Onks and Oinks

Oldwriter

Dinner and a homeowners' association board meeting kept me away from my beloved laptop - and the Polk Folk. Back home, and a bit overwhelmed by all of your responses to my humble ramblings.
For Gregure and Bikezappa - don't know your musical backgrounds, but if you both love Mahler, then you're my kind of people. Greg, especially - come on, give me a hint are you or were you a professional musician? LA orchestra member? Or a teacher? Your knowledge is broad and deep, my friend - and I learn something new from you every time you post re music.
OK - here's what's gonna happen this weekend: off with the gold plates and on with 12-gauge bridge cables on the speakers. Then, will go "back and forth" to see if my wife (probably) or I (maybe) can really hear any difference.
The Onkyo's appearance next week will, of course, precipitate a whole raft of tension-filled activity! New amp, new cables, new attitude? And hopefully, better, if not "new" sound.
In talking with my recording engineer friend in LA - he said that he recently re-wired his home system (full recording studio) with "Cobalt Cable." OK - he says it's great and affordable, so I'll check it out. As he has about $300,000 worth of digital and analog recording equip, I guess he should know. . .
I know you're all wondering about my equipment background, as I was a fine arts correspondent. Well, I bought Carver, Kef, B & W and Marantz stuff - then had either an engineer from WGN, or from our FM station - WFMT Chicago - come out and hook it all up, test it (and train me how NOT to blow it up). I got quite proficient at knob-twisting, but don't know a lot about the "guts" of the equipment. As "they" say: "I know what I like to hear."
Thanx again to all - for not letting me hang out here, spinning in the audiophile wind! Courage! Larry R

reeltrouble1

Naples is a beautiful little place offsetting the concrete of Miami, I have some family in Davie, so visit from time to time. Grew up in the Great City of Chicago and read the Trib religously. Love Michigan avenue, lakeshore drive the loop, ah the lost treasures of youth. GO BEARS

Began studying classical piano at age 11 stayed at it for about 10 years, picked up the guitar at 13, if only I had a little more talent.:rolleyes: did some Course Work at University of Illinois, Chicago Circle.

So do you play any instruments?

PolkThug

OldWriter,

I am a huge fan of the Home Depot 12 gauge wire. With a little bit of time and Monster quick locks you can make HD wire look very professional.

http://clubpolk.polkaudio.com/forum/showthread.php?s=&threadid=17892&highlight=ThugJumpers

Regards,
PolkThug

dragon1952

RE: the speaker wire test...Well if you try and pass this by some people on some forums they will adamantly tell you the test was biased and the only way to do this is with a double blind test. When you know what cable/wire you are hearing several biases can come into play. I must say I am a bit skeptical regarding this particular test. Also it would depend on what cable length the runs are.

Oldwriter

UR are right, Dragon - and all I can say is that, while I knew which wire was being tested, my wife (with much better hearing) did NOT. All she knew is that I was switching - or not switching, as happened once. She instantly picked up on the fact that the same wire was being tested.
OK - subjectivity reigns here - and one person's differences can be another person's "same-oh, same-oh" reaction.
This weekend I'm making - per many of you Polk Folk - short "jumper cables" from woofer to tweeter on the RTi6s. Will see if, as many of you claim, it makes any appreciable sonic differences. Hmmm. . . better not tell my wife ahead of time!
Well, the Onkyo is SOMEWHERE - but FedEx can't seem to find it at the moment. Left Spokane, WA - and that's it. Hoping that it's just a tracking glitch! Sigh.
Storm clouds looming, so I've gotta get out shopping - and getting one of those wunnerful free "Flaw-Duh" car washes!
Thanks for the posting(s) all. . . Larry R

Oldwriter

Yo - fine Polk Folk Friends - spent much of the early evening with fingers wrapped around liddle pieces of wire, and spades, and torch (ouch!) and shrinkwrap - and FINALLY got liddle wire-jumpers on the speakers. Sat down and had two glasses of "support juice."
Kicked on the stereo - and asked my wife to sit in on the "new and improved" sound. IF ANY. . .
Well, guyz-n-galz - if there is any difference neither one of us could say so - for sure. We THOUGHT the speakers sounded less tinny, and smoother. But as some of you so accurately stated, it could be all in our heads.
Will keep on truckin' with this stuff - all in readiness for the Onkyo Experience - probably Tuesday.
BTW - the RTi6s started sounding better today for some reason. They've been "run in" now for about 120 hours, and I understand that it helps? Any comments? More t-morrow.
Larry R

scottnbnj

Originally posted by Oldwriter
BTW - the RTi6s started sounding better today for some reason. They've been "run in" now for about 120 hours, and I understand that it helps? Any comments?

i can't say for rti's. with lsi9's, a few times the day after driving them hard, i noticed distinct differences on my reference cds.

i hadn't read about this happening to anyone else so i didn't expect it at all. i just happened to notice the pattern develop. of course, i have only noticed it happen once since manhattans have gone out of season.

)

Oldwriter

To scottnbj - well, friends, thank God I'm either a dry martini or Scotch drinker - and the heat doesn't seem to affect the "imbibation" of those mood-enhancers one bit! GRIN
This morning, I'm listening to a wonderful opera: Bellini's "Bianca and Fernando" - and, given my amp limitations, the speakers are sounding better than ever.
Well - now they've got 12-gauge wire to them - AND the same 12-gauge jumpers from "lo to hi" - though I've not taken the steps to bi-wire (yet?)
The Onkyo arrives probably Tuesday - and we'll see. Meanwhile, you might switch to a lighter form of medication? Helps speaker sound, fer shore!! Larry R

gregure

Larry,

Seeming as how bi-wiring is just connecting two sets of speaker wire from the same terminal, or using a cable with a bi-wired end, I don't think you would notice any difference from what you have now. You are basically bi-wiring with the speaker cable jumper. I wouldn't waste too much time exploring bi-wiring. The difference will be negligible. If you really want a new, better sound, you would probably have to spring for Monster M series cable (which is thicker than a garden hose), or the Silver Serpent cables from Bettercables.com, which is very expensive. The M series will set you back $300/pair, the Silver Serpents even more. Or, as many will tell you, the best sound is probably from having separate amps to run the drivers. I think given your financial limitations however, once you have the Onk you'll be doing just fine.

scottnbnj

Originally posted by Oldwriter
To scottnbj - well, friends, thank God I'm either a dry martini or Scotch drinker - and the heat doesn't seem to affect the "imbibation" of those mood-enhancers one bit! GRIN
The Onkyo arrives probably Tuesday - and we'll see. Meanwhile, you might switch to a lighter form of medication? Helps speaker sound, fer shore!!

hmmm, scotch, it's just the airing out the next day that i got tired of. it's sort of like garlic, respected, but, never the day before an important meeting. for the martini, i've never taken the time to seriously investigate the chemistry enough to know precisely what it is i like about it and what i don't.

for manhattan season, it's the heat *and* humidity that muddies the edges for me. i'll work one frosty unstirred slightly sweeter than perfect with finely filtered and crushed ice for,.. well,.. a long time. anyways, it just can't be done properly when it gets too sweaty too fast. there's still hope that air conditioning season will begin early though.

for my earlier admission, not the reason you guess. i'm a barbarian, i can't resist crunching ice chips in private. obviously so, i can't defend that this noisy environment could ~possibly~ account for my contested bi-wire results, nor that the ice, in such prolonged and close proximity to my ears(as they are so close to my teeth), ~could~ negatively impact my ability to hear more clearly defined silent areas surrounding vocals and instruments which narrowed and resonated with more sharply developed and textured edges. how !indeed! could anyone hear such nuance with frankunscarver mated to lsi while crunching near perfect ice chips? whatever.

ok, too much slathering about listening and tasting, not enough listening and tasting.

)

Oldwriter

. . . in a "crunch," so to speak! Hmmm. . . no wonder barbarians in the past have had such bad teeth - all smashed to bits by constant ice-chewing! GRIN
So send me a personal message or e-mail, and we can discuss finer points of listening/crushing, etc. Always look forward to new and interesting cyber-friends. Larry R

scottnbnj

Originally posted by Oldwriter
So send me a personal message or e-mail, and we can discuss finer points of listening/crushing, etc. Always look forward to new and interesting cyber-friends.

he hee heee, oddly enough i just noticed a 'what do you drink with your ht' thread in off topic. this is what it's really all about.

a great american philosopher once said to the effect 'it's not about having what you want, it's about wanting what you've got.'

it's too nice outside for this, i'm gonna go soak up some sun before it gets too hot to enjoy.

)

Oldwriter

. . . as I sit here listening to Renee Fleming's "The Beautiful Voice" all in pro logic II surround with my new Onkyo receiver powering my RTi6 speakers. Sigh. Eyes getting wet, the sound is so lovely and clean. Dynamic headroom: that's what I've been missing all these years!
Had a HARD afternoon re-doing all the wiring, etc., for the new receiver. Had to cut the back out of the cabinet - receiver is too deep to fit. SIGH.
Then had a problem - didn't have enough gold banana plugs to fit all the speaker wires. Sigh - finally found two pair in an odd box of picture-hangars! Huh? Anyway - got all the wires in place, with gold-plated AR bananas - and turned the receiver on.
NUTTING. Huh? Tried all sorts of things, but all I could hear was a sorta echo. Finally - FINALLY - determined that, with the Onkyo 701, you've gotta turn the volume WAY up just for normal listening!
Still can't get the darned remote programmed, so will work on that. Trying - that's the best I can say now - BUT the sound is much better - fuller, with much more mid-range.
Will post more trials and failures (grin) as I go along.
Away to try to program THE BEAST remote! Larry R

gregure

Larry,

I was just wondering when the hell you were going to get the new receiver. Sorry it was such a pain for you. I've wired and re-wired so much over the past few weeks, it almost seems like no big deal anymore. Almost. As for the volume, yeah, it's meant to allow for a lot more room to breathe at lower levels, whereas at higher volumes it goes up really fast. Like from 35-40 doesn't seem like too much increase, but 50-55 can be tremendously louder. I usually do music at between 50-55, and movies between 45-50. At least until I get a bigger place.
Not sure what you mean by "programming" the remote, but it is a bit of a beast.
I'm surprised you like PLII better. I've found the DTS Neo 6 to be a better fit for classical, especially when you program the mains to output the full signal, as opposed to subtracting away from them to booster the center channel. Do you have a sixth speaker for 6.1? That makes a big difference too. Good luck.

danger boy

is that the remote that came with the Onkyo? it should already be programmed. I never seen a remote that was not preprogrammed. move some switches.. the remote may have a learn or use setting. make sure it's not in learn.

Congrats on your new Onkyo receiver. i'm sure it sounds wonderful. so no more problems with distortion i assume?

Oldwriter

Well, the remote IS programmed for the receiver, but NOT for my JVC DVD or TV - and I've tried most of the afternoon to get them into the control - without success. All the codes in the instruction manual do nothing. Will try again tonight remote-to-remote programming - which is a real pain! Sigh.
distortion still there on the very loud strings and vocal passages, but nowhere near as bad as before.
The Onkyo sound is open and clean, if a bit on the cold side. I'm going to "burn it in" as I did with the speakers, and see if use makes any difference.
What I have determined is that my love of music overcomes the trials and problems of the equipment itself - and I try to just let the music roll on, great sound or not. However. . .
I'm one of those perfectionist-types. . . stress-city for me! Will post more as the Onk gets set into "home base." Larry R

PolkWannabie

IMHO the Onks make nice sound ... BUT ... they are no where near the level of performance of good separates ... BUT ... then neither is the price tag. I'm glad it sounds good to you even if it's not superb. Give the receiver and speakers time to break in and if necessary think about upgrading your interconnects if they aren't great or your CD player if it isn't great. Either or both of these may get you a whole lot closer to superb without spending a ton of money.

The volume control ( unless my 801 is different ) is user set up on a 0-100 scale or -99 dB to 0 dB but even in the first case is dB based and is therefore logarmithmic as opposed to lots of other receivers that have linear or arithmetic based scales.

On a linear scale 12 o'clock equates to half the max volume but on a dB scale 12 o'clock or 50 on a 0-100 scale or -51dB equates to about 0.0007% of total volume. IMHO this makes the volume control much more usable and is also more typical of how better equipment is designed.

Oldwriter

Yo - Rick - thanks for the posting - I always learn so much from you, and I thank you! Beginning to unravel all the knobs and tweakers on the 701 - and your posting makes me go back to the volume control, with settings for either absolute or relative values. Hmmm. . . will have to play wid dat a bit!
Finally had to program the remote head-to-head with my DVD remote - it simply wouldn't input with a code. Sigh. Long night! But now it works - and I LOVE the remote on the 701 - probably the same as the 801, which, if my catalog is correct, is different only in power and a couple of "extras."
As to my DVD - it's a brand new JVC model - not expensive, but got great reviews, and it's SO much better than my big old Sony. I'm sure that Krell makes a "slightly" better unit, however! GRIN
Will replace it this fall when I get the new SACD player - probably a Phillips. My first SACDs should arrive today - and will post reviews.
My interconnects, BTW, are top-line AR wires - not super-expensive, but very good. Also using gold-plated AR bananas on all speaker wire ends. (AR is same as Radio Shack - they make 'em for RS) Larry R

Willow

now that's what sounds good about now...... getting the ole bottle of tanqueray #10 or grey goose.....shaken.....pop in Liszt...les preludes !! ahh now that's relaxing

Oldwriter

U mean the Lone Ranger lives? Wellllll - dat was part of his wunnerful radio music - and will ALWAYS be to me. GRIN. Yep, you sure do know how to write colorful prose! Grey Goose, indeed! Sigh. Can only afford that when my artist-wife is out doing some sort of project in, say, Alberta, Canada! Hmmm. . .
But you are very correct - DO IT! BTW - was playing some of my new SACDs today - and even though I don't have a SACD player, the CD sound on the 2nd-level track is just great! Highly recommend to ANYBODY to buy SACDs now - ESPECIALLY if they're the "hybrid" ones. Be careful, though - some are "play on SACD players only" discs.
I learned that the hard way: just ordered and got a Cleveland Orch. SACD - and I THOUGHT it would play. Nope - the disc jacket said "SACD only," and wow, were they ever right! Sigh.
Courage! Larry R.

Pauly

Didnt read everyones thread just yours...Congrats..I have the 701 and am very pleased...
Enjoy

Spaz