Got some things on my mind.

mantis

here's how it goes,

I know that money is a hard thing to come by these days.Taking pride in ones system I respect deeply.Doing the best you can do with your budget is respectful but....

Why do I read about DIY built wire,cd players,sub's and such being flat out better then the companies that are in bussiness designing these very Items?I don't get it.

My next question is do you really believe that home made DIY products that cost alot less are far superior?I think some might get close to lesser products on the market but we as home owners in general don't have the nessary test equipment to built these products to perfection.

Taking parts from others and putting them together is cool,making your own and taking pride in what you did is cool,but lets all get real for a minute.

I also know everything in this hobby is opnion driven.But some of the comments I read just make me laugh.Reading comments about companies that are the very best of our hobbie like B&W,Krell and such.These products are classed as being amoung the very best of what our hobby has to offer.I mean I have read comments like"yeah I listened to Krell and B&W and I felt I needed to leave the room as it sucked so bad".Do these people truely believe this?Or is it some type of cool factor.You know the same person or type of persons making comments like this own low to mid line gear.thinking there gear is where it's at.Ok like I said taking personal pride in ones system I personal have alot of respect for,but saying your stuff is so much better then higher end stuff is pure bull.

People love this hobbie.they have to buy the type of gear they can afford.Somewhere they feel the need to bash higher end gear,talk about it cost way more then what it's worth,the comments are endless.But guess what????All gear is expensive to someone.Even budget gear like Onkyo,Yamaha,Denon and such seem expensive to people of a lesser wallet.All levels of gear have a place in the marketplace.....all of it.From Kenwood to Krell.

What I would like to see is more honest people talking about there experiences instead of the usual" PFFFFT my gear kills this "attitude.Is it that hard to admit that you have heard a system that is incredible?Something to look forward to maybe down the road if money comes your way?

How about some comments.Think your up to a honest debate or conversation???I'm game are you?

Dan

HBombToo

I look at the high end stuff as a "Gold Standard" that drives this hobby. Think about it... If we had no benchmark what would be the point. The never ending quest for good sound but does not bankrupt the family has a serious cool factor imho.

I also agree if you don't have the appropriate tools a home product could never really be compared outside the subjective. Now the subjective is what drives me crazy because it has been said that specs don't mean jack, that its all about the sound and I firmly disagree with that sentiment.

enough for now but I track this topic because I can see a lot of crazyness in the not to far distant future.

HBomb

VR3

Honestly...

B&W and Mcintosh are two of the most BORING sounding pieces of gear I have ever heard.

Honestly, Wilson Audio makes some seriously over priced pieces of gear. No questions asked -- when the X-1 sells for 87,000 new, and then 20,000 used...hehe dont think so bub

I have heard alot of good gear, but what I *honestly* find - is you spend alot to gain a little. That lil bit of detail and texture, a tad bit more of accuracy. To me, it's not worth it. I dont mind being half way or not even half way -- to a point, somethings are just pure insanity.

But hey, thats just me.

As for DIY -- depends if you know what you are doing. I have reconditioned some Pioneer speakers - and I am pretty dang sure they sound ALOT better than they did new. For one reason, I used better drivers. LoL...

I may not agree with alot of things companies do -- but I would rather stick to the pros...

gatemplin

Like you mention, I build things myself because of the pride in a job well done, and the experience learning about how things work. This is the same in all my hobbies, not just audio. I dont do it to save money though because DIY is often more expensive if you count tools and labour and time researching.

I dont know if most DIY stuff can compete with the best of commercial products in an area like amplifiers or loudspeakers when you consider the research and testing these companies do. The one area which you can best the commercial products is subwoofers. The reason for this is that the ideal box sub has a large well built enclosure for efficiency, uses large high excusion drivers, and suitably powerful amp. Most companies (except SVS) cut corners on subs to save costs and that is where you can beat them. For example, my sub used almost two whole 4X8 sheets of 3/4" MDF, plus the textured finish, 10 pound amp and 20 pound driver. The cost of shipping that would be enormous. Also almost no one would want to buy it. They want small cubes that can be hidden.

I can see where it would be hard to beat a manufacturer of an all-out performance piece of equipment like a Krell or Bryston amp, but on a sub, where all-out performance is often not priority number one, you can beat them with DIY.

F1nut

Originally posted by mantis
I have read comments like"yeah I listened to Krell and B&W and I felt I needed to leave the room as it sucked so bad".Do these people truely believe this?

Yes, I truely believe what I hear and I don't find either of those products very exciting.

You know the same person or type of persons making comments like this own low to mid line gear.

Ummmm, NO. I own high end gear.


Game on!

dragon1952

If you figure most of the cost of a product is labor, design, advertising, building/property/warehouse costs etc. (i.e. not parts) it makes sense that you could put together a better product, or at least an equal product for much less. You can buy better parts because you're saving on all that other stuff. Plus you can take your time and do it really gnats ****, i.e. more love and care.
I guess it also depends what your building. Amps and such would be more difficult for most of us, but speaker cables and interconnects are very easy.

pjdami

Well, I had a very revealing experience today. I heard a "reference" system I guess you could call it. I posted a thread over in the electronics forum.

As for DIY, I feel that some of the projects I have tackled aren't too shabby. I bought some prebuilt wire from cable companies and put on some audio grade plugs. Its not like I was twisting wire for hours braiding and such (as I have seen some do). DIY can sometimes prove to be better than stock (like with powercords). I agree that a DIY sub is very feasible as well. With companies like Adire Audio out there (among others) that offer drivers, amps, etc. all one has to do is design and build a box. The final product would have to be tested for performance and frequency response as well and most folks don't have the setup (maybe Doc does) to test out a sub in a professional manner. I'm talking subjectively and quantitatively but a DIY sub can be rewarding and come pretty close.

I was very impressed with Krell / Martin Logans today. It was really the first time I really ever sat down and listened to this combo. They also had B&W and Wilson Audio but I didn't listen to any of these. I really had enough excitement really.

Yep. Money is very hard to come by nowadays. Money must be spent wisely as bills are on the rise. The problem with this hobby is that demoing gear in a audioshop often may produce different results in one's house. Different speakers used, different sources, wire, the synergy you guys talk about. A weekend "takehome" demo is a great thing to have if possible. The salesman actually offered me to call him if I want to "in-home" demo the Krell KAV400xi integrated against my B&K stuff. I thought that was pretty cool of him.

jcaut

Well, Dan, are you wanting comments or a debate? If it's a debate, then I think you need to state your position a little more clearly, because I'm not sure what you're getting at. I gather that you're upset at people not being in awe of some of the "high end" products that you consider to be the best of the best. Are you saying that you think that there's no way a DIY'er could produce an equal product, just because there are companies in the business of designing and creating these products? Get ready, 'cause I'm about to shoot some holes in that theory.

Companies that make anything, whether it's Kenwood or Krell, are in business to make money. A high-end product is always going to be a lower-volume product, and therefore there needs to be more profit margin ON THAT product so that the manufacturer can still make money. High-end products are always "overpriced" because of this, unless the particular manufacturer makes enough on some things that they can afford to absorb a loss here and there. I'm betting Krell and B&W don't lose money on anything, though. That, in itself, opens the door for the DIY'er--- who's NOT in it to make money, only to produce a good product--- to do better for less. Now I'm not saying that anyone can do this with any item, but some things, sure. After all, if it were not for DIY'ers, would we have any of these companies that make high end audio gear? Most of them were STARTED by individuals, ---DIY'ers---, who felt that they could produce a better product than what was gererally available at the time. If they didn't succeed, they disappeared.

Some products would be hard for the average joe to produce, obviously. It's unreasonable to expect an individual to make a CD player, or even an amplifier from available parts, with no guidance. With other things it's easier: Speakers. Subwoofers, especially. Interconnects...
Here we're talking basically mature technology: No voodoo or magic involved. Buy good enough parts and you can put together something better than you can buy for the price of the components. Guess I should say, as long as you have the know-how and the time to do it.

I'm a die-hard do-it-yourselfer, both because it saves me money (which I have precious little of to spare) and because I get better stuff that way. I'm convinced that there's no way I could pay someone to do a better job than I can do myself, given something that I am actually able to do. I just finished completely rewiring, completely replacing the HVAC ducts, and almost completely re-plumbing the old house I bought --- BY MYSELF--- because I got sick of dealing with shoddy workmanship by those who had been paid to do this stuff in the past. Oops, got off-track...!

I build speakers for fun (not that I need any more). Now there's NO WAY I would claim that anything I've built is better than "X" (well maybe BOSE ), but the fun in it, for me, is making something decent without spending much money. I generally use buyout drivers: cheap parts, and see what I can do with them. I've got measuring equipment that's accurate, crossover-optimizer software that works, and If I chose to buy some high-dollar Scan-Speak drivers, I bet I could put together something that would be competitive with any commercial speaker you could buy for at least three times the cost of the components.

Or how about kits? Where do they fit in? Is that DIY? I've seen some pretty nice tube preamp kits. Very nice DIY speaker kits available.

Now, I might not know "high-end" if it fell out of a tree and hit me on the head. I do enjoy the audio hobby and I CAN hear and appreciate the difference in quality components, but I've never actually listened to a "high-end" system. I'm sure they're very nice!

Signing-off; Goodnight!
--Jason

organ

Here's the way I see it. When you're buying from a manufacturer, you're paying a LOT more than what the unit is worth. The money goes to the designer, builders, etc.

In some cases, DIY could be a lot better because you can build a component to have synergy with the rest of your system. You have the option of upgrading to higher quality parts. DIY projects have simple circuits which can be tweaked, modded, etc. This is why Bottlehead's "Foreplay" is so popular.

My tube amp was sold as a kit because I have the "Dynakit" version. I can easily upgrade, modify and change parts. I've done quite a bit of work on it. The amp was designed in the 50's and it's still going strong today.

Maurice

PolkWannabie

Mantis,

I think lots of folks tend to mush the concepts of

what's better i.e. more accurate ... and ...

what's better at some price point ...

into the same thing and state that ... something is better or my system rocks when what they really mean is no way am I paying $X for some product because it's only Y% better than the product I could have by paying $Z.

In the chain of ...

CD -> CD Player -> Interconnect -> Preamp -> Interconnect -> Amp -> Speaker Wire -> Speaker

there are eight variables any and all of which can affect what we hear and even if we leave out the CD for the moment and assume that there are only 10 great choices for CD Players, Interconnects, Preamps, Amps, Speaker Wire and Speakers that still leaves 10 ^ 6 combinations to try out, not one that any of us is likely to make our way through in our life time even if there weren't new products constantly coming into the market.

If the goal is to have the most accurate reproduction of the original recording than clearly some products in each of these categories are better at achieving this goal than others. However, what becomes confounding of course is that not all high end products work well with all other high end products and sometimes the higher you go the more noticeable this seems to be.

This is a peculiar hobby ... notice above I said ... IF the goal is ...

For some this is exactly what the goal is i.e. if it's a great recording then it should sound great on play back and if it's an awful recording then it should sound awful on play back.

For others the goal is probably best stated as I want to like what I hear regardless of how good, bad or indifferent the source material is.

This latter goal while admirable is at best difficult to achieve as it is like trying to hit a moving target in terms of the source material that is presented to the system the result of which is likely to be that great recordings sound ok (but not great) and terrible recordings sound ok (but not terrible). This I think MIGHT be classified as mid fi or in other words not a truly accurate reproduction of the recording but something that most "listeners" can live with.

I think this is why the pursuit of truly HI fi is a difficult and sometimes exasperating one as it's not just about finding the weakest link and swapping out that component it's about the combination of components and source material.

mantis

Debate or comments are your choice alone.

HbombToo,

Now the subjective is what drives me crazy because it has been said that specs don't mean jack, that its all about the sound and I firmly disagree with that sentiment.

What happens here is that most companies play the numbers game.It pisses me off sometimes.Why I would make the comment that "it's about the sound,not spec's" is when you find 2 products with Identical spec's but yield totally different sound quality.I judge products more on sound quality and performance then what the Spec's say.Knowing how to read spec's is golden.Finding the hidden ways to bend the truth is golden.

Vr3MxStyler2k3,

B&W and Mcintosh are two of the most BORING sounding pieces of gear I have ever heard.

OK why?What makes them so boring?DO you know that MacIntosh and B&W are the 2 most respected companies our hobby has to offer?Did you know that MacIntosh is the only gear company that can Increase it's value over time?MacIntosh has a colt following.
I feel you have not had a good demo of these products or just don't know good sound when you hear it.That might be alittle strong but it's how I feel when people make claims as this.I also feel these types of comments come from people that look at the price tag and go "WOW I could never afford that so it sucks".Nothing wrong with not being able to afford that kind of gear.Hell I can't but I still give respect where respect is due.
Here's how I could see it,B&W speakers are nice and sound really good,but for the same amount of money or even alittle less,I heard these speakers and I find them to do things better here and there.Can you follow that???B&W I'm sorry dude is one of the very best not by my opnion but by the Industry as well.They earned tat right.It doesn't mean you need to agree with that but I feel some respect is earned there.
Same with MacIntosh,dude they have made some of the very best sounding amps and preamps of all time.Today there older gear is more sought after then any other company in the world.Again rightfully so.Does this mean you can't find better stuff for the money??No way...remember this hobby is opnion driven but to say it's the most boring gear you ever heard is plainly a lie.Go listen to lower end gear of any kind and poorer reproduction of sound you will find my man.
I only ask you to reply with honesty and a reason why you feel the way you do,what you compared it to to make this decesion.Then I can repect your comment smore dude.

F1nut,
Ok I hear yeah but why?What did you find in order to make these types of comments?Again I feel it's the price tag,can we forget the price tag and talk about the experience for a minute?I personally have have thousands of demo's and I know there's good sounding gear out there.Some was very affordable like Rotel Totem etc and some was extreme way out of my price range like Krell Martin logan,etc.
You know I have opnions on some high end gear,better put any level of gear,but I have reasons for my comments as to what I experienced.I ask do you???

pjdami,
I find it so fun to get out there and demo gear.The experience alone is well worth the time invested.As you know you have Inspired me to DIY.

jcaut,
awesome response.To restate my position on this topic is that I understand how hard money is to come by these days.I feel the pressure of the economy each and every day.It's so hard to raise a family under the stress of today.This topic I bring to you is I want to cut out the bull and get deeper into our feelings and experience of any gear.DIY or what have you.I read comments like what I have posted and wonder where they come from.Thats what I'm looking for.Honest replies.
I also find nothing wrong with saying thing like "I feel for this price range,this is the best gear in it's class".Sure anything in a class can be the best for you.It has to work with the system you built.Best for that system I agree with,best in it's class I can also agree to a point with.Comments like "yeah this takes out everything up to 5 grand"and the product is only worth a grand so so is pure bull.
I just want to keep it real.I'm tired of all the comments that are so attitude driven.To me cool I don't see,it's the **** that shines.

PolkWannabie,
thats exactly what I'm wanting to get around.I feel we have a great group of guys in here where a discussion,debate can go on.

Here's another thing to kick around that I find common on most audio and video forums.Whatever gear a person owns,it's the be all end all and nothing else compares.I wonder if these people truley believe this from extensive demoing and research or is it the fact that they actually got into that gear and want the world to respect it??I'm not sure what some people think.What do you think?

Dan

PolkWannabie

I think no one wants to admit to having dropped a large chunk of change on anything but the best and most will defend that until the next component of group of components they purchase.

Whether it's individual components or groups of components or interconects or cables or techniques a la bi-wiring/amping imho the only way to OBJECTIVELY A/B is to not know what one is listening to. In the past I've found that this is usually best done by having a group of what everyone considers to be very good constants in the chain and then swapping the others.

For example have a few friends over with their toys and keep the CD(s), player, preamp, interconnects, speaker wire as constants and swap amps and speakers around to see what combinations go well together. With five participating people that yields 25 combinations which is not impossible to do but is still very time consuming to do right and yields very interesting results. However, one must still keep in mind that even these results are affected by the constants and by the environment.

PS ... There is no A in McIntosh ... unless we're talkin apples ...

brettw22

You can't argue something like this because not only is gear quality an opinion thing, but whose definition of "good sound" are we basing anything off of. Everything's subjective here.....

The reason that Sid (most likely) didn't like his B&W or McIntosh experience is because he's a freak to begin with. What he looks for in sound is going to be completely different from you, so while the build quality of those products should be appreciated, that doesn't mean that they're better for what he's looking to accomplish.

By no means should someone just roll over one day and say McInsosh is what I'm going to buy and regardless of how it sounds with the material I like, I'm going to have it.

This hobby has a lot of S&M built into it. Just ask ATC. I've had my RT16's for 7 years. Are there speakers out there that I might like better? Probably...... Am I unpleased with the sound coming out of my RT16's based on that possibility? HELL NO!!!!

I don't see the need to go out and torture myself over and over because what really is the point. I'm perfectly satisfied with my equipment, and have no desire to try and outshop myself on a weekly/monthly basis........

HBombToo

Originally posted by brettw22


This hobby has a lot of S&M built into it.

Amen!

HBomb

F1nut

Dan,

The price tag has nothing to do with my opinions, my listening experience at numerous true hi-fi shops, the even more numerous mid-fi shops, peoples houses and my own place are what I base my comments on. I can tell you this from my experience, price alone does not make for great hifi, nor does a "name."

I'll address the brand names mentioned by you and experienced by me. Krell has made some good amps, they have also made some dogs. Their amps are powerful, but also heavy on bass and a bit bright on the top end. B&W speakers are lifeless, actually some of the worst sounding speakers I have ever heard. Martin Logan sounds very good with classical/jazz music, not so good with rock/blues music.

As others have stated, it is possible to put together what most would consider a mid-fi system that sounds better than the most expensive pieces of gear to be found. Why is this? Various reasons, including personal tastes, room acoustics and most importantly, synergy. It's also possible to put together a true hi-fi set up that will knock most peoples socks off. The trick is to find the right pieces of gear in your price range that work for the music you like to listen to in your own room.

HBombToo

Originally posted by F1nut

It's also possible to put together a true hi-fi set up that will knock most peoples socks off. The trick is to find the right pieces of gear in your price range that work for the music you like to listen to in your own room.

BANG!!! and the nail has been hit.

1/4Twin

mantis

PolkWannabie,
waaaaaaaa I put that A in.My bad.Sounds like you had a cool **** demo going on there.Sweet.

ATC,

how much research, effort, and time have you put into any of the above? Perhaps you don’t get it because you have never taken the time to sit down and create a quality piece for yourself. I am not going to insult your intelligence by spelling it out - just think about it.

The only DIY things I have built are cables.I have built thousands and thousands of cables.With proper termination,building quality cables is easy.But I didn't design any of them.All of which was someones bulk wire,I just terminated it.I have yet to hear any of the DIY interconnects come close to the sonic abilities of what can be bought.I feel using rg59sd as a interconnect sucks.But as you know thats my opnion.

I notice a lot of audiophile’s caring just as much about the names they can spout off their tongues, than the actual sound in their room. B&W and Krell are classed in what I consider to be cliché products. You could say, owning such gear has a large “cool factor”.

I find that sad.Owning cool gear is well cool but at the end of the day does it sound the way you want???

I remember a certain man who preached the importance of synergy

Same rule applies and has nothing to do with what I'm talking about here.It does but not as much.You know when building a system I feel Snergy is the most inportnat part.Alot of people learn this over time as I did.

How does a high dollar, “high end” cliché product suddenly emerge as superior and sonically better in every circumstance?

This is not whats in question but can be asked of oneself.If one says it's not then there has to be reasons they they are not.Lets focus on that for a minute.

Is there a chance that someone with a cheap Jolida 301 integrated, audio note speakers, and a Toshiba player, truly feel (and maybe rightly so) that their system makes them much more content than a huge Krell amp/pre/cd and Beemer combo? Maybe everyone is not looking for the same type of sound you are, Dan. Call it “bull” all you wish.

I can't argue what makes people happy.Thats again personal.My problem is bashing high end gear.I'm totally not a fan of there price points.I find it outrageous,but I know good sound when I hear it.If a mid or even a low end system sounds great,whos to say it sucks?Because it's not COOL????A missed point here I feel.

Every time I hear some big Martin Logan’s, I sit in the chair thinking “one day…”. My hat off to anyone who feels they have reached the pinnacle of their audio systems. Perhaps you just reserve angst that they have already found what you have been always looking for - complete satisfaction in a good system. Perhaps it annoys you even further, that their system is not name-brand, expensive, or even to your tastes.

Let me spell this out to you.Expensive,name brand and to my tastes have nothing to do with this thead.Your point here is noted but saying It needs to be approved my me is flat out silly.

You still don't get it.My question remains somewhat unanswered,Why O why do people make the comments they make???
OK I wanna know why YOU make the comments YOU make about alot of the gear WE have talked about.You turn your nose up at so many good quality gear I almost think your trying to be cool somehow.I don't get you most of the time.I'll be honest back man,your 1/4 the reason I started this thead.Everything you seem to listen to or even have owned seem awesome one day then suck **** the next.I could understand this to a point as I have found products that I felt where the one for me and came to find out I was way off base.but this was over a long period of time.Not in a few short months.Musical Fidelity you based last time we talked and the time before that you where taken by there products.You say Krell sucks...my question is why??
Help me understand you.Your the exact type of person I'm referring to.I could go on and on about all the madness you told me.

Dan

madmax

My opinions change over time as I gain more experience and better my listening skills. As I try more and more gear my opinions change more often. My opinions change as my goals do also. When I think back there were several years when I wanted loud and powerful stuff. I stocked up with 10KW's of sound. I truely conquered loud. Just asked the neighbors who moved away out of fear. After that I found tubes and all of a sudden my goals changed. Things became live. Through the SDA's I was in the middle of a concert hall. Everything was perfect and stunning! As I upgraded my CD, phono and cables I found that the previous WOW factor of the sound went by the wayside. Now I can hear a lot of artificial sound effects on the recordings which sounded real on my lesser system. When I reach true audiophile status my opinions may change again.
madmax

pjdami

Sean,

don't you think you came out a little strong and defensive sounding in that reply above? I don't read what Dan wrote the way you did and why you turned defensive. I think he was asking why you turn on equipment as much as you do. I think you want to experience it for yourself in your environment and form your own opinion on equipment which entails going through gear. At the same time, you should perhaps try to settle on something for a while and just relax and enjoy the tunes. Better gear will come to you in the future as your opportunities and cash flow develop.

Dan,

Sean has been down on his luck lately. I think he deserves a break. I don't want to see this thread turn sour and I get along with both of you.

One thing I will say, I have found that I don't tend to bash gear or say it is bad too much in public. I feel that a demo in a store is only limited. One has to live with that gear for a while and form one's own opinion. A little experimentation is in order and unfortunately that means spending funds often not being able to get back what you put into it. But at least one has experienced this oneself and not vicariously.

One more thing about my HT system I have come to the conclusion that upgrading more than where I am now may be fruitless. My room acoustics with my ceramic tile and openings to other living areas makes for a tough environment to make sonically excellent. I have however, been on a quest to make it as good as I think it could get with the funds that I have. Room acoustics I am finding are so so important and often overlooked. I am learning more and more about it though.

brettw22

Originally posted by ATCVenom
But if that gear does NOT do what I want it to do – then it has to go. It does not take months to determine if something is for you or not.

I have a few ideas/suggestions.....

1. Don't tell people about your new gear until you've made up your final decision.

2. It took you a while to realize that the LSi line needed substantial time to break in. Either you're not doing it, or the naysayers of the forum aren't under the impression that you're giving the equipment that you go through the same time to prove itself.

Keyword of this topic: Subjective

mantis

ATC,
I'm sorry your sick of talking about it.Your opnions change more then most.Maybe you need a break or something.Cool off.You don't have to like anything I like dude.Thats what makes us all individuals.I respect your opnion but lately you seem cocky.It's like you changed or having a tough time somewhere.If my post seemed like I was attacking you,well I'm sorry for that.I just want to figure some things out.

As you already know the upgrade bug is here for me again.I have been working on the house and not really doing anything with my system other then some wire upgrades.Hell dude I still don't have a sub,can you believe that?And that bothers me.

My opnions like yours are my own.What you have to get threw your head is the Brands I like I don't expect anyone else to like.I share my findings and I enjoy helping others.I have done it for years.I don't start theads like this to get into pissing contests with anyone.As I asked the first time,I'm only looking for honest answers.Which I see you have a hard time answering.Thats fine man.We can talk later on IM,here or what have you.

As far as DIY goes,no I don't have a problem with it,I actually think it's cool.I have been Inspired to look into the powercord DIY projects from Paul.I also bought a Kimber Pk10 powercord.My experiences and customers you should back off.I have alot of experience putting together cables.more then anyone in this forum.I have built wire from Monster,Transparent,Beldon,Genisis,Liberity,Straight,Elan,USTECH,Etc.So your comments are mute there.

Paul,
It's cool man,ATC and I have our differnces but I'm not mad at him or anything like that.I just wanna understand where his comment some from.Thats all Bro,

Peace,
Dan

jcaut

I was half asleep and worn out from working on the above-mentioned house for 14 hours straight when I typed that response above. Had to read it again today to see if it still made sense to me. I guess it does.

Everyone who has responded to this has had some good ideas, and really it's made me think about some things that I probably wouldn't have otherwise.

Two quotes I can think of that really apply here:

"Those who don't know, don't know they don't know", and

"Whatever floats your boat..."

HBombToo

Originally posted by jcaut


"Those who don't know, don't know they don't know", and

my favorite:D

Twin

jcaut

Mine too. I put it on the bulletin board at work and everyone gets a kick out of it.

VR3

Dan,
You're CRAZY.

I'm not even gonna respond -- I dont know what sounds good to me because I dont like B&W and Mcintosh? What exactly are you smoking?

madmax

Actually MX, Dan is correct. That is not a put down. It's just that you do not have the experience yet. I have 30 years in it now and I can tell you I really became able to judge sound in a serious opinion free way about 15 years ago and seriously, I was into it as much as you are. Even at that I kept growing and can truely say that in the last 7 years I've grown the most in this area. That is just how it goes. It's not that you cannot hear properly, it just takes time to be truely open to all the aspects. You will get there sooner than I did just because of technical advances and because overall kids today grow up a little faster than they used to. One day you will agree this is true.
madmax

gidrah

McIntosh - Boring? Dang, mine must need to go into the shop then. Dynamic, lush and warm without sacrificing detail.

mantis

Mad,
I think you hit the nail on the head.It's just the lack of experience that brings these types of comments.I agree MX will get there alot faster then most of us older people.

I feel that way in general now about it,not just Mx.

pjdami

Agreed.

I think respect for other people's gear is always in order. And like Brett said earlier, take the time to make a final decision before posting on something. Know for sure that you have tried everything you can within reason to make that piece of gear sound as good as it can be. Exhaust it is what comes to mind.