Black Ice Audio

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kevhed72
kevhed72 Posts: 4,959
in 2 Channel Audio
Formerly known as Jolida. I found a Black Ice tube DAC used which may be a good fit for my otherwise SS rig. The question is....why did Jolida change its name, and did it have anything to do w quality control? If so, is this simply a name change to shed the tarnished Jolida name?
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,046
    edited November 2021
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    Lots of intrigue between the JoLida or Jolida (the Maryland based company) and Jolida (Shenda) in China (which I think manufactured the stuff for him/them) back about, what, a dozen years ago?
    Stick with the real thing, IMO= Black Ice.
    https://www.blackiceaudio.com/contact/

    Here's the first discussion on the topic that gurgle google turned up :p
    https://forum.audiogon.com/discussions/jolida-of-china-v-jolida-of-maryland
    ... and more :p
    https://www.canuckaudiomart.com/forum/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=19006&start=15

    EDIT: OK, in 2021, it's more complicated than it used to be, because, by all appearances, this is the "real" Jolida, too (?!?).
    https://www.jolida.com/contactus

    hmmm... looks like the Chinese brand's website is down for the count (?!??) :p
    http://www.jolida.net/

    I'd call the company in MD and just ask them before I invested any $$. They've been around for a long time.

    Post edited by mhardy6647 on
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,579
    edited November 2021
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    Last axpona I went to Black Ice had a huge display.
    The name change was to try and get away from all the negative back and forth of which product was real or the better product. Honestly it sounded to me that the Chinese stole the name and product designs then went on to build even cheaper products to undercut the Maryland folks.

    I could be wrong. That was the gist of my discussion with black ice folks.

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  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,802
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    Ivan nailed it. Michael Allen, owner of the original Jolida is the President of Black Ice, but Jerred Dunkerson is the CEO. The company address is Mr. Allen's house. Of note, Jim Fosgate is designing some of their newer gear.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."

    President of Club Polk

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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,479
    edited November 2021
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    To add...this was heavily debated/speculated/etc on our own forum 10 years ago. For anyone interested in the confusion back then take a walk down memory lane:
    https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/114892/can-jolida-net-be-trusted/p1
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • txcoastal1
    txcoastal1 Posts: 13,132
    edited November 2021
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    Walter ...Underwood Hifi is a great guy....done business with the guy for almost 10years and multiple purchases

    https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/black-ice-audio

    My first purchase from him in 2012 was the Jolida 801BRC w/6550's and the Fusion Tube DAC
    The Rooster still has this combo for LSAF...still singing
    2-channel: Modwright KWI-200 Integrated, Dynaudio C1-II Signatures
    Desktop rig: LSi7, Polk 110sub, Dayens Ampino amp, W4S DAC/pre, Sonos, JRiver
    Gear on standby: Melody 101 tube pre, Unison Research Simply Italy Integrated
    Gone to new homes: (Matt Polk's)Threshold Stasis SA12e monoblocks, Pass XA30.5 amp, Usher MD2 speakers, Dynaudio C4 platinum speakers, Modwright LS100 (voltz), Simaudio 780D DAC

    erat interfectorem cesar et **** dictatorem dicere a
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,937
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    kevhed72 wrote: »
    Formerly known as Jolida. I found a Black Ice tube DAC used which may be a good fit for my otherwise SS rig. The question is....why did Jolida change its name, and did it have anything to do w quality control? If so, is this simply a name change to shed the tarnished Jolida name?
    I own products from both the Maryland JoLida, and the Shenda outfit (and exchanged correspondence with them as well).

    In answer to your questions, my opinion would be:

    1️⃣ No, nothing to do with quality control.
    2️⃣ Yes, everything to do with the messy disagreement between the manufacturer & the Maryland outfit.

    If you read the legal filings, it becomes apparent just how messy the relationship between the various parties was. Very much cloak and dagger, with accusations of stolen designs from Shenda, which led to things spiraling out of control.

    Ultimately, the JoLida brand would seem to be dead for all parties involved at this point, but I would not personally be tempted to purchase from Black Ice Audio. There’s enough mud slinging in the JoLida saga to suggest some underhand dealings that were less than entirely honest.
    Alea jacta est!
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  • Toolfan66
    Toolfan66 Posts: 16,907
    edited November 2021
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    I always wanted to know where my JD9 was built but never really looked into it, I’m sure China but mine has a different looking badge from others I’ve seen, I was just happy it was black, LOL, and modified the hell out of it.

    I wouldn’t mind playing around with the Black Ice gear. I do wish they had pics of the innards of their gear..
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  • Mike Reeter
    Mike Reeter Posts: 4,314
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    I've been interested in their Fusion F100 Mono-blocks, but there is very little press covering them it seems.
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  • Kex
    Kex Posts: 4,937
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    Toolfan66 wrote: »
    I always wanted to know where my JD9 was built but never really looked into it, I’m sure China but mine has a different looking badge from others I’ve seen, …
    IIRC, the stuck on gold logo of the “X marks the spot” graphic was added to the products sold by Maryland, whereas the Shenda models retained the original silkscreen branding with no gold sticker. All products were made by Shenda before the split.

    According to the court documents, the disagreement arose when the Maryland JoLida started their own factory in China, allegedly poaching staff & blueprints from Shenda. Both entities disputed ownership of the JoLida brand. Shenda, in turn, starting selling direct, with much lower prices.

    Either way, they did seem well built to me, especially for the price & performance when purchased used.

    I stopped using mine over ten years ago, when I started using inefficient speakers rated at 3-6Ω. They’ve been boxed up in storage ever since.
    Alea jacta est!
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  • JayCee
    JayCee Posts: 1,479
    edited November 2021
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    txcoastal1 wrote: »
    Walter ...Underwood Hifi is a great guy....done business with the guy for almost 10years and multiple purchases
    https://www.underwoodhifi.com/products/black-ice-audio
    My first purchase from him in 2012 was the Jolida 801BRC w/6550's and the Fusion Tube DAC
    The Rooster still has this combo for LSAF...still singing
    Also purchased several items from Walter and have the same opinion.
    Kex wrote: »
    ...I would not personally be tempted to purchase from Black Ice Audio.
    Can't speak to his thoughts at the time the legal battles happened but going forward and based on my experience w/Walter, I don't believe his business model is to represent companies that could/would continue to hurt his rep. He must be confident in the reincarnation as Black Ice. I did have a problem w/one of my purchases (different company) and he was all about making it right.

    ...edit to add: FWIW, I have zero experience w/Jolida or Black Ice.
    ➀Speakers: Polk1.2tl's (Uber Mods) ➁Pre/Amp/DAC: PS Audio BHK Signature & 250, DirectStream ➂Cables/IC's: MIT S1Bi-Wire/S1 Balanced +Avel Lindberg 1000VA "Dreadnought" ➃Power Conditioner: PS Audio P15 Power Plant ➄Power Cords: Core Power Technologies Gold, DH Labs Power Plus DIY w/Neotech NC-P301 & P311ends ➅Streaming: Roon ROCK on wifi'd NUC, TP-Link WAP, & Uptone EtherREGEN, AfterDark, Emperor Double Crown Clock, Black Modernize LPS, PS Audio AirLens⟿Ω☯☥☮⟿🔊♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬♩♪♫♬
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  • kevhed72
    kevhed72 Posts: 4,959
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    Well, this is good info. to know. I have a bead on a used Black Ice tube DAC which uses 2 12ax7 tubes in the output stage. Also a bnc connection and coax output...plus an optical output. I held on to my holy grail tubes from my Cary pre after selling it. I think this is a no brainer for me....stay tuned.
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