Tubes, tubes and more tubes. What if…

I ran into an audio snag the other night. The volume out of the right channel is significantly less than the left. So I rotated another piece of gear into where the little trouble maker is and voila! problem gone. So the issue has been isolated to the first component

Representative from the audio company is suggesting I swap out the tubes, which obviously makes sense. But getting to all my connections behind the black boxes is always challenging (read pain in the arse). Also, since the tubes are not exposed (they’re inside the chassis) I was thinking, why not reverse the cables instead of having to perform surgery?
Sounds like a much easier solution, right?

The representative is telling me that this won’t necessarily tell me if there’s a tube problem
I disagree. What do you say?

Thanks guys n dolls!
Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
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Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
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Answers

  • michaeljhsda2michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,005
    Agree, reverse the cables.
    SDA SRS 1.2TL's
    SDA 1C's w/Clarity Cap ESA; PA, Mills, RD0194-1's
    SDA 2B TL's w/RD0198-1's
    Yaqin MC-30L integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367
    edited January 11
    Agree, reverse the cables.

    This solution would be sooo much better. Thanks

    I had this same exact issue a few months back. I swapped out the tubes, no improvement and ending up having to ship the unit back to CS
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,277
    DANG IT.....
    why do I feel baited and switched by the dang title....
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367
    pitdogg2 wrote: »
    DANG IT.....
    why do I feel baited and switched by the dang title....

    Nah, don’t.
    But maybe, if it was under the “what did you do to your stereo rig today” thread

    Actually, I was hoping you and Doc would chime in with your vast knowledge 😳
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,277
    edited January 11
    Doc has vast knowledge, I just have burnt synapses.
    Reverse the cables, can't hurt may not help.
    You have access to a tube tester?
    Dave still own one? Is he close?

    What tubes and gear are we talking about?
  • NightfallNightfall Posts: 9,502
    Dang. I was ready to buy some tubes. 😉
    afterburnt wrote: »
    They didn't speak a word of English, they were from South Carolina.

    Village Idiot of Club Polk
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367

    Reverse the cables, can't hurt may not help. … I was really hoping for a definitive answer

    You have access to a tube tester? Nope

    Dave still own one? Not sure

    Is he close? Yeah. But if it’s going back to CS, I’d like to ship it out today

    What tubes and gear are we talking about? DAC with ecc99 & 5963

    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • michaeljhsda2michaeljhsda2 Posts: 2,005
    edited January 11
    You could swap tubes and see if the problem follows to the other side....sounds like it needs to be shipped out, unless you have known good spare tubes to put in there.
    SDA SRS 1.2TL's
    SDA 1C's w/Clarity Cap ESA; PA, Mills, RD0194-1's
    SDA 2B TL's w/RD0198-1's
    Yaqin MC-30L integrated tube amp
    Yaqin MS-20L integrated tube amp
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367
    I was hoping to avoid that. But I guess it’s the only definitive way to know
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • pitdogg2pitdogg2 Posts: 18,277
    edited January 11
    Do you just have one of each tube Glenn?
    I find those 5963 tubes very lifeless and dull. I've tried RCA bronze plates and CBS gray plates, neither lasted long for me.
    They (5863/ecc99) are completely different tubes so unless you have two of each you really can't switch those between each other circuits.
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 27,366
    edited January 11
    So --
    GlennDog wrote: »
    I ran into an audio snag the other night. The volume out of the right channel is significantly less than the left. So I rotated another piece of gear into where the little trouble maker is and voila! problem gone. So the issue has been isolated to the first component

    So, without knowing what kind of "piece of gear" you rotated, it's a little hard to comment on your troubleshooting strategy in the abstract :|
    Won't stop me from trying, though. :#

    So - which cables do you propose to reverse? The ones going into the piece of gear you swapped out, or the ones that come out of it?

    If the former, and if the low level follows the input channel, the problem's upstream of your "piece of gear" -- but of course that wouldn't explain why swapping out the "piece of gear" leveled the two channels.

    If the latter, all it means is you will probably confirm which channel's low in your "piece of gear" -- which you already knew, right? You need to know why.

    ... unless, of course, you think the problem is with the cable itself -- in which case, I'd swap in a different pair of cables entirely and see what happens. B)
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367
    edited January 11
    The 99s are JJs input tubes and outputs are Philips JAN 5963. Two of each.

    Just swapped em around and equal vol from each channel! WTH?

    I suppose it’s an overheating issue and something in the circuit is partially opening??

    When this happened previously I was not informed of the corrective measures taken

    Now what do you guys think?
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • invalidinvalid Posts: 473
    GlennDog wrote: »
    The 99s are JJs input tubes and outputs are Philips JAN 5963. Two of each.

    Just swapped em around and equal vol from each channel! WTH?

    I suppose it’s an overheating issue and something in the circuit is partially opening??

    When this happened previously I was not informed of the corrective measures taken

    Now what do you guys think?

    Check your tube pins and tube sockets could just be a bad connection
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 27,366
    invalid wrote: »
    GlennDog wrote: »
    The 99s are JJs input tubes and outputs are Philips JAN 5963. Two of each.

    Just swapped em around and equal vol from each channel! WTH?

    I suppose it’s an overheating issue and something in the circuit is partially opening??

    When this happened previously I was not informed of the corrective measures taken

    Now what do you guys think?

    Check your tube pins and tube sockets could just be a bad connection

    A distinct possibility.

    In terms of things heating up and changing... well... it certainly happens... but if that's the problem, it will present itself over time. Did the lower output on one channel happen gradually (or suddenly, for that matter) after the component had been "on" for a while?

    If not... a component (resistor or capacitor, e.g.) breaking down when warm is not a likely culprit.

    If so -- the age-old troubleshooting tool for such problems is a can of "circuit chiller". Don't spray tubes! :o


    https://www.parts-express.com/max-pro-fr-777-777-freeze-spray-10-oz--341-460

    so... what kind of equipment are you having (perhaps intermittent) trouble with, @GlennDog ?
  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367
    It’s a new DAC with ecc99 input tubes & 5963 outputs. I picked up over this past summer.

    I experienced this identical anomaly with the lower volume on the right channel several months ago. CS had a hard time identifying the problem. Then I reminded them that I use balanced connections and they were able to locate the issue right away.

    Frustrating to say the least. I’m going to see how she works out with a couple of long listening sessions. Then I’ll reach out to CS to see what their thoughts are.

    Thanks Everyone!!
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
  • mhardy6647mhardy6647 Posts: 27,366
    edited January 11
    ahh, 5963 -- twin triode. A "computer tube" :)
    (meant to hold up to the demands of vacuum tube digital logic circuitry -- specifically to survive being held in "cutoff" operating conditions for long periods of time)

    https://jacmusic.com/techcorner/ARTICLES/English/Portraits/5963/index-5963-portrait.html

    I don't know squat 'bout the ECC99 -- "modern" (relatively speaking) twin triode.
    https://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/163/e/ECC899.pdf


    Could be an issue with the socket tension, or maybe poor or cold-solder joints at the socket(s). Some JJ tubes have been notorious for quality issues (not all, though).


  • GlennDogGlennDog Posts: 2,367
    edited January 11
    All 4 tubes are seated very positively. One might even say tight.

    Probably the nature of a brand new socket. Normally, during extraction I’ll wiggle or rotate the tube while pulling up… These are definitely tight

    Music’s been playing for 4 hours now and I must say, Eva Cassidy sounds intoxicating 😍

    btw, thanks for the links!
    Power Rogue M180 monos & Adcom GFA 5802
    PS Audio PerfectWave Power Plant 10
    Rears Salk SuperCharged Surrounds
    Source PSA PWT into NSD Supremo
    Pre/Pro Integra DHC 40.1
    LCD Samsung LN46B750
    Mains Salk HT2-TL
    Center Salk HT2C
    Pre Cary SLP-05
    Wires WW & MIT
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