Thinking of SVS

mrloren

Hello,

I currently have an HSU VTF3-M5, With money I've been saving I was thinking of jumping off HSU and going to SVS. For space I can only go so big. It will be either a PB3000 or a SB16.

Due to WAF I can't go much larger than my current sub. Nothing wrong with the VTF3 just looking for a little more slam and clean up the music a tad.

Wish I had space for a PB4000 or PB16. Neither of these will fit at all.

I am also thinking of PC4000, I've never heard a cylinder sub outside a car.

Emlyn

If I remember from previous views of your system the subwoofer placement in a confined area may have been an issue? Am I remembering right?

The cylinder subs are useful for limited floor space but they aren't high on WAF. Cats like them too.

rooftop59

mrloren wrote: »

Hello,

I currently have an HSU VTF3-M5, With money I've been saving I was thinking of jumping off HSU and going to SVS. For space I can only go so big. It will be either a PB3000 or a SB16.

Due to WAF I can't go much larger than my current sub. Nothing wrong with the VTF3 just looking for a little more slam and clean up the music a tad.

Wish I had space for a PB4000 or PB16. Neither of these will fit at all.

I am also thinking of PC4000, I've never heard a cylinder sub outside a car.

Caveat emptor: I have never owned a cylinder sub, but I have heard that they are better sound wise, but most people didn’t like the look.

I have owned SVS & HSU. In my mind HSU is a good step better for music, while SVS are ht first subs. The lack of high level inputs are almost all SVS is exhibit one...

mrloren

Yes that corner is very limited. No other place to put the sub. Need to meet WAF.


to Fit the SB16 I'd have to try and slide everything to the left a bit.

I have the HSU set at EQ2 4" port open Q @ 5.5. Works great. I have a window opening with funds the wife doesn't know about. Reason I am thinking of upgrade.

I was also thinking of going dual SB2000 or SB3000. that would shove the right speaker to where the sub is.

Emlyn

Looks like forward firing front ported on the HSU. My guess is a cylinder may perform better there. The room gain/bass boost would be quite high there but the downfiring driver could be better.

Kex

Are down-firing subs considered to have a higher WAF?

I would think that moving the speaker to the right (where the sub is now) would be a very bad idea... 🤔

Emlyn

As long as the significant other is ok with guests asking why someone painted a water heater black and put in the living room, the WAF is good.

Kex

I meant the square box variety. 😉

Technically, they are just a wooden box, with an invisible driver underneath. No speaker cloth or driver visible from the front. I've even seen one that had a glass "table top". They don't seem very common, though, and I don't see any from either SVS or HSU.

WLDock

mrloren wrote: »

. Nothing wrong with the VTF3 just looking for a little more slam and clean up the music a tad.

Have you tried the the sub in sealed mode for music? Have you though about adding a second sub stacked for more slam? (sealed) music and (ported) movies? The best of both worlds x 2. Something to think about.



Also, if you are willing to spend $1999 on the SB16 have you considered the $1869 Rythmik FV18?

mrloren

WLDock wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

. Nothing wrong with the VTF3 just looking for a little more slam and clean up the music a tad.

Have you tried the the sub in sealed mode for music? Have you though about adding a second sub stacked for more slam? (sealed) music and (ported) movies? The best of both worlds x 2. Something to think about.



Also, if you are willing to spend $1999 on the SB16 have you considered the $1869 Rythmik FV18?

Just too big.

Kex wrote: »

I meant the square box variety. 😉

Technically, they are just a wooden box, with an invisible driver underneath. No speaker cloth or driver visible from the front. I've even seen one that had a glass "table top". They don't seem very common, though, and I don't see any from either SVS or HSU.

My previous sub was a VTF2MK2 12" down firing sub. good sub. The VTF3MK5 is a lot better.

I agree a cylinder sub @ 47" would look like a water heater, I think it would be the same height as my 705's. If I stack another on top I think my wife would go nuts.

Like I said earlier, there is nothing wrong with my VTF3MK5 it actually sounds great. Movies are just insane and music is good too. When we got our house painted the contractor repaired a lot of stucco cracks on that wall.

I just have some extra cash my wife doesn't know about. I was just wondering if it would be a move up.

mrloren

I guess my big question or concern is would I like the SB16 over my VTF3. I would hate to have to get it setup and then say awe crud this sounds like yuck. @ 122lb the SB16 is a beast.

rooftop59

mrloren wrote: »

I guess my big question or concern is would I like the SB16 over my VTF3. I would hate to have to get it setup and then say awe crud this sounds like yuck. @ 122lb the SB16 is a beast.

Based just on measurements from several reviews It seems like a literal move at best and a waste of money imho...

ken brydson

SVS has a 45 day in home trial period with free shipping both ways. Try one and see...

mrloren

rooftop59 wrote: »

mrloren wrote: »

I guess my big question or concern is would I like the SB16 over my VTF3. I would hate to have to get it setup and then say awe crud this sounds like yuck. @ 122lb the SB16 is a beast.

Based just on measurements from several reviews It seems like a literal move at best and a waste of money imho...

Yeah your more on point. Most likely I'd be sitting there with a sore back thinking "gee there went that bonus check".

Other option I have is to add a 2nd VTF 3



Putting a sub in the circled area would not fly well with the wife. It would have to be wireless and fire right into the loveseat. Add in the rattles from all the nick nacks

msg

Loren, maybe I missed it, but what were your thoughts on Walt's idea to stack a second HSU? If that location's working well for you, placement wise, it seems stacking a second would be the way to go. You could still put your plant, Yoda and Shrek on top. Might seem a little massive though, I agree.

If you place another sub out in the middle of the room, you might end up with a can of worms with blending. I tried stereo subs recently, and one is closer to a corner, the other being more toward the middle. It's been tough to get it sounding right, but it was mostly okay before I went back to a single sub.

Without close back and side walls and diagonal placement for the second sub, you might end up with some strange low frequency performance. Could probably dial it a bit, but not sure it would get you the effect you want.

Emlyn

What's the floor construction in that room? Slab or suspended wood? If cracks in the stucco were caused by a subwoofer there, I'd actually think about going smaller and faster in a sealed box. There should be plenty of extra room gain from that location.

rooftop59

Do you use your receiver as the pre Loren? If you want to improve music, your best bet would be a good pre with HT bypass, or a DAC. Something from parasound, Musical fidelity, Wyred for sound, lots of options out there. Or an really good integrated with HT bypass (my MF a308 has that) and then use the two extra channels from your amp for surrounds.

The difference between using a receiver as a pre vs. a dedicated pre or good integrated is NOT subtle. Think the difference between the amps in your receiver and your external amp. Similar with a really good DAC...

mrloren

Emlyn wrote: »

What's the floor construction in that room? Slab or suspended wood? If cracks in the stucco were caused by a subwoofer there, I'd actually think about going smaller and faster in a sealed box. There should be plenty of extra room gain from that location.

I've had a sub in that corner for almost 20 years + the cheap SoCal construction is the reason for all the stucco cracks. Neighbor who doesn't have an HT had to have a wall re-stucco.

Yes it's on a slab

for a faster sealed box is why I was pondering the SB16 That is about the biggest I can go.

mrloren

msg wrote: »

Loren, maybe I missed it, but what were your thoughts on Walt's idea to stack a second HSU? If that location's working well for you, placement wise, it seems stacking a second would be the way to go. You could still put your plant, Yoda and Shrek on top. Might seem a little massive though, I agree.

If you place another sub out in the middle of the room, you might end up with a can of worms with blending. I tried stereo subs recently, and one is closer to a corner, the other being more toward the middle. It's been tough to get it sounding right, but it was mostly okay before I went back to a single sub.

Without close back and side walls and diagonal placement for the second sub, you might end up with some strange low frequency performance. Could probably dial it a bit, but not sure it would get you the effect you want.

Stacking another VTF3 would bring it to over 50" might as well go with a water heater PC4000

I've already nixed the idea of putting one over by the sofa.

Getting the itch to upgrade the HT at this point is way to costly.

mrloren

rooftop59 wrote: »

Do you use your receiver as the pre Loren? If you want to improve music, your best bet would be a good pre with HT bypass, or a DAC. Something from parasound, Musical fidelity, Wyred for sound, lots of options out there. Or an really good integrated with HT bypass (my MF a308 has that) and then use the two extra channels from your amp for surrounds.

The difference between using a receiver as a pre vs. a dedicated pre or good integrated is NOT subtle. Think the difference between the amps in your receiver and your external amp. Similar with a really good DAC...

Yes I use the AVR as a Pre for the front 3. Surrounds and heights are driven off the AVR

I glanced at moving over to a pre-amp, that would blow out any budget I have. I would have to get more amps. I am limited to a 15a circuit.

I always think if I could get it any better. Guess not unless I drop $5k which is not in the budget.

rooftop59

mrloren wrote: »

rooftop59 wrote: »

Do you use your receiver as the pre Loren? If you want to improve music, your best bet would be a good pre with HT bypass, or a DAC. Something from parasound, Musical fidelity, Wyred for sound, lots of options out there. Or an really good integrated with HT bypass (my MF a308 has that) and then use the two extra channels from your amp for surrounds.

The difference between using a receiver as a pre vs. a dedicated pre or good integrated is NOT subtle. Think the difference between the amps in your receiver and your external amp. Similar with a really good DAC...

Yes I use the AVR as a Pre for the front 3. Surrounds and heights are driven off the AVR

I glanced at moving over to a pre-amp, that would blow out any budget I have. I would have to get more amps. I am limited to a 15a circuit.

I always think if I could get it any better. Guess not unless I drop $5k which is not in the budget.

Loren not an HT pre but a 2 channel pre with HT bypass or an integrated amp with HT bypass. You would still use your Avr for surround stuff. You could get one of those for what you are looking at spending on a sub.

mrloren

Darn it! Now I'm reading reviews on the water heater https://www.svsound.com/products/pc-4000

I need to just go watch a movie and forget this itch to upgrade.

Kex

I would never recommend making a decision like that based on reviews from other “people”. Caveat emptor, etc. etc... 😳

Sounds like far more trouble that it’s worth, since you already have a good sub. Isn’t there anything else you could treat yourself to? New speakers in the vehicle? A new head unit with better Bluetooth and CarPlay or Android Auto?

WLDock

mrloren wrote: »

Stacking another VTF3 would bring it to over 50" might as well go with a water heater PC4000

If you are already considering a 47" tall sub what's another 3"? If you sell the VTF3, you will take a loss and the PC4000 is $1799!

Could get another VTF3 for $928 shipped and stack it. Now you have two 15" 600 watt each sealed or ported subs loaded in the corner. Adjust the room correction to get things sounding as good as you can and your bass problems should be solved.

Then, could find a nice used, open box, new, etc. $500-$900 integrated also with HT bypass, or just use an input switcher and have improved stereo music playback. You would get the most for your money over buying a $1799-$1999 SVS sub.

Yamaha A-S801 - https://www.accessories4less.com/make-a-store/item/yamas801bl-rb/yamaha-a-s801-2-ch-x-100-watts-integrated-amplifier-w/built-in-dac-black/1.html

Musical Fidelity M2si - https://tmraudio.com/components/integrated-amplifiers/musical-fidelity-m2si-stereo-integrated-amplifier-silver-open-box-w-warranty/

Marantz PM7000N - https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649719606-marantz-pm7000n/

Musical Fidelity A3.2 - https://reverb.com/item/39561389-musical-fidelity-a3-2-dual-mono-integrated-amplifier

Cambridge Audio CXA-80 - https://www.usaudiomart.com/details/649726324-cambridge-audio-cxa80-integrated-amplifier-excellent/

Cambridge Audio CXA-61 - https://www.ebay.com/itm/154397123578?mkevt=1&mkcid=1&mkrid=711-53200-19255-0&campid=5338381866&toolid=10001&customid=24f0c558-9a5e-11eb-acb0-613236346366

Audiolab 6000A - (silver) https://hifiheaven.net/shop/Audiolab-6000A-Stereo-Integrated-Amp-Bluetooth-DAC-Silver-Open-Box?language=en&currency=USD&gclid=Cj0KCQjwmcWDBhCOARIsALgJ2QdhZmLKNHcLCWS0l_dQgWF4Zi03JddwkB9AOERWBybzwCdxph2aX8MaAho6EALw_wcB

(black) https://www.ebay.com/itm/Audiolab-6000A-2-Channel-Integrated-Amplifier/174701104897?hash=item28acff4f01:g:A6cAAOSwXW9gWfSg

WLDock

Here's a Wyred-4-sound integrated in the for sale section: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/193975/fs-wyred-4-sound-sti-500-integrated-amplifier#latest

mrloren

We just did some major couch potato, 47 Ronin and the new Falcon winter soldier thing. Watched the first 5 minutes of "Edge of Tomorrow". sub is great.

Having two VTF3 stacked would just look way too funky. The PC-4000 would probably look better but would it perform better than the VTF3? SB16 would be a tight fit, once again would it really be an upgrade worth it?

I have the upgrade bug, was thinking of sub but now I don't know. Not enough for an A31 or A52+, Maybe look at a SR8012.

Gardenstater

Have you considered a UPOCC 12awg power cord with high quality copper (maybe UPOCC also) IEC and wall plugs? A friend brought over his DIY one of his own construction and I was shocked that it actually was anything but subtle. I currently have a 6ft. 14awg basic cord from Monoprice and that *should* be more than enough current capacity but his cord tightened everything up significantly. Paradoxically the bass was leaner but cleaner. I was tempted to turn the gain up a little since it was apparently less distortion, but I didn't want to upset my current setting. He took it with him when he left

rooftop59

WLDock wrote: »

Here's a Wyred-4-sound integrated in the for sale section: https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/193975/fs-wyred-4-sound-sti-500-integrated-amplifier#latest

Yep! If you want to dramatically improve your music SQ, this would be awesome! It would power you main speakers freeing up two channel for surrounds, and when you listen to two channel music you wouldn’t go through the AVR but rather through the integrated.

mrloren

Happy Saturday,

Just an update,

I've decided to go with a water heater if I do get a new sub. I think I've watched every video and read every review on the PC-4000. Now that is IF I do go for a new sub.

My wife was sleeping, I got board. I turned off the circuit for the Fridge and ran Audyssey. This time I did some thing different. After a normal Audyssey run I will pull out my phone and use the DB meter to check all speakers are the same.

This time when it came to sub rather that turn the AVR tone up 6db I turned the volume on the sub up. With volume set at -25 all speakers came in around 40db sub was at 32db. Hence why I crank the sub up on the AVR. Turning the volume on the sub up it self seams to come out a lot better than turning up the AVR. I did give it the Edge of Tomorrow test, oh my a lot better. U571 was great.

Another thing I did. I saw on a few review videos people put a towel under the center speaker. I did this this morning. Not night and day but it did sound a tad cleaner.

I really should get a DB meter.