Looking for a musical sub

Needs to be amplified(300+ rms?), have speaker connections and under $500.
Am I dreaming?
Yep, my name really is Bob.
Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
«1

Comments

  • VR3
    VR3 Posts: 27,880
    edited November 2021
    - Not Tom ::::::: Any system can play Diana Krall. Only the best can play Limp Bizkit.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,126
    If you want musical, definitely go with a direct servo sub. It doesn't matter which brand IME, what matters is that the sub is a direct servo sub. Trey pointed out a very solid choice that is just a little bit above your price point.
    People who have direct servo subs tend to keep them or upgrade them, which is why they seldom come up on the used market...and for good reason. There is no "boom" at the bottom but they have no problem hitting the lower octaves with complete authority.
    The ugliest sub I have ever seen in my life actually got me turned onto direct servo subs and I haven't heard one in all of my travels that sounds like a direct servo sub.....but you can damned sure tell when the sub is not one by the bloated or exaggerated bass.
    I own two Rythmik subs and they don't break a sweat, no matter what I have thrown at them FWIW. I would highly recommend them but again, even if you don't go Rythmik, my advice would be to go direct servo. Your ears (and your neighbors) will thank you.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,928
    muncybob wrote: »
    Needs to be amplified(300+ rms?), have speaker connections and under $500.
    Am I dreaming?

    If you are willing to go used, I have a number of suggestions. if not, I got nothing...
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • erniejade
    erniejade Posts: 6,263
    Fully agree with the rythmik suggestion! Great sounding subs
    Musical Fidelity Tri-Vista 300, Audioquest Thunderbird Zero Speaker Cable, Tyler Highland H2, Audioquest Thunderbird Interconnect, Innuos Zen MK3 W4S recovery, Revolution Audio Labs USB & Ethernet, Border Patrol SE-I, Audioquest Niagara 5000 & Thunder, Cullen Crossover II PC's.
  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    Used is def an option. Currently trying to get the boss to expand the budget as the Rythmik looks good to me.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 24,323
    muncybob wrote: »
    Used is def an option. Currently trying to get the boss to expand the budget as the Rythmik looks good to me.

    Do it and ask for forgiveness.
  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    Good news, the boss has given me the green light to go to $600. Any other suggestions with that budget?
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,928
    If you can find a used Martin Logan grotto, those are excellent. Original ML dynamos abound an eBay and are very musical, sealed, and hit into the upper 20s. You could get a pair at your budget. That’s what I would be tempted to do…
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    So I read this statement bout servo subs. Is it referring to the sub's amp or the main rig amp? One downside to servo subs is they need " enormous amount of amp power they demand to do their job"
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,472
    It's referring to the sub's built in amplifier. All servo subs will be self-powered.
  • msg
    msg Posts: 9,188
    rooftop59 wrote: »
    If you can find a used Martin Logan Grotto, those are excellent. Original ML dynamos abound an eBay and are very musical, sealed, and hit into the upper 20s. You could get a pair at your budget. That’s what I would be tempted to do…
    The Grotto - one of the best subs I've ever had. Paul introduced me.

    The Abyss is also good, but not servo.

    I disabled signatures.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,126
    Direct servo subs are unlike any other. It's not like you can go to Parts Express and build a proper direct servo sub. The plate amp and the driver act as one and are not interchangeable and from what I understand, they are built specific to a certain size/volume cabinet. Both the plate amp and the driver both have to be direct servo in order to work and they need to be engineered together, not separately.

    In comparison, so long as you get a regular sub cabinet's internal volume correct? You can pair any plate amp with any driver depending on what you want (Just not a direct servo driver/amp). You just cut the hole(s) to size and install each one.

    Mr. Gary Koh (the owner of Genesis https://genesisloudspeakers.com/ ) and I were talking a few years back about direct servo subs and I started inquiring about his. His are all direct servo subs, FWIW. As the conversation went on, he had mentioned this sub called a "Rythmik" sub and stated that one of these would give you 95% of what his could do at a small fraction of the price. Hmmm, "Rythmik, huh?"

    At the time, I had never heard of them and what started the conversation was I got to talkin' about that ugly direct servo sub....and that it was hands down the ugliest sub I had ever seen but it was the easiest to dial in and the best sounding sub I had heard to date (at that time).

    Anyhoo, I went and researched into Rythmik subs and the one thing I noticed is that you do not hardly see them come up on the used market at all. When they do (or did) come up for sale, folks were either downsizing and getting rid of their gear, they were upgrading to another Rythmik sub or......well, I don't recall at the moment any other reason why folks would sell them, so those may have been the only two reasons I came across when I was in the market.

    So, I got in contact with the owner of Rythmik and ordered me 2 F-25's and they were delivered in time for an audio event where my system was featured at the time. They sounded incredible right out of the box and still do today. They are incredibly tight, yet very authoritative without breaking a sweat at the same time.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,126
    muncybob wrote: »
    One downside to servo subs is they need " enormous amount of amp power they demand to do their job"
    Most all servo subs from what I understand are class D amps. They are efficient and while they do and can have what some people consider monstrous amounts of available power, they do not use this power continuously. During heavy demands at concert levels or when you adjust them incorrectly to gobs and gobs of bass/midbass? Eh, yeah, they will use more.
    The F-25's have 800w plate amps on them IIRC. That's not that bad IMO.

    Tom

    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,472
    Once you go Rythmik you never go back.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,126
    I was gonna agree with that but I don't think it's the company Rythmik that does the subs so good. I think it's the technology of what direct servo brings to the table. That ugly sub was made by Infinity and it was no slouch...at all.
    That sub literally took 5 minutes to dial in and one of the most commented on aspect of the featured rig that year was how well the sub blended into the mains/room. Subs usually take much longer than that to get dialed in correctly and still have noticeable issues that present themselves from time to time. Most people didn't even know there was a sub until we told them. That's when you know you nailed it. This (the ugly sub) was paired up with a pair of Apogee Centaurus'.

    Tom
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    muncybob wrote: »
    Good news, the boss has given me the green light to go to $600. Any other suggestions with that budget?

    I’m happy with the REL HT1003. Sealed sub, but not servo. Tight, fast, punchy, and well-delineated bass to my ears. I think it goes down to 25Hz and available for $600.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • F1nut
    F1nut Posts: 49,602
    The original servo sub company is Velodyne, but unlike Rythmik, not all of their models utilize servo technology.

    Going off memory, Velodyne servo subs sample the driver movement 16,000 times per second. Tight, tuneful bass is the result.

    Velodyne set the bar for subs many moons ago. Over the years the owner, David Hall, lost interest and recently sold the company. Velodyne is now owned by a German business man, nice guy.
    Political Correctness'.........defined

    "A doctrine fostered by a delusional, illogical minority and rabidly promoted by an unscrupulous mainstream media, which holds forth the proposition that it is entirely possible to pick up a t-u-r-d by the clean end."


    President of Club Polk

  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    The room is 15X26 with the listening area apprx. 12 ' from the speakers on the 15' wall. I'm hoping the sub placement will be about 10' from the "listening chair". I know it's hard to say without actually hearing it, but would you think the Rythmik 12" 300 watt sub do the job? I like the specs, reviews and the price.

    Found a few used Velodyne servos but their amps are lower powered.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,928
    I have a HUGE room and I felt like the ML grotto filled in nicely.
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,928
    muncybob wrote: »
    The room is 15X26 with the listening area apprx. 12 ' from the speakers on the 15' wall. I'm hoping the sub placement will be about 10' from the "listening chair". I know it's hard to say without actually hearing it, but would you think the Rythmik 12" 300 watt sub do the job? I like the specs, reviews and the price.

    Found a few used Velodyne servos but their amps are lower powered.

    I wouldn’t worry about the power ratings. Look at reviews…
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • la2vegas
    la2vegas Posts: 599
    No affiliation. e2ks1xt2yp3j.jpg
  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    After careful consideration, we decided to get the B-stock Rythmik L12. Ordered it yesterday. The Mrs says it's an early Xmas present for me. Never had a sub in the 2 channel rig, so really looking forward to this!
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    Awesome! That will feel like a whole new system once you get it dialed in. Leaps and bounds upgrade, IMO.

    I use the Sonic Tools app to check in-room frequency response on my cell phone. The REL website has free subwoofer set-up videos, if you need help.
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • rooftop59
    rooftop59 Posts: 7,928
    muncybob wrote: »
    After careful consideration, we decided to get the B-stock Rythmik L12. Ordered it yesterday. The Mrs says it's an early Xmas present for me. Never had a sub in the 2 channel rig, so really looking forward to this!

    I’m sure you’ll love it Bob! What speakers are you pairing it with?
    Living Room 2.2: Usher BE-718 "tiny dancers"; Dual DIY Dayton audio RSS210HF-4 Subs with Dayton SPA-250 amps; Arcam SA30; Musical Fidelity A308; Sony UBP-x1000es; Squeezebox Touch with Bolder Power Supply
    Game Room 5.1.4:
    Denon AVR-X4200w; Sony UBP-x700; Definitive Technology Power Monitor 900 mains, CLR-3000 center, StudioMonitor 350 surrounds, ProMonitor 800 atmos x4; Sub - Monoprice Monolith 15in THX Ultra

    Bedroom 2.1
    Cambridge Azur 551r; Polk RT25i; ACI Titan Subwoofer
  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    Speakers are "upgraded" SDA 2Bs. They don't lack much in the bass area, with perhaps low volume listening, but you never know what you are missing until you try something, right?

    Now I need to get some decent speaker wire. Will need about 30' total. Suggestions?
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • treitz3
    treitz3 Posts: 18,126
    ~ In search of accurate reproduction of music. Real sound is my reference and while perfection may not be attainable? If I chase it, I might just catch excellence. ~
  • jbreezy5
    jbreezy5 Posts: 1,141
    CD Players: Sony CDP-211; Sony DVP-S9000ES; Sony UDP-X800M2 (x2); Cambridge Audio CXC

    DACs: Jolida Glass FX Tube DAC III (x2); Denafrips Ares II (x2)

    Streamers: ROKU (x3); Bluesound Node 2i and Node N130 w/LHY LPS // Receivers: Yamaha RX-V775BT; Yamaha RX-V777

    Preamps: B&K Ref 50; B&K Ref 5 S2; Classe CP-800 MkII; Audio Research SP16L (soon)

    Amps: Niles SI-275; B&K ST125.7; B&K ST125.2; Classe CA-2300; Butler Audio TDB-5150

    Speakers: Boston Acoustics CR55; Focal Chorus 705v; Wharfedale Diamond 10.2; Monitor Audio Silver-1; Def Tech Mythos One (x4)/Mythos Three Center (x2)/Mythos Two pr.; Martin Logan Electromotion ESL; Legacy Audio Victoria/Silverscreen Center; Gallo Acoustics Reference 3.1; SVS SB-1000 Pro; REL HT-1003; B&W ASW610; HifiMan HE400i

    Turntable: Dual 721 Direct-Drive w/Audio Technica AT-VM95e cart

    Cables: Tripp-lite 14ga. PCs, Blue Jeans Cable ICs, Philips PXT1000 ICs; Kimber Kable DV30 coaxial ICs; Canare L-4E6S XLR ICs; Kimber Kable 8PR & 8TC speaker cables.
  • WLDock
    WLDock Posts: 3,073
    edited November 2021
    muncybob wrote: »
    After careful consideration, we decided to get the B-stock Rythmik L12. Ordered it yesterday. The Mrs says it's an early Xmas present for me. Never had a sub in the 2 channel rig, so really looking forward to this!
    Nice choice for a music system.
    treitz3 wrote: »
    Mr. Gary Koh (the owner of Genesis https://genesisloudspeakers.com/ ) and I were talking a few years back about direct servo subs and I started inquiring about his. His are all direct servo subs, FWIW. As the conversation went on, he had mentioned this sub called a "Rythmik" sub and stated that one of these would give you 95% of what his could do at a small fraction of the price. Hmmm, "Rythmik, huh?"Tom
    A Genesis sub has been listed for sale for awhile not too far from me, I've thought about getting checking into it at one point. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/item/821073171879142/?ref=search&referral_code=marketplace_search&referral_story_type=post&tracking=browse_serp:d7dbaf56-2e40-42b6-bbd1-4e222fc8be12
    207470619_988118545286758_283514064184535152_n.jpg?_nc_cat=107&ccb=1-5&_nc_sid=843cd7&_nc_ohc=WifIeolUs4UAX8TTrMg&_nc_ht=scontent-ort2-1.xx&oh=4bcf8fd66d52f108192ed3b36d83b212&oe=61B40052

    treitz3 wrote: »
    Anyhoo, I went and researched into Rythmik subs and the one thing I noticed is that you do not hardly see them come up on the used market at all. When they do (or did) come up for sale, folks were either downsizing and getting rid of their gear, they were upgrading to another Rythmik sub or......well, I don't recall at the moment any other reason why folks would sell them, so those may have been the only two reasons I came across when I was in the market.

    So, I got in contact with the owner of Rythmik and ordered me 2 F-25's and they were delivered in time for an audio event where my system was featured at the time. They sounded incredible right out of the box and still do today. They are incredibly tight, yet very authoritative without breaking a sweat at the same time.
    I seldom see them for sale in the large metro Chi /Indy market. Early in the year I just missed out on a pair of F12SE for a steal of a price.


    2.2 Office Setup | LG 29UB55 21:9 UltraWide | HP Probook 630 G8 | Dell Latitude | Cabasse Stream Amp 100 | Boston Acoustics VS 240 | AUDIORAX Desk Stands | Mirage Omni S8 sub1 | Mirage Omni S8 Sub2
  • muncybob
    muncybob Posts: 2,939
    Never heard of a Genesis sub, but it is impressive looking.
    Yep, my name really is Bob.
    Parasound HCA1500A(indoor sound) and HCA1000(outdoor sound), Dynaco PAS4, Denon DP1200 w/Shure V15 Type V and Jico SAS stylus, Marantz UD7007, modded Polk SDA 2B, Rythmik L12 sub.
  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,472
    As a proud L12 owner, I am sure that you will love it. However, I don't believe it has speaker level connections, line-level input only:

    2k1tshhqeoig.png