in front of the speakers. I think the teeny toe in helps a little on-axis detail make it to my ears, rather than shooting off into space. It hasn't seemed to degrade the sda effect in a big way. Imho, and thank you all for any type of info or suggestions. Keep em coming.

pitdogg2

Properly set up movements of an 1/8 make huge differences. You do not have the proper environment for those. If you're enjoying them, fine. Understand that they need room to breathe.

Iblameheathkit

10-4. I'll try to keep my ears exactly parallel, within 1/8", as I sit.

Iblameheathkit

P.s. there pitdogg2, you do realize that in most humans, one ear is larger than the other. I have a surgeon that will make them perfectly equal for the best listening experience. I'm also working on a device similar to the Hans safety harness used in nascar that will hold your head in perfect relationship with your speakers (within 1/16"). It'll be value priced- MSRP $3,650.00ish. It's still in the testing phase. Shall I put you on the very exclusive waiting list for purchase, once it's ready to ship?