HT Subwoofer Opinions

hochpt21

Hello all, happy holidays.

I just sold my old SVS PC Ultra to a friend and looking to buy a new sub/s.

Use - 99% HT
Room - 4000 CF

I’m contemplating either…
2 PB-2000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000

Or…
1 PB-3000
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-3000

Thoughts on the difference between a single more powerful sub vs duals of less power?

Thanks,
Paul

pearsall001

Both of those subs are excellent & rather large.
If you have the room definitely go for 2 PB-2000 vs a single PB-3000 (unless of course you can swing two of those bad boys😄)
Two subs will give you better integration & really help with smoothing out room nodes. Just all around better bass coverage for multiple seating in a HT setting with 2 subs.

hochpt21

pearsall001 wrote: »

Both of those subs are excellent & rather large.
If you have the room definitely go for 2 PB-2000 vs a single PB-3000 (unless of course you can swing two of those bad boys😄)
Two subs will give you better integration & really help with smoothing out room nodes. Just all around better bass coverage for multiple seating in a HT setting with 2 subs.

Thanks for your thoughts, that’s what I’m leaning toward.

WLDock

hochpt21 wrote: »

Use - 99% HT
Room - 4000 CF

How well did the single Ultra work out? 4000 CF is a lot of space! What are you after in your HT?

* ULF bass
* Midbass punch
* Great room coverage
* Pants flapping, Pressurization, Tactile Response!)
* ALL OF THE ABOVE?


If you are set on SVS, then I would say go with the dual 12's just to help with coverage and dealing with room modes.

However if you are open to other brands..... There are other possibilities in the $1400-$1600 range of the SVS subs. These 15" make a better case for a single sub:

Rythmik FV15HP - $1769 shipped.

Power Sound Audio TV1512 , LOW TUNED VENTED - $1599.99 shipped

Monolith by Monoprice M-15 V2 15in - $1,499.99 shipped (Was just on sale for $1249) https://slickdeals.net/f/15499972-monolith-by-monoprice-v2-thx-certified-ultra-subwoofers-1249?v=1&src=SiteSearch

HSU VTF-15H MK2 - $1232 shipped

Monolith by Monoprice 15 - $1099.99 Shipped

GlennDog

definitely consider Rythmik. It's a special sub IMHO.

hochpt21

Thanks for the great responses.

Not to sound simple, but I’m basically wanting the boom in movies to go boom.

The PC Ultra was great. Occasionally, on real big explosions it would distort and I would look over at the sub and that would distract from the situation, but as a 15yr old stand alone sub, it did well.

Budget is around $1,400 at the very max. That would take care of the dual 2000’s. Can’t really go higher than that.

Not sure if it matters, but moving to Klipsch RP-280F for the fronts (already have the 450C). And from what I’ve read the 289’s can dig fairly deep on their own.

rooftop59

I have the 15 inch monolith. Upgraded from the HSU VTF-2 mkV. Very good upgrade! Read the reviews. I think you light find that one of those is all you need!

BlueFox

hochpt21 wrote: »

Thanks for the great responses.

Not to sound simple, but I’m basically wanting the boom in movies to go boom.

Basically, that’s all I want. Just reproduce the movie soundtrack as is, don’t enhance or embellish it. Since my HT is in a small room, I haven’t turned my sub on for at least three years. I primarily use to hold my center channel speaker.

WLDock

hochpt21 wrote: »

Budget is around $1,400 at the very max.

rooftop59 wrote: »

I have the 15 inch monolith. Upgraded from the HSU VTF-2 mkV. Very good upgrade! Read the reviews. I think you light find that one of those is all you need!

There is is right there^^^

While the 13" PB-3000 is a great performer (Gets low for its size with great midbass kick) and makes for a very nice single sub.....


The BIG 27.6" x 17.7" x 26.8" 128.5 lbs. and BAD Monolith 15" is more in line with the performance of the PB-4000 and edges it out at many lower frequencies.



It has been compared against the PB-16 and faired well against that $2500 16" sub even though it gets edged out overall.

https://youtu.be/tOkcKe3DUD0


If you want to go duals, the $679 open box/$699 new each Monolith 12 are great performers also. its just that the Mono or SVS 12's don't get as low and loud as the 15's. A single 15" Mono is about the best performance for the money in your situation. Its a kick you in the chest, ULF rumble, low distortion monster that will try to shake your house apart.

Performance Charts
https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1dU5OOnf3nVgctJszmfyBjaxK69dkXte6ZL6anVTW2_M/edit#gid=834598950

https://data-bass.com/#/?_k=5jpthw

hochpt21

Great info, thanks!!

WLDock

hochpt21 wrote: »

Great info, thanks!!

No problem, I should have linked this one:

The PB-3000 vs. the Monolith 15

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9nbJX8HuKlE

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5B7WzFqy9W8&t=766s

hochpt21

rooftop59 wrote: »

I have the 15 inch monolith. Upgraded from the HSU VTF-2 mkV. Very good upgrade! Read the reviews. I think you light find that one of those is all you need!

How big is your room?

You guys are making this tough. I was close to set on the dual 2000’s, but now really considering the Mono 15.

sgmsmg

Don't forget with SVS you get a 45 day trial period and they pay for shipping both ways. Somewhat risk free if you want to try the SVS.

hochpt21

Quick question, I know every sub sounds different depending on the room, but as far as placement…

Can I place the sub parallel along the left wall with the driver facing forward? Or does the driver need to point out towards the room?

WLDock

hochpt21 wrote: »

You guys are making this tough. I was close to set on the dual 2000’s, but now really considering the Mono 15.

None can fault you if you go SVS, as they represent the industry well. The dual 12's will give you nice coverage but the Monolith 15 will dig deeper (ULF - Ultra Low Frequencies) and is the best bet for the money as a single sub. Also, consider the Monolith 12 duals as well as they are the same price. Some liked them better, see below.

https://www.monoprice.com/product?p_id=24457
https://www.svsound.com/products/pb-2000

Some just put duals up from but others have had luck placing them in opposed corners. Some place one close to the couch for extra tactile sensation. HSU research for example recommends placing one sub behind the couch if possible.

It really is a tough choice but both offer a 30-45 day money back guaranties if you have the means and will to pit dual SVS or Monolith 12's against a single 15 and send the looser packing! We can talk numbers all day but listening in one's own space is the ONLY way to really know what hits the best in your room. There is no bad choice if you do dual 2000's , Monoprice 12's , or a single Monoprice 15.
All will be more impressive and ahead in performance where the single SVS PC Ultra left off.

More push off the ledge.... Check these reviews out as well.

https://www.amazon.com/Monolith-Inch-Powered-Subwoofer-Certified/dp/B075R1DFCX?th=1

chucky 7 on Amazon wrote:

Monolith 15" doesn't hit as hard as the top $2000 ID subs out there, but it can provide a glimpse of what the top $2000 subs sound like. Heck, its extension and SQ are already there. It just has less output, which is to be expected. I also like that the Monolith 15” amp plate has enough control to suit the listener’s needs but not too many that might be overwhelming even for a tweaker. This is the most impressive $1500 and under sub that I have heard, period.

Highly recommended!

https://www.audioholics.com/subwoofer-reviews/monolith-15201d

Audioholics wrote:

Both burst testing and long-term testing reveal this to have very high output capability while maintaining extraordinarily low distortion. Of course, that is expected, given the design of this sub. Its frequency response remains impressively linear regardless of output level.

Its deep bass performance is especially noteworthy; the 15” THX Ultra hits hard at near subsonic frequencies and does so without breaking a sweat. However, its overall performance is so exemplary that it is not easy to pick out one particular quality of sound reproduction above all others.

Something else that is particularly praiseworthy about It can not be over-driven or ‘blown’ by any content no matter how hard it is driven. Go ahead and crank this subwoofer, it can handle whatever you throw at it (well, not physically throw at it, but whatever signal you want to send it)

https://www.avsforum.com/threads/svs-pb-2000-vs-monoprice-monolith-12-vs-hsu-vtf-2-mk5.3166450/page-2

MIX_MASTER_ICE wrote:

I had dual PB-2000's at one time, as well as dual PB12-NSD's. Those subs sounded very similar in a 2700 ft^3 room. I then also bought the Monolith THX Ultra 12 and I was very impressed, which isn't an easy thing to do. Long story short, I no longer have the 12" SVS subs and have dual Monolith 12's. It's the cleanest sounding ported 12" sub I've heard. It really is a beast for output and sound quality. For $699.99 the Monolith is a great sub.

WLDock

Interesting, I just ran across this listing for two HSU Research VTF-3 MK5 subs, asking $1399
near Canton, OH.

https://dayton.craigslist.org/ele/d/troy-hsu-research-vtf-mk5-home/7422291584.html

A bit of a drive if you are still in Wisconsin, but a half day roundtrip if the seller could meet halfway. Dual 15's would be special.

Good ULF numbers and up to 120dB in the 40Hz-50Hz range!

hochpt21

Well I ended up pulling the trigger on a pair of SVS PB-2000.

Thanks everyone for the advice, opinions and information. I really researched and read a lot.

It came down to not necessarily needing the foundation shaking with one large sub but just good solid even bass. I know I know, you all laugh and maybe these are stepping stones LOL.

I was extremely close to going for the Monolith 12’s, but the reported excellent customer service of SVS and the small discount for going duals ended up being the tipping point.

Ordered today and shipped today. Hoping to have them by the end of the week or early next.

Also, ordered some Klipsch RP-280s and 450c, so really looking forward to getting it all in place and dialed in.

ken brydson

Good choice. I've had a single PB2000 for a year now and I've been very happy with it.

pearsall001

Nice! You won't be disappointed.

rooftop59

hochpt21 wrote: »

Quick question, I know every sub sounds different depending on the room, but as far as placement…

Can I place the sub parallel along the left wall with the driver facing forward? Or does the driver need to point out towards the room?

I see that you’ve already decided, and I’m sure you’ll be happy, but simply for reference: my room is a bit long and narrow but very tall ceilings. About 16 ft wide by 24 for long with about 14 ft ceiling. I actually have mine along a side wall next to the sectional pointing across the room because I don’t really have a choice. I’m sure it could sound better but dayum it sounds good right now!

hochpt21

rooftop59 wrote: »

hochpt21 wrote: »

Quick question, I know every sub sounds different depending on the room, but as far as placement…

Can I place the sub parallel along the left wall with the driver facing forward? Or does the driver need to point out towards the room?

I see that you’ve already decided, and I’m sure you’ll be happy, but simply for reference: my room is a bit long and narrow but very tall ceilings. About 16 ft wide by 24 for long with about 14 ft ceiling. I actually have mine along a side wall next to the sectional pointing across the room because I don’t really have a choice. I’m sure it could sound better but dayum it sounds good right now!

I’ve done some research, but when they show up I’m sure I’ll have some questions about placement…

WLDock

One really can't go wrong running dual SBS subs! They are that SOLID of a company. Great choice!

Get some sliders and try them in all available spaces upfront, sides, back wall, etc.

jbreezy5

hochpt21 wrote: »

rooftop59 wrote: »

hochpt21 wrote: »

Quick question, I know every sub sounds different depending on the room, but as far as placement…

Can I place the sub parallel along the left wall with the driver facing forward? Or does the driver need to point out towards the room?

I see that you’ve already decided, and I’m sure you’ll be happy, but simply for reference: my room is a bit long and narrow but very tall ceilings. About 16 ft wide by 24 for long with about 14 ft ceiling. I actually have mine along a side wall next to the sectional pointing across the room because I don’t really have a choice. I’m sure it could sound better but dayum it sounds good right now!

I’ve done some research, but when they show up I’m sure I’ll have some questions about placement…

Check out the following from REL regarding subwoofer placement:

https://rel.net/room-setup/

hochpt21

stangman67

I'm interested what your opinion is of the dual PB2000's

Years back I picked up two PB-1000's to replace my DIYSOUNDGROUP 15" ported sub and was very disappointed to the point the SVS were returned and I stuck with the DIY sub . A good 15 with 600-1000 watts RMS is I think the sweet spot for most set ups (I just wish the kit was still available so I could build a second)

hochpt21

Well I have them set up, run the calibration from the Denon and tried a few placements. I have to say I am fairly underwhelmed.

The output of two doesn’t even come close to the output of the old PC Ultra (even though the specs are similar.)

Not sure if it’s a placement thing or if I need to manually tweak some settings.

stangman67

That really doesn’t surprise me a lot. I was very underwhelmed with the 2 PB-1000’s. Didn’t touch my 600 dollar DIY sub.

I will say calibration programs tend to place the sub level pretty low. May need to just up the level a bit manually on both subs and see what happens

hochpt21

No, I see what your saying, but I figured with similar specs that one would almost equal what I had and two would exceed.

They are both at about 60% right now on the volume. Not sure if I should go higher than that manually, or boost from the receiver. Or both?

stangman67

Either or is fine. Just do it slowly. The SVS subs do have great protection circuits on them so you probably won’t hurt anything, but I’d still do it in small increments to make sure you aren’t going to the point of clipping

WLDock

hochpt21 wrote: »

I have to say I am fairly underwhelmed.

Oh Wow, sorry to hear that. There's always concern when moving to a different sub of similar size and power that there won't be much output different.

With two subs, a real world 3 dB improvement is expected with a 6dB increase being a dream but possible. The main thing with two subs is that room coverage should be better.

Hence, the push to go with a single higher output 15" Monolith sub.

Nevertheless, Your Denon has stout preout levels and frequency so a Y-splitters should not be needed at the subs to run inputs into both the left and right: https://www.audioholics.com/av-receiver-reviews/denon-avr-x3300w-1/measurements

Therfore I would:

• You seem to already have the sub level raised about 3-6dB (60% / 1 o'clock position) after Audyssey calibrations. many do this to get to desired levels. You may have to raise the output in the Denon a little to see how it sounds.
  
• Double check settings to see if you can find more improvements. Also, give the subs a workout, play low tones to loosen up the surrounds / break-in.
  
• Run a single sub without calibration and see how you like it. Manually adjust Phase. Then, the same with the other single to see how the other location sounds.
  
• Run both subs without calibration and see how you like. Did the sound/output improve or get worst over a single sub?
  
• Play with locations using a single sub and note on best performing locations. Try to get the location of each sub to the MLP (Main Listening Position) equal.
  
• Try the second sub side-by-side or stacked on top of the other placed at the best location to see if there is an output different. How does this sound/output compared to the subs in different locations running calibrations? Are the side-by-side or stacked sounding more powerful?
  
• Rerun calibrations, all 8 positions, to get the Denon sub output level in the -6 to -10 dB range. Turn off DynamicEQ, raise the Denon sub output level and compare. Watch a movie with good bass output and punch.

This should hopefully give you an idea if your room is doing odd things with two subs and if placement is an issue. Also, trying the subs side-by-side or stacked in the sweet spot will give a bit of an idea what a more powerful single sub might be able to do in the space.

Worst case you have a frequency response issue that is not being corrected.

jbreezy5

hochpt21 wrote: »

No, I see what your saying, but I figured with similar specs that one would almost equal what I had and two would exceed.

They are both at about 60% right now on the volume. Not sure if I should go higher than that manually, or boost from the receiver. Or both?

Just for frame of reference when I was manually dialing in my single REL HT/1003 10” sub for bedroom system 12’x10’ room, I think, I stopped at about 10 o’clock on the volume dial, working backwards from 12 o’clock.



I’m a little surprised you’re at 60% volume with two subs and still unsatisfied.

Just thinking you either have a massively huge room, no boundary reinforcement (maybe a positioning issue), or the subs may be that disappointing. 😬

Maybe contact SVS and see what they say?