Potential Upgrade - Power Amp or Pre-Amp

dr1978
dr1978 Posts: 424
edited November 2020 in Electronics
I'm thinking of making an upgrade, but I'm not sure which piece to go after. I currently have a Marantz SR5011 serving as the pre-amp in my HT setup, with a B&K Ref 2220 powering my LSiM speakers.

Appreciate any thoughts on the following...

Which piece of equipment do you think would be a better upgrade; power or pre?

What suggestions do you have on which brand/model to target considering my other equipment?

Some caveats...

- Budget would be in the $750-$1k range

- If I were to go with a pre, it would have to include HT Bypass.

- If I went with a new power amp, I could probably stretch my budget because I would be selling the B&K.

- A power amp with 3 channels would be a bonus.

- This will be for my main/HT setup, but music is the priority, and I don't necessarily need exacting detail. I don't have the most critical ear.

- I'm sure I will be upgrading both eventually. I can live with a slight synergistic mismatch for now if I know that a future upgrade will put me back on the right path.


My thought based on what I've read is that I might see more benefit by moving away from an AVR as a pre. However, the idea of taking a decent size step up with a power amp right now is enticing.


Thanks for the help!
Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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Comments

  • monepolk
    monepolk Posts: 1,143
    I suggest getting a 2 channel pre with HT bypass.
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    Almost certainly a preamp would make a larger impact. Are you interested in tubes? Or want to keep it solid state?

    Parasound
    PS Audio
    Bel Canto
    Musical Fidelity
    NAD
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Preamp all day long and twice on Sunday.
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  • decal
    decal Posts: 3,205
    How about something like this?

    https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173250.msg1830547;topicseen#new
    If you can't hear a difference, don't waste your money.
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  • Clipdat
    Clipdat Posts: 12,949
    Used Parasound P6 also a solid choice.
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  • ZLTFUL
    ZLTFUL Posts: 5,651
    Hey @dr1978 sending you a PM with some thoughts.
    "Some people find it easier to be conceited rather than correct."

    "Unwad those panties and have a good time man. We're all here to help each other, no matter how it might appear." DSkip
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Thanks everyone for the quick replies. Confirms my thoughts about the most appropriate path being a preamp, but I still have that power amp itch.

    Hochpt - Yes, I would consider tubes for a preamp, but my thought has always been that I'd go that route down the road when I'm looking for something to experiment with.

    Clipdat - That is right in line with what I'm thinking. If I settle on a preamp that could be the one.

    Zltful - Thanks for the heads up, I'll be replying in a bit.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • hochpt21
    hochpt21 Posts: 5,423
    edited November 2020
    The power amp itch can be an ummm..powerful thing, but the one you have is actually a great amp.

    I would go tubes and don’t look back. If you have the budget for a 1k tube pre...that will be your biggest impact by far.
    2 ChannelTurntable - VPI Classic 2/Ortofon 2M BlueAmplification - Rogue Audio Cronus Magnum II, Parks Audio Budgie PhonoSpeakers - GoldenEar Triton 17.2 Home TheaterDenon AVR-X3300W; Rotel RMB-1066; Klipsch RP-280F's, Klipsch RP-450C, Polk FXi3's, Polk RC60i; Dual SVS PB 2000's; BenQ HT2050; Elite Screens 120"Man CaveTurntable - Pro-Ject 2.9 Wood/Grado GoldAmplification - Dared SL2000a, McCormack DNA 0.5 DeluxeCD: Cambridge AudioSpeakers - Wharfedale Linton 85th Anniversary; LSiM 703; SDA 2A
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,371
    hochpt21 wrote: »
    The power amp itch can be an ummm..powerful thing, but the one you have is actually a great amp.

    I would go tubes and don’t look back. If you have the budget for a 1k tube pre...that will be your biggest impact by far.

    Totally agree with this statement, tube preamps crush solid state unless you have a lot of money to spend.
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  • DaveHo
    DaveHo Posts: 3,534
    @dr1978 , I have a silver Parasound P5 I'll be letting go of. PM if interested.
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  • verb
    verb Posts: 10,176
    Pre amp! :)
    Basement: Polk SDA SRS 1.2tl's, Cary SLP-05 Pre with ultimate upgrade,McIntosh MCD301 CD/SACD player, Northstar Designs Excelsio DAC, Cambridge 851N streamer, McIntosh MC300 Amp, Silnote Morpheus Ref2, Series2 Digital Cables, Silnote Morpheus Ref2 Series2 XLR's, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Pangea Power Cables, MIT Shotgun S3 IC's, MIT Shotgun S1 Bi-Wire speaker cables
    Office: PC, EAR Acute CD Player, EAR 834L Pre, Northstar Designs Intenso DAC, Antique Sound Labs AV8 Monoblocks, Denon UDR-F10 Cassette, Acoustic Technologies Classic FR Speakers, SVS SB12 Plus sub, MIT AVt2 speaker cables, IFI Purifier2, AQ Cinnamon USB cable, Groneberg Quatro Reference IC's
    Spare Room: Dayens Ampino Integrated Amp, Tjoeb 99 tube CD player (modified Marantz CD-38), Analysis Plus Oval 9's, Zu Jumpers, AudioEngine B1 Streamer, Klipsch RB-61 v2, SVS PB1000 sub, Blue Jeans RCA IC's, Shunyata Hydra 8 Power Conditioner
    Living Room: Peachtree Nova Integrated, Cambridge CXN v2 Streamer, Rotel RCD-1072 CD player, Furman 15PFi Power Conditioner, Polk RT265 In Wall Speakers, Polk DSW Pro 660wi sub
    Garage #1: Cambridge Audio 640A Integrated Amp, Project Box-E BT Streamer, Polk Tsi200 Bookies, Douglas Speaker Cables, Shunyata Power Conditioner
    Garage #2: Cambridge Audio EVO150 Integrated Amplifier, Polk L200's, Analysis Plus Silver Oval 2 Speaker Cables, IC's TBD.
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,598
    I'd look seriously at a tube pre first. There are lots of tube preamps out there under $1,000 that would put to shame any solid state pre at the same price. Then speaker / interconnect cables.
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,902
    here's a rogue perseus magnum preamp with ht bypass for $995 over on audiocircle.
    https://www.audiocircle.com/index.php?topic=173250.msg1830547;topicseen#new
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Well.....I asked for advice and got a unanimous response on which direction to go, from a fine group of people at that, and...I do the exact opposite.

    I will soon be the owner of a McCormack HT-5 power amp. I don't doubt that I would see more immediate impact by adding a pre, but if I'm playing the long game, I think this purchase sets me up well for the future. I'm set on power for all five channels now and hopefully when I'm ready to make my next move I can up my budget for a nice tube pre.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,598
    Hope you like it. You might want to keep the B&k for a while to make sure...
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Ha, don't worry, keeping the B&k would be par for the course.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,894
    "A foolish consistency is the hobgoblin of little minds, adored by little statesmen and philosophers and divines."
    Ralph Waldo Emerson, Self Reliance

    B)

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  • dromunds
    dromunds Posts: 10,014
    One of my favorite authors.
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  • mhardy6647
    mhardy6647 Posts: 33,894
    dromunds wrote: »
    One of my favorite authors.

    yeah, mine too -- you can probably tell his writings had a pretty profound impact on my worldview :#
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    invalid wrote: »
    hochpt21 wrote: »
    The power amp itch can be an ummm..powerful thing, but the one you have is actually a great amp.

    I would go tubes and don’t look back. If you have the budget for a 1k tube pre...that will be your biggest impact by far.

    Totally agree with this statement, tube preamps crush solid state unless you have a lot of money to spend.

    Depends on what style of music you listen to. Tubes don’t always sound best. Distortion can ruin certain music.
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  • daboyz
    daboyz Posts: 5,207
    Damn nice Dared in the FM that would give you a taste of tubes. 🙂
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  • invalid
    invalid Posts: 1,371


    Depends on what style of music you listen to. Tubes don’t always sound best. Distortion can ruin certain music. [/quote]

    My tube preamp sounds better on all types of music than my solid state preamp did.
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  • joecoulson
    joecoulson Posts: 4,943
    Good for you.
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    daboyz wrote: »
    Damn nice Dared in the FM that would give you a taste of tubes. 🙂

    Man I am completely tapped out at the moment
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Well....the fantasy football gods were kind to me this year and I won my money league. Freed up enough funds to acquire a Belles 21A!

    I can't wait to try it out with both the B&K and McCormack. The new amp took some getting used to. I don't know what the terminology is...bright or forward or whatever...but it's definitely more in my face and at first it was a little off putting. But as my ears grew more accustomed to it, I started appreciating what I was hearing.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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  • audioluvr
    audioluvr Posts: 5,598
    Nice score! Congratulations!
    Gustard X26 Pro DAC
    Belles 21A Pre modded with Mundorf Supreme caps
    B&K M200 Sonata monoblocks refreshed and upgraded
    Polk SDA 1C's modded / 1000Va Dreadnaught
    Wireworld Silver Eclipse IC's and speaker cables
    Harman Kardon T65C w/Grado Gold. (Don't laugh. It sounds great!)

    There is about a 5% genetic difference between apes and men …but that difference is the difference between throwing your own poo when you are annoyed …and Einstein, Shakespeare and Miss January. by Dr. Sardonicus
    · Share on FacebookShare on Twitter
  • marvda1
    marvda1 Posts: 4,902
    edited January 2021
    @dr1978 make sure you use good quiet tubes in the belles.
    here's one you can try while it's cheap.
    https://upscaleaudio.com/collections/preamp-tubes/products/ge-12au7-6189w
    i bought a pair of radiotechnique 6189w when they were $60 ea. now they are $95 ea.
    Post edited by marvda1 on
    Amplifiers: Norma IPA 140, MasterSound Compact 845, Ayre v6xe, Consonance Cyber 800
    Preamp: deHavilland Ultraverve 3
    Dac: Sonnet Morpheus 2, Musical Paradise mp-d2 mkIII
    Transport: Jay's Audio CDT2 mk2, Lumin U1 mini
    Speakers: Rosso Fiorentino Volterra II
    Speaker Cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Organic Audio Organic Reference 2
    Interconnects: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2, Argento Organic Reference 2, Argento Organic 2
    Power Cables: Argento Organic Reference, Synergistic Research Foundation 10 and 12 ga.
    Digital cables: Crystal Clear Magnum Opus 2 bnc, Tellurium Q aes, Silnote Audio Poseidon Signature 2 bnc
    Puritan PSM156
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  • pitdogg2
    pitdogg2 Posts: 25,553
    Lots of good quiet 12au7 tubes or equivalents are to be had. A lot of the organ tubes are dirt cheap and quiet as they've been screened by both tube manufacturers and organ companies very well.

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  • dr1978
    dr1978 Posts: 424
    Thanks guys, I've got some work ahead of me.
    Pro-ject 2 Experience SB, OPPO BDP-103, Marantz SR5011, Lounge LCR MKIII, McCormack DNA-HT5, Polk LSiM705, Polk LSiM706C, Polk LSiM702, SVS SB16-Ultra
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