Another troubled trip to Tweeter
Went to Tweeter today to check out the Polk Lsi 15's and 25's. They had them both set up in the same room as the RTi line and the Sapphires! The 15's were being powered by a Denon 3805. Of course they sounded horrible. The 25's were hooked up to a 2-channel rig and they were OK, but the Lsi series should not be co-mingled with the RTi's and powered by a receiver. It'll be tough to sell them that way because they'll be competing with the Rti's, and the Lsi's will come up short. As a customer interested in purchasing the 15's, I walked away disenchanted.
The salesmen try hard to convince me that the 3805 and other receivers can "handle" the Lsi's. They know it's not true, but I guess they gotta say it anyway. Is there anything Polk can do to work with the folks at Tweeter and present the Lsi's in a more favorable fashion?
On the positive side, I spoke with two Tweeter salesmen at different stores. They say the Rti's are already selling quite well.
Interestingly enough, they also said the Polks will blow away the Boston Acoustics, and the Polks are cheaper, too. I haven't confirmed this, but I was told that Boston Acoutistics is following in the footsteps of Klipsch and will soon be selling their speakers at places like CC and BB.
As a side note, the Martin Logan electrostats have their own demo room at Tweeter. According to the salesperson, those speakers are rarely sold, yet they take up an entire room (1 out of 4). I'll bet Polk sales far outnumber ML and Sapphire sales, so the Polk Lsi's should kick the ML's out of their own room, shouldn't they?
The salesmen try hard to convince me that the 3805 and other receivers can "handle" the Lsi's. They know it's not true, but I guess they gotta say it anyway. Is there anything Polk can do to work with the folks at Tweeter and present the Lsi's in a more favorable fashion?
On the positive side, I spoke with two Tweeter salesmen at different stores. They say the Rti's are already selling quite well.
Interestingly enough, they also said the Polks will blow away the Boston Acoustics, and the Polks are cheaper, too. I haven't confirmed this, but I was told that Boston Acoutistics is following in the footsteps of Klipsch and will soon be selling their speakers at places like CC and BB.
As a side note, the Martin Logan electrostats have their own demo room at Tweeter. According to the salesperson, those speakers are rarely sold, yet they take up an entire room (1 out of 4). I'll bet Polk sales far outnumber ML and Sapphire sales, so the Polk Lsi's should kick the ML's out of their own room, shouldn't they?
HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes."
"God grooves with tubes."
Post edited by Early B. on
Comments
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About the Boston Acoustics - they sound terrible LOL.
Simple as that, I heard some Bostons at Sound Systems - and man they sounded like Klipsch on steroids. Really bright, muddy and boomy! A triple wammy!
As for Tweeter, my LSi demo wasnt much different.
However, they did have the LSi's in a different room, but they were being driven by the 48 or 38 denon receiver --- and the 15 was about 12-13 feet apart. Rather dissapointing might I say.
Tweeter down here is still moving out Boston products though, there was Boston products everywhere in that store.
Oh, and the new finish kicks serious Boston butt! LOL
I have interesting story for you though --
Back when Tweeter mainly carried Boston, they said the same thing about Boston vs Polk. Now they say the opposite. All depends on what you sell.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Sadly Tweeters is not the kind of place you'll be able to truely audition the LSi's in a kind light. I remember almost a month ago arguing with forum members about this topic.
The LSi's deserve top notch electronics and should be considered the "value" part of a two channel system. -
Let me say this,
If you go into any Tweeter store and see any speakers not hooked up to what you wanna hear them on,then ask a salesman to do so.
As Tweeter in Pa,NJ,Delaware we only have B&K to drive the Lsi's properly in my opnion.Down the road this might change.Alot of change has been going on in our stores.
Polk is new to our stores and we also carry others high quality speakers like Martin Logan.SO always finding Lsi on B&K isn't going to happen.There are stores that do have them in a theater setup full B&K seperates.
remember they are new to our stores and are not broken in yeat.They just hit the floors so give them time before you go in there and judge the speakers.
Remember to ask our salesmans to hook them up to B&K.
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
Killing time the other day I wandered into a Tweeter, not a B&K in sight. They had everything running off Denon AVR's, I left.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Man...that reminds me.
Sound Systems also carried Denon. So my entire day was Denon-o-fied. Every system I listened to was backed up by a Denon. And to think, I dont like Denon - which made it even worse.- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
Mantis -- it would be interesting for Polk or Tweeter to conduct a study on sales of Lsi's and compare sales at stores that have them on separates vs. those stores that don't.
Can you make that happen?HT/2-channel Rig: Sony 50 LCD TV; Toshiba HD-A2 DVD player; Emotiva LMC-1 pre/pro; Rogue Audio M-120 monoblocks (modded); Placette RVC; Emotiva LPA-1 amp; Bada HD-22 tube CDP (modded); VMPS Tower II SE (fronts); DIY Clearwave Dynamic 4CC (center); Wharfedale Opus Tri-Surrounds (rear); and VMPS 215 sub
"God grooves with tubes." -
Why does everyone seem so down on denon? The stuff they put out is better than a lot of the other crap out there. I do agree that the Lsi 15's need more than the denon to drive the to their full performance, but overall, I thought denon made some pretty good stuff?
Any one care to expand?Polk LSi 15 Fronts
Polk LSi C center
Polk LSiFX Surrounds
Outlaw Audio 990 Pre/Pro
Outlaw Audio 755 amp
Paradigm PDR-12 Sub
Outlaw Audio Cables
BetterCables Cables -
Denon makes some great AV receivers. IMHO the best for their price point. The Denon 5803 is reference receiver and when I move to HT i'd certainly would love to own one. For two channel audio however they are not ideal.
You have to remember what kinda speaker the LSi really is. This speaker was built with the idea of sonic harmony at a much higher price point then Polk has been use to. The LSi line of speakers is on par with the Energy Veritas, PSB Stratus, Paradigm Studio Reference, B & W 700's series, entry level Totem, Monitor Audio Silver series. The problem is that most of the stores, demos and electronics currently being used to demo the LSi's are of much much much poorer quality then those other speakers mentioned.
In fact when I was audtioning speakers almost two years ago, I had listened to alot listed above. With the PSB Stratus, I heard them on NAD, the Energy Veritas on Bryston. The Paradigm Studio's on NAD and Musical Fidelity. The B & W dealers have mostly Rotel and other higher end stuff from SimAudio, Classe'. The monitor Audio's I used to audition my current cd player (NAD541i) were also hooked up to all NAD. All of the mentioned speakers outside of the LSi had high quality equipment used, much higher then that of DENON (no knock on Denon). But a wide arrange of two channel stereo only stuff and higher end HT stuff.
Because LSi has this crutch they aren't going to be compared fairly. My reasons for their move to higher end retail outlets are much more selfish. Everytime I wanna do an upgrade I can't go to a highend dealer that carries them. I get to hear my future cdp, intergrated, cables on speakers other then the ones I own. LSi's might be considered "high-end" for Tweeters or other larger retail chains because they have no compeition on the floor, thus they are sold to individuals who will never know their full potential and bought them for reasons far removed from actual sound quality. -
I'm afraid the day of the Mid to High end audio retailer are gone. There are no dedicated rooms anymore. And most "salespersons" could care less about what they sell, as long as they sell something. It's been really difficult to find a store that properly demo's Mid-fi 2 channel product. There is just no
profitable market for it anymore. It's all mass market HT stores, it's very dissapointing. The best recommendation I can give is research what you might like and demo it at home. That;s the best place to audition it. Even in the day of knowledgable dedicated mid-fi stores this was the best way to know what you were buying and if it would sound the way you wanted. Make sure the store has a generous return policy.
If I worked for Polk I'd be frustrated as hell about this trend, what can they do? they still have to make a profit. They;ve built their reputaution over the last 25 years and to some extent that's what they are relying on today. Although 10 years ago some of these lower end lines wouldn't even have been considered.
Peace
BrockADCOM GFA-545 AMP
NAK CA-5 PRE-AMP
NAK MB2S CD
ADCOM GDA-700 DAC
POLK RTA-11T
MONSTER CABLE INTERCONNECTS
2 CHANNEL AND STILL LOVING IT!!! -
I dont know about your current geographical location, but I live 30mins outside of Toronto Ontario. Within a 1hr Drive I have 7 mid to hi-end Stereo dealers. All of which offer both Home Theatre and 2 channel Audio. From these 7 dealers I can get the following brands.
Bryston
Classe'
Rotel
NAD
B&W
Linn
Totem
Paradigm
PSB
KRELL
Musical Fidelity
Rega
Creek
Kef
Mirage
Monitor Audio
Cyrus
SimAudio
B & K
Klipsch
NHT
PMC
All 7 stores have at least 1 dedicated two channel music room. To suggest Polk can't pickup one of these dealers is a very weak excuse. They wanted to go bigtime, fine. They eruded their dealership relations when they went big box, fair enough. But they built speakers that belong in locations like the brands above. And Polk can't get them in there. The LSi's are a passionate speaker, they deserve passionate dealers, they exist and are in FACT growing. The cost of Hi fi went through the roof through the late 90's early 00's, if anything 2 channel has been reborn via Home Theatre. -
I'm in the Baltimore/Washington DC area and have over a dozen hi-fi stores within a hours drive, not counting stores like Tweeter, Myer-Emco and dedicated HT stores. The selection of audio products is mind boggling with only the very exotic being harder to find. Polk is actually in one of, if not the best hi-fi dealers in town.
Two channel is alive, well and kicking a$$.Political Correctness'.........defined
"A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."
President of Club Polk -
Originally posted by LuSh
I dont know about your current geographical location, but I live 30mins outside of Toronto Ontario. Within a 1hr Drive I have 7 mid to hi-end Stereo dealers. All of which offer both Home Theatre and 2 channel Audio. From these 7 dealers I can get the following brands.
Bryston
Classe'
Rotel
NAD
B&W
Linn
Totem
Paradigm
PSB
KRELL
Musical Fidelity
Rega
Creek
Kef
Mirage
Monitor Audio
Cyrus
SimAudio
B & K
Klipsch
NHT
PMC
All 7 stores have at least 1 dedicated two channel music room. To suggest Polk can't pickup one of these dealers is a very weak excuse. They wanted to go bigtime, fine. They eruded their dealership relations when they went big box, fair enough. But they built speakers that belong in locations like the brands above. And Polk can't get them in there. The LSi's are a passionate speaker, they deserve passionate dealers, they exist and are in FACT growing. The cost of Hi fi went through the roof through the late 90's early 00's, if anything 2 channel has been reborn via Home Theatre.
Lush,
I understand your point. I agree to a point. They made a big mistake by selling so many "price point" enchanced lines over the past 8-10 years. Polk used have a somewhat limited dealer network that made them desirable by virtue of limited distribution. Of course that's not the case anymore and atleast by perception they aren't "as good" as they used to be because they are now "big box" mass marketed speakers. The whole LSi line is remarkable in it's honest reproduction and it's a great overall line. But they can't expect stores like CC, BB, Tweeter to be able to demonstrate the superior qualities of these speakers, and bottom line if the customer can't hear it they won't pay for it.
The dealers/product lines you describe above would be a perfect match for the LSi series, but why would a high end dealer want to be associated with a speaker company who has atleast 3 other lines it sells to discounters. Again the perception is what kills the deal. Would you buy a Corvette from a Hyundai dealership? That's Polk's problem now. A great product but a fu**ed up distribution network.
You are lucky to have access to so many good products. I live in Rockford, outside Chicago. The 2nd largest city in Illinois and all of our independents except 1 are gone. They won't carry Polk because CC, BB, and American already do. These are mass market discounters and the independents couldn't compete price wise. Wouldn't be worth it to compete price wise.
Peace
BrockADCOM GFA-545 AMP
NAK CA-5 PRE-AMP
NAK MB2S CD
ADCOM GDA-700 DAC
POLK RTA-11T
MONSTER CABLE INTERCONNECTS
2 CHANNEL AND STILL LOVING IT!!! -
I hear every last one of yeah but,
in the really real world,polk and Tweeter have to do what they feel is right to survive in the really real world.
Theres no one else who **** more about this topic then me.I work for Tweeter and faught hard to getr polk back in our stores.I find it pleasing.We will take polk to the next level as our customers are the next level.
Being able to hear your system in a store is very difficult unless you like everything one store has to offer.
Not all Tweeters carry the same exact thing.We do have national brands but some areas have higher end stuff like Proceed,Krell and McIntosh.If you live near one of those stores,you could very well hook the Lsi's to any one of them.If thats what your planning to power them with.
Again I say this polk is brand new again to Tweeter.We just started carring them.Calm all your horses and be glad you now can go see the Lsi before you buy them.We carry B&K nationally.There should be B&K in the store near you.Ask for it.
Running Lsi off B&K you'll beable to hear what they can do.B&K is awesome gear I own it myself.
Bryston,Rotel,Classe would be great if we had them in all of our stores.But todays market doesn't justify carring that many seperates.I hate it but thats the market.Home theater receivers dominate sales.Denon dominates sales.Thats why you see so much of it.Nothing wrong with Denon,I also don't perfer Lsi on it.Rti series if fine there.
We as a company are moving product all over the place.We are trying to figure out what to keep and what to show the door 2.Simiko make killer products, but we Dropped Rel for Velodyne.Why???Velodyne sells much better then Rel.Does this mean they are better???Some could argue both ways.We did however sell many Rels,but in the short time we had Velodyne,we have sold more Velodyne then Rel.
I truely understand everyones concern and fustration.I share it myself,but I feel fortunate that I can go into one of our Tweeter stores and look at and listen to the Lsi series speakers.That all my itself Brings a smile to my face.
Again I can't say it enough,if your in the stores,looking to buy Lsi,and want to hear it on something else,don't be shy and ask to hear it on B&K.Or what you feel is the closest to what YOUR going to drive them with.
Happy shopping guys,
DanDan
My personal quest is to save to world of bad audio, one thread at a time. -
I'm wondering what the tweeter( Hi-Fi Buys) I go to is giong to do with the LSi's. Last time I was in there they had B&K with Sonus Faber. Oh man what a nice combination. The receiver and a pair of speakers was $6000.00 They sound real good. If they put the LSi'swith the B&K, or the B&K seperates then wow ! That way the LSI's will have a chance.
As a side note: The last time I went to Circuit City I tried to listen to some of the new RTi speakers. They had them, 8's and 10's but I never got to really hear them. After 20 minutes of fumbling around the salesmen could only get (1) speaker to play. The people who work there can't care about what they do. 1st how can you let the customer come in and know more, about what you sale, than you do? 2nd how can you work somewhere, in sales ,and not be able to demo what you're selling? And 3rd, how can you work somewhere 8 hours a day, five or six days a week, and not have a clue about how to display, and or present the commodity. Why/how did we let big bussiness run most of the small specialty stereo shops out of business.
Back in the day when I lived in Chicago, which is where I'm from, I had so many little stereo shops it was funny. I could go to one if I wanted to hear " Mark Levinson, or Dalquest , and Nikimichi", another that I could go listen to"McIntosh, or Bozak, or Thorens, B&O, and Ortofon, yet another that I first heard Polk Audio SDA's with Carver's pre,and power, and still more that carried the Sansui, Marantz etc. You'd go in these places and these salespeople were posessed. They loved the music, and they lived their jobs. They could talk tech or just basic sound difference and could show you what they were talking about. I have to admitt to being part of the problem. With the exception of my RPTV, and current speaker system , and wire. The majority of components in my system have been purchased on line. Shame on me.
A sign of the times, I guess if I listened to some of the stuff people listen to today I'd feel the same. Just download it, play it on anything. If they get a good system then maybe they would really hear what it is they are listening to. Huh.JmasterJ Polk to the Death -
You know how some people just dont like the sound of gear?
Well I really just dont like the sound of Denon. lol- Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit. -
C.C/B.B= Discount tv,reciever,computer,etc...=lower wages=lack of Knowledge =pissed off customer. There is a price to pay for everything, and that discount you will pay for.Outlaw 990 Processor
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Kenwood Excelon KDC-X891
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