Part Number for Lsi9 crossover circa 2004

Tony M

Man...you have a lot going on.

But stay on top of it all and you'll solve everything.

Can you borrow a power volt indicator piece from a friend like "Monster power surge thingy" that shows what's coming into your outlet?



or Panamax?

caryb

I dont Know. I will check Thanks. I have a multi meter. But limited capabilities.. Right now it is 126 -128 volts. But my Monster surge protector WHICH i HAD REPAIRED A WHILE BACK, was vibrating in my hand afetr last power surge. I unplugged it Reset after a few days. Using it now.. seems OK, but it might simply be an Extension cord now after the last hit. And this rental house, for the most part has no ground wires at outlets. An expert Electrician to rewire would be great...But that is not going to happen, here where I live. Probably need to look into some sort of power conditioner / surge protector7 [kick ****[ equipment ...

caryb

Vsat88 & TonyM. He Guys A lot has happened since December. I will not detail all of that, but will try to be short with a summary of where I am now. I found and bought four used Polkaudio Monitor series 2 speakers, here in Cozumel Mexico . The reason: to test the sound using my possibly faulty Pioneer receiver to see if I had the same bad sound with different speakers. Of the four used Studio 2 speakers, I was able to get two of them working well. The same bad sound was there , although somewhat intermittent. ( but almost always after playing music at a mid to moderately loud level for 30 minutes or more. After a long wait from ordering to delivery, my new Denon DRA-800H Network stereo receiver, arrived about two weeks ago. Designed for just stereo 2 speakers and a sub out.
So the sound is good. Actually "almost great". But not perfect... not as good, overall , as it was before. I will say that the Denon does produce a little richer sound and more bass. BUT, at lower volume levels, I am not impressed. At 50 to 55% and above most of the music comes alive. So, If I can find out , if a gent that has been recommended by a friend (musician), can buy correct parts, I will have him address, test and rebuild my crossovers. They are from 1984, so hopefully replacing old capacitors and whatever else may get me back to to where I wanna be. I don't know if there is such a thing as an original parts list for the LSI9 crossovers , but, if so, I would love to have that information for the repairman. Maybe he can just look at what I have and know what to order. I don't know. I know that there are different builds that have been discussed here in the forum, But if I can replace with the same or equivalent of the original, I would be happy. I loved the sound.

Any thoughts , from you Gurus ???

PS . By the way, Two electricians just finished fives days of work . Completely new wiring from the outside meter to my listening area with multiple outlets and a 3 meter long rod into the earth/rock. So , now, I have a very well grounded electrical supply. I decided not to repair my 17 year old Pioneer. My 3 year old computer was totally destroyed and not repairable. I replaced that as well.

F1nut

Using the "Direct" mode may help a bit, but you shouldn't expect much from a $550.00 receiver.

erniejade

Did you try the LSI9 again after you changed the receiver? On your old Pioneer, did you run the DSP on it? If so, it could be your getting used to a more natural sound of not running DSP. If you are looking to add more volume and oomph in the "live presence", since your receiver has a sub out on it, maybe try a good powered subwoofer on it. It might surprise you on what adding a Sub will do.

VSAT88

Man those Lsi speakers deserve great electronics in front of them. I love my Lsi 15's. Glad you are getting things together the way you want them. Your tech should be able to read the numbers on the crossovers without any trouble and get replacement parts ordered. Use higher voltage resistors for sure.

caryb

F1nut I don't think the $550 price tag has a lot to do with it . It has plenty of power to push the LSI9.. and the features are awesome! USB allows for gapless playback of high-resolution audio including 192kHz/24bit FLAC, WAV, ALAC and DSD 2.8/5.6MHz. 100W power per channel (8 ohm, 20Hz – 20kHz, THD: 0,07%, 2ch driven) and a setting for 4 ohm speakers . Not much difference between this $550 one or the $3000 one. I am in a 12 by 14 foot room and want only two channel stereo. It does have ports for two powered subs.. one is fine for my room .
I blew out two tweeters , a computer and my receiver with 3 huge power surges over a 10 day period. I think that the crossovers need serviced. Or . maybe something else is wrong with the speakers. .. Will know soon enough. Except this is a 2.1 amp can hook up a second zone. It has two amps. 7.2 has 7 amps 12.2 twelve amps.. that is where the $ adds up. The direct mode sounds pretty bad on most digital music. Stereo mode is just fine.. But will see after crossover upgrade or new speakers.
erniejade... I have had a Polk PSW404 powered sub for 17 years. You are correct ...it makes a huge difference.. Although , I will say the Denon without the sub is quite impressive with the bass output. I just feel that the crossovers may be bad.. I can turn up the volume , and depending on the recording , the sound is nice from 40 to 48 % (but no "goosebumps" Then at 49 to 56% there is a huge jump , increase in in sound quality. Almost like taking your fingers outta your ears ....lol. Then semi goosebumps... It could be that I still am learning the Denon.. I thought that it would be old school simple..left /right /sub . NOT !!! So many variables to change the sound. Been teekin for 2 weeks including speaaker placement and over $1000 in acoustic panels. I had a bass trap fall off the wall in an upper corner.. Wallahhh , instant improvement... It is just that I had 'ALL" the music" at moderate volume before my Pioneer **** the bed. Obliviously more ommmph at higher volumes , but the quality was good at lower volumes.

Vsat** thanks for all of your help and support along the way. Your input and trouble shooting suggestions helped keep to me going. As you know, I had no support and limited resources on this Caribbean island. You Rock !!

F1nut

All watts are not created equal and current matters more than wpc. FYI, even though it has a 4 ohm setting it's not rated to drive 4 ohm loads. All the setting does is save the receiver from cooking itself by reducing current. Not good.

You should have gone for a integrated amp with balls.

caryb

Ahhh thanks F1nut.. So, when I read and am told, that this reciever or maybe another, down the road is "ok", or rated for speakers starting at 4 ohms.. , How do I shift through the bull... ? And how much "current does my unit have/ produce at various levels ?.. Not enough ? And, should I leave the setting at 4 ohm when driving the LSI 9 ? or is the default 8, OK ?

F1nut

If a power source is rated to drive 4 ohm loads it will be listed in the specs like the 8 ohm rating is.

Determining current (amperes) capabilities isn't always easy, but if the wpc rating doubles from the 8 ohm rating (say 100 wpc) to the 4 ohm rating (200 wpc) it is definitely a high current amp. Your receiver is rated at 100 wpc @ 8 ohm and 120 wpc @ 6 ohms, so definitely not high current.

If you use the 8 ohm setting you run the risk of the receiver cooking itself. However, if you don't crank the volume up you might be ok. Just for testing, try the 8 ohm setting to see if the sound quality improves. If you leave it there I am not responsible for any of the magic smoke escaping.

VSAT88

caryb wrote: »

F1nut I don't think the $550 price tag has a lot to do with it . It has plenty of power to push the LSI9.. and the features are awesome! USB allows for gapless playback of high-resolution audio including 192kHz/24bit FLAC, WAV, ALAC and DSD 2.8/5.6MHz. 100W power per channel (8 ohm, 20Hz – 20kHz, THD: 0,07%, 2ch driven) and a setting for 4 ohm speakers . Not much difference between this $550 one or the $3000 one. I am in a 12 by 14 foot room and want only two channel stereo. It does have ports for two powered subs.. one is fine for my room .
I blew out two tweeters , a computer and my receiver with 3 huge power surges over a 10 day period. I think that the crossovers need serviced. Or . maybe something else is wrong with the speakers. .. Will know soon enough. Except this is a 2.1 amp can hook up a second zone. It has two amps. 7.2 has 7 amps 12.2 twelve amps.. that is where the $ adds up. The direct mode sounds pretty bad on most digital music. Stereo mode is just fine.. But will see after crossover upgrade or new speakers.
erniejade... I have had a Polk PSW404 powered sub for 17 years. You are correct ...it makes a huge difference.. Although , I will say the Denon without the sub is quite impressive with the bass output. I just feel that the crossovers may be bad.. I can turn up the volume , and depending on the recording , the sound is nice from 40 to 48 % (but no "goosebumps" Then at 49 to 56% there is a huge jump , increase in in sound quality. Almost like taking your fingers outta your ears ....lol. Then semi goosebumps... It could be that I still am learning the Denon.. I thought that it would be old school simple..left /right /sub . NOT !!! So many variables to change the sound. Been teekin for 2 weeks including speaaker placement and over $1000 in acoustic panels. I had a bass trap fall off the wall in an upper corner.. Wallahhh , instant improvement... It is just that I had 'ALL" the music" at moderate volume before my Pioneer **** the bed. Obliviously more ommmph at higher volumes , but the quality was good at lower volumes.

Vsat** thanks for all of your help and support along the way. Your input and trouble shooting suggestions helped keep to me going. As you know, I had no support and limited resources on this Caribbean island. You Rock !!

Thank you kindly. Any time.

dromunds

I think the bottom line is watch that volume dial

VSAT88

Another way I think to help determine higher current pretty easily for vintage stuff anyway. Higher voltage main filter capacitors. Look for 100v and up. If they say 50v or 63V a no go. Big cans that look the size of a beer can around. Quite possibly bigger or more than two, like four big filters. And look for huge transformers. Heavy equipment like 50 lbs or heavier for just an amplifier. Post here if you find something and I am sure someone will know or give a suggestion before you buy it.

caryb

F1nut wrote: »

If a power source is rated to drive 4 ohm loads it will be listed in the specs like the 8 ohm rating is.

Determining current (amperes) capabilities isn't always easy, but if the wpc rating doubles from the 8 ohm rating (say 100 wpc) to the 4 ohm rating (200 wpc) it is definitely a high current amp. Your receiver is rated at 100 wpc @ 8 ohm and 120 wpc @ 6 ohms, so definitely not high current.

If you use the 8 ohm setting you run the risk of the receiver cooking itself. However, if you don't crank the volume up you might be ok. Just for testing, try the 8 ohm setting to see if the sound quality improves. If you leave it there I am not responsible for any of the magic smoke escaping.

Thanks.. I I reset the Denon to 6 and 8 ohms.. In pure direct, direct and stereo.. I did not hear a noticible difference. As soon as "my guy", has time, I will have my crossovers rebuilt...and go from there /

VSAT88

Excellent. All that counts in the end is that you like the way it sounds and you are enjoying the system. I don't have the best gear in the world, neither do I have trash gear. I know how good a set of Dynaco A-25s can sound and how good a set of Polk SDA-SRS can sound too. Been messing around with stereo equipment for a few moons and I don't feel it's all about the $. A great sound is a great sound. Good to hear back from you. Until then, take care.

caryb

So after waiting 7 weeks for the elctronics guy to call me about my LSi9 crossovers, he tells me that all is good . ...in Spanish, here is the tranlation : Okay. Answer akabando with it. All is well in crossovers. All measurements at 100% test d audio same decibels there is no unevenness. Oscilloscope tested. Ceramic capacitors good. NP electrolytic capacitors. well. Good coupling resistors. Do you know if you want to replace them ??? It is at the discretion. I see no need. What do you think ??. These are 17 years old although for 7 years, had very little use. Should I replace anything on the crossover boards ? Long story , but after buying a new reciever, I was still not happy with sound... maybe the replacement tweeters that I purchased are not quite right ?????? THOUGHTS

F1nut

Your speakers will never perform at their best with that receiver. Again, you should have gone for a integrated amp with balls.

VSAT88

The fellow that posted above me has a battleship full of knowledge compared to my shot glass full. When rebuilding my personal speakers I use his suggestions. I have learned a lot since being here on Club Polk. When these guys say use an amp, I use an amp. You might wanna try an amp.

caryb

F1 nut. Now the Question is : How big do my balls need to be ? But Before I get to that , I do have some good news .
While waiting for my crossovers to be returned, I spent about 45 minutes on the phone with Denon support. Questions about my Denon DR800 H and how the sound was not to my likeing at low volumw and at aroud 50% the sound jumped up in volume quickly and not so great sound. Also, questions about adiing a power amp.
Anyway the tech said, lets look at all your settings and do some tests. AFTER CHANGING A SETTING OR TWO. WE WOULD LISTEN AT 50 % THEN 60 % .. EACH TIME i SAID NO NO T MUCH CHANGE... oops caps . Then , he siad at what level have you set your mute and also what is your max % volume set at . We deled both mute was now zero volume. He told me to vhanhe the mx from 80% to 100%. Test # 4 or 5 .. BINGO !!!!! My beloved Polk LSi9 speaker sound was back !!!......rich at low volume and great at higher volume. Wiyh that said , I think that at high volume I was pushing the max. So, Back to adding a power Amp. I am lookin g at some that are availble here in the $3000 range with 200wpc 8 ohm 320 4ohm Then there is a Marantz that is nearly $6000 with seperate outs for 8/6/4 ohm speakers suppling 150 w per channel... other amps around $5000 that are saying 300 to 500 wpc... Anyway , I prefer to stay around $3000. F1 nut, how big a "nut"/balls should I go for _? These are all 2 channel amps.... is all I need... VSAT88... Again, thanks for all of your support .the entire time ....

VSAT88

We won't stop till it's right brother !

caryb

I typed a long message last night , then edited one word and lost the entire comment.
So short version now. F1nut[, how big do my balls need to be ?... I'll get back to that .
While waiting for the return of my crossovers ( which were fine- no repair needed), I spoke with a Denon tech on the phone for about 30 minutes. I explained to hime that I was not happy with my soind at low volumes. (much of the music just not thereand my polk never had that problem with my Pioneer reciver for 16 years. Also that when turning up the volume, at about 50% the sound explods into high volume, that is a bit distorted. So we made adjustments . listened ... nope no better more adjustments nope... Then he asked if I had set a volume level for muting ... yes I had at 20 % " Turn it to zero".. then he asked if I had set a top limit. I had at 80% , so I would not make a mistake anfd turn it on at full power. He said disable that. Then he said go back to 40 then 50 then 60 % .. I did using my go to test music . BINGO !!!!!! MY sound and Polk speakers ARE BACK !!! The volume limiter has some sort of relative effect when activated that changes things in a bbad way. Along the way he had me change the Bass sub settings among others, so not sure which or the combination did the fix, but "Goosebumps"

Now that being said, the other discusion That I had was concerning the preouts for "zone 2" I wanted to be sure that buying and connecting a power amp was going to work. The sound is very good now , but at higher volume, I am pushing the limits

As well.. Reminder this is a 2 channel reciever with 2 pre sub wof outs .

F1nut I am looking at amps (well what I can get here in Mexico , with out tremdous wait times or customs issues). I want to keep it around $3000, but could go to $5000, if need be. I am considering a Acurus A2002 at about $3500 ( To get to Mexico ) and an AT 4002a bout $3100. They are each 200 watt x 2 channel amps. The next jump up to 400 or 500 watts is going to put me into the $5500 and up range...

I love the Denon due to all of the hook up options. My TV now sounds awesome.. I listen to mainly Spotify premium . I listen /watch music DVDS Netflix... Internet radio... An amp should put some icing on the cake.

F! nut: Suggestions on Ball size or on make/models of amps.

VSAT 88 THANK YOU FOR ALL OF YOUR SUPPORT ALONG THE WAY !!!! You Rock !n

F1nut

Interesting info about your Denon.

As I don't know what amps you can get other than the 2 you mentioned it's kind of difficult for me to suggest anything. Of the 2 you mentioned I'd go with the Acurus A2002.

VSAT88

I want an Acurus too.

caryb

Hello VSAT88 & F1.
It has been a while since here last and I appreciated all of your help trying to identify my dissatifaction with the sound of my Lsi9 speakers. Lots of history and time . Short story Bought a new reciever Denon DRA 800H Stereo reciever. Loved all the options to connect to many sources..Yada tad. Loved the sound - signature- detail, but not enough ummmph. (Balls as F!nut suggested early on)

So , I purchased An Acurus A2005. Interconnect L&R speaker out L&R. Short story . The dennon has Zone One which connects to spealers . but not to Amp. So, used Pre out for Zone 2. Played with that for a few weeks as not the best match up (compatibility ) . because in zone 2, lost the ability to adjust The sub woofer bass/ treble/ balance... yada yada . Sub was there , but no way to get it in phase and no way to adjust the levels. Ended up going out of the Amp into my Polk powered sub , then from sub out to speakers. Now I had control using the Polk sub. with built in crossover and adjust ments on the rear. Sound proof curtain room divider and lots of accoustic panels and moving my speakers just 6" more away from the walls and 12" closer to my face .. WOWWWWWW ! Awesome... Back in the saddle !!! Goosebumps.. no more fretting just total enjoyment. UNTIL Three days ago. It is rather cumbersome switching from TV or DVD or Spoyify to Netflix , to internet Radio... because Each time steps need to be taken to have Allzones on for volume control usinf the remote...

Anyway, I could not gety Netflix to play through my system .. I had it for 6 weeks, then gone. Short story after restting it multiple times with no luck , I learned that the Denon needed to be unplugeed and back again or rest to keep new settings.

I use my windows 10PC and Samsung to play Spotify on my system. 80% of my listening time.
Tv Remote was sitting on the dge holding down a couple of keys...
Well I had the Spotify artist displaying on TV but eerything I tried, got no sound...

I have a Wireless keyboard and saw that my Tv Remote was sitting on the edge of the keyboard holding down a couple of keys..which caused my commads to be corrupted. When I restarted Zone 2, the volume on my Spotify on the computer must have been maxxed out , even though my tv screen said 52%. THEN BOOOM... Ihit the off button within a second ( the exact same time as my Dennon went into shut down safety mode.. I was shaking from the shock of the blast, Unplugged everthing ... waited a bit... then listened... all good !.. I thought... then.. hmmmm not so good. Tweeters not putting out much if any sound... After many hours of tweeters in and out ..I have 3. testing, then taking apart 4 old Polk Monitor series two to get 2 wotking, I was not so sure it was the tweeters, but more likely the crossovers, or both. ( to be determined.). After many combinations of the monitor series 2 speakers and hooking up my tweeters the those crossovers ( not sure that they are great, I think that my tweeters might be OK... ..well I did get sound out of them.
So One Crossover out . Visual inspection... all looked good. But I will attach my terrible drawings and readings from each of the 10 caps/resistors with a multi meter. Time for a rebuild I think.... Need you to look at my results ..

Not so easy getting parts here in Mexico, and not sure that I want to practice my first rebuild on these. Never have soldered a circuit board, (other stuff yes), but dont want to try and pry off the glued down parts... and break the board,

So With out doing a super $300/$400 mod in parts, ( I would love that, but not with my only repair guy here speaking only Spanish). Maybe you guys can tell me me where to buy and get shipped to Mexico ...or other options.
Not too familar with the forum functions, but will attemot to attach my photos and readings .

la2vegas

Thanks for the photo album.

F1nut

Taking measurements of the components while in the circuit will not produce accurate results.

Anyway, visually I do not see a problem with your crossover, but since you have no reading for the 3 ohm/5 watt resistor that is likely bad. That resistor is in the tweeter circuit and would be the first component to blow. It should be replaced with a 3 ohm/10 watt resistor as Polk should have used a 10 watt to start with.

As for upgrading the crossover components with aftermarket parts, the caps will be MUCH larger and will not fit on the stock board. Let me find an example picture and I'll post a link to it.

F1nut

Here is one extreme example.
https://forum.polkaudio.com/discussion/182052/vr3-mods-lsi9-fortress-plus-crossovers

Here is one less extreme example where they more or less managed to get everything on the stock board.
https://audiokarma.org/forums/index.php?threads/polk-lsi9-crossover-burned-up.657667/

caryb

So. I will take the other crossover out when I get back home. So getting no reading on the resitor may not be valid because it is on the board ? . Assuming it is bad and I can find someione here to replace it with 3ohm 10 watt . DO I need to buy anything special.? I would like to try that first before hunting the world for tweters that will be / can be shipped here. And the other " readings" . IF i weree to replace the other componets with similar to original stock (except for the 10 watt resistor), is there any brand or type or class of caps etc. That I should tell a repairman here to use/ buy ?

F1nut

It should read something in the circuit, so it is likely bad.

Vishay Mills resistors are an excellent replacement. Replace the other resistor on the board as well.

Your current caps are a mix of mylar (yellow) and electrolytic (black). While mylar are considered to be film caps there are far better film/poly caps available. I have no idea who ships to Mexico, but good cap choices that can be affordable include Sonicap or Clarity.

VSAT88

What Jessie said ^. By the way, have you tried the simple stuff yet ? Like swapping the left for the right tweeter ? As far as I am concerned I threw my stock crossovers out. Built new ones on a board and mounted them inside the cabinet. Look below at what a low powered AVR will do to a resistor. They probably put that 5 watt in knowing it would act somewhat like a fuse for the ones that did not heed the advice of using a high current amplifier. That way they would sell the speakers to someone who knew what they were, they could fix them and use them accordingly. HA ! Either way believe it or not even that resistor had continuity so if your resistor does not. Once again refer to Jessie's post ^.